Would the Minister make a statement with respect to the College of Science?
ESTIMATES. - THE COLLEGE OF SCIENCE.
With regard to the College of Science, is the question touching upon when it will be open?
The point I wish to raise is, what change, if any, has taken place in the position since it was last discussed?
None that I am aware of. It is one of those matters which, in common with a great many things, can scarcely be said to be ripe for consideration until more normal conditions are restored. I think members generally are aware of the discovery that was made in that building by some of the officers of the State, and I am sure the members would not appreciate any immediate advance without notice. Some might not arrive there.
Is the cost of the building work that is going on there included in the estimates? Is the cost of the reconstruction in the College of Science included in these? There are charges upon the works in connection with the buildings or alterations in the College of Science and I am wondering whether that is included in these estimates?
That should be asked on the estimates for the Board of Works.
I wonder would it be in order, though I am not a Minister or attached to any special department of the Ministry, to say that Deputy Thrift and I had the advantage of being present when the Minister for Agriculture received a deputation from the College of Science staff. It consisted, amongst others, of the Dean of the staff and several Professors. There seems to be an impression abroad, if I might distinguish between the college as a building and the college as a living fabric, that the college is somehow dissatisfied with the results of negotiations on that occasion. Deputy Thrift will bear me out when I say that the staff was thoroughly satisfied. We have both received, though we did not expect it, votes of thanks from the staff, in which they acknowledge their satisfaction with the issue. The college as a corporate body continues to preserve its corporate existence. The Professors are paid their salaries, and if, in the interval between now and whatever time may ultimately elapse until they return to the buildings, or whatever may be the issue with regard to the use of the buildings, the Professors reaching the retiring age are to be dealt with precisely as if they were in occupation of the building. The students of the College of Science are under the direction and control of the Professors as heretofore. The buildings are not interfered with materially, nor a room taken over, without first consultation with the Dean of the Faculty and with his consent and approval. I think that is an accurate account of what took place, and the promise was made, to which the staff wholeheartedly assented, in fact, they seemed to welcome what was promised—the institution of a Commission of Inquiry to consider what part the Institute of Technology and a National Physical Laboratory should play in connection with the future Government, and the relations that should subsist between it and the other Universities. It is merely because some students are dissatisfied with the physical conditions under which they are obliged to pursue their studies, and in some cases because of the natural desire of youth for pranks and "rags," that the newspapers are filled with complaints, and the public are under the impression that the professorial staff are suffering from any dissatisfaction.
I would like to support what Professor Magennis has said very strongly. As I understand it, the staff of the College of Science were completely satisfied with the assurance given them by the Minister for Agriculture; both as to their own status and as to the intention on the part of the Government not to interfere with the building to any extent without consulting the staff. On the next point, as to the intention of the Government not to make any permanent changes in the College of Science without inquiry, that is the chief point, and I understood the staff were completely satisfied with the assurance given them. Of course, I am bound to admit that the work of the students is being conducted under great difficulty. Everyone recognises that. They are under a disadvantage to a certain extent, but, considering the situation, the other Universities are doing their very best to make up to the students in every way they can for being deprived temporarily of the College of Science. I think the Government can rest assured that the staff are satisfied and are not making any complaint. While I am on that, I would like to make a brief reference to a remark made by Deputy Figgis. He referred, of course, to some special case, no doubt, that will come under the consideration of the Government, but it is to the principles underlying his remarks that I wish directly to draw attention. Of course we are only beginning and therefore one does not expect to see ultimate elaboration after a first essay, but I hope the time will soon come when we shall see that money spent in developing the country, and spent in advancing science, not only in itself, but in its subsequent, application, will not be wasted money, but will be reproductive money, and that expenditure can be urged from motives of economy.
I was going to say that the Government should be grateful to Deputies Magennis and Thrift for coming to their aid. They seem to know more about the matter than the Government. I wonder could they inform us if the picturesque newspaper accounts that lorry loads of apparatus have been taken from the College of Science has any foundation of truth? We got an assurance from the Minister for Agriculture that the machinery and apparatus in the College would not be disturbed.
I would like to show the Deputy any day he wishes the machinery that is over there, and the difficulty there would be in transporting it anywhere else. I went through these offices some time ago. It was suggested to me to make Government Offices of the whole place. I was perfectly satisfied that was a task beyond the Board of Works or the present Government. The Minister for Agriculture is unwell to-day and I am a child in this matter. That is the reason I expect members opposite are not informed more fully with regard to it. I was unaware of this particular deputation that met Deputy Magennis and Deputy Thrift, but, as I understand the situation, there is no change in it, nor any alteration from the Government point of view. I expect, with the return of normal conditions, very little complaints will be made with regard to the action of the Government in this matter.
I would like to ask with regard to the point mentioned by Deputy Thrift whether the President would be willing, or whether he could see his way in the near future, to appoint some competent body to go over all the salaries paid to technical experts, to see that they are commensurate with the work we would require from them, and for their offices for the development of the country.
I have taken a note of all the points made by Deputy Figgis and Professor Thrift and I will put them before the Minister for Agriculture. I do not know if you were to add to the ordinary work by the operations of another Committee that it would make the position any happier than it is, or get any more done.
Motion made and question put: "That the Dáil in Committee, having considered the Estimates for Science and Art in 1922-23, and having passed a Vote on Account of £100,000 for the period to the 6th December, 1922, recommend that the full Estimate of £180,118 for the Financial Year, 1922-23, be adopted in due course by the Oireachtas."
Agreed.