Dáil Éireann debate -
Monday, 25 Jun 1923

Vol. 3 No. 33

COMMITTEE ON FINANCE. - NATIONAL HEALTH INSURANCE COMMISSION.

The PRESIDENT

I beg to move:: "That a sum not exceeding £239,068 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the charges which will come in course of payment in the year ending on 31st day of March, 1924, to pay the salaries and expenses of the Insurance Commission, and for Sundry Contributions and Grants in respect of the cost of Benefits and Expenses of Administration under the National Health Acts, 1911-21 (including certain grants-in-aid)." £109,595 had been already voted on account.

I might mention that the Insurance Bill passed through the Seanad this afternoon without any amendment, the amendments to which the Dáil took exception being removed. I expect that the Bill will become an Act this evening or to-morrow.

Mr. JOHNSON

I do not want to criticise this Vote in any way, but I think it well to voice what is a fairly wide desire amongst employed persons, that at the earliest possible date there should be an extension of the National Health Insurance system to include the proper provision of medical benefits. The Act, as it stands, is one which excludes from Ireland the medical benefit system which operates in Great Britain, and it was thought, at the time that Act was passed, that by that exclusion the desires of the Irish people were being met, and that the circumstances of this country did not require the medical benefit scheme. The information at my disposal, and the urging of many people in different parts of the country, show that they are distinctly in favour of the extension of the medical benefits to this country. While recognising that it would mean an increased contribution, it is believed that the advantage would be great and that it would more than compensate for the increased cost. I do not want to go into any details, but I do want to express that view, and put it before the Minister in the hope that he may convey it to the Commission who will, no doubt, be thinking of certain changes with a view to future legislation. I desire that point of view should be taken into account.

Mr. LYONS

There is just one point I would like to add to that made by Deputy Johnson. I think that in regard to a lot of the important society work of National Health Insurance there is a great want of efficiency. Some of the workers when they fall sick have to wait for six or eight weeks before they receive their benefits. If a worker is sick for a number of weeks he has to send a doctor's certificate each week at a cost of 2s. 6d. each time. He only receives 15s. per week altogether, so that when he pays 2s. 6d. out of that he has only 12s. 6d. left. That is not at all fair, considering that the employer, the employee and the State are each contributing towards this National Health Insurance Scheme. I do not think it at all fair that the employee should have to pay this sum per week, and although I do not wish to copy England in anything, I certainly would advocate following their example in this matter. I think we should adopt the principle that is in vogue there. Another thing I would like to bring before the members of the Dáil is that a lot of people in the country are remaining single simply because the Government are not coming to their assistance. I think the Government should come to their assistance under the Act, and that to every young man who may not be in very good circumstances they should give a bounty to start him in life. If you do that you would very soon find your register very much increased.

Mr. JOHNSTON

What about Income Tax?

Mr. LYONS

I certainly say so far as the workers are concerned, whether they have families or not, they will never be able to pay Income Tax on the wages they at present receive.

The PRESIDENT

I am sorry I could not give any undertaking with regard to the question raised by Deputy Johnson. Apart altogether from the question of time, I mean time for considering or introducing a Bill, this is one of those subjects that we have not had much time to consider, and we are not likely, I should say, in the immediate future to have much time for it. Possibly there may be later opportunities for considering it. I will, however, bring the matter to the notice of the Commissioners, but I am not very hopeful of any immediate results. With regard to Deputy Lyons' point, I am sorry that the Deputy is having his patriotism sapped, and that he wants to follow the example of somebody else. I wonder do they pay any bounties over there in England for marriages, or does he mean to pay bounties to young men, middle aged men or elderly men? I believe the Deputy is not correct in his statement about the payment for medical certificates, because last year a sum of over £50,000 was paid for medical certificates under the Act, and individual contributors are not liable for payment of these certificates. That is my information.

Mr. LYONS

I can supply the Minister with information from three workers in my own constituency who paid for these medical certificates.

The PRESIDENT

They must have got special ones, Deputy, I think.

Question put and agreed to.