I beg to raise the question of which I have given notice. It is to propose that all political prisoners and internees be afforded an opportunity to vote at the coming elections. I raise this matter for two reasons. The first is, that I have been requested by a very influential body to bring this question before the Dáil, a body that represents perhaps half the electorate of the country. That body is the Executive of the Irish Farmers' Union within the Saorstát, which met last week, and passed a resolution unanimously to that effect. The Executive demanded the right that all political prisoners, and those in internment camps, should be given the right to vote at the coming elections. The second reason is, that if those prisoners and internees are allowed to vote it will stop a lot of controversy, both before and after the election. We shall be told by many sections and many parties that if those internees and prisoners are not allowed to vote it will not be a free election. For that reason I would in press upon the Government the necessity of granting to these people the right to vote. If they are given that right it will certainly have the effect of stopping a lot of talk afterwards. If they are allowed to vote, no one can gainsay the fact that the election was a free and unfettered one, whereas if they are deprived of the right to vote, that will be used as a handle by many sides and sections to declare that the election was not a free and an unfettered one. I do not want to labour the question but I just wish to put these two points before the Government in favour of their allowing all political prisoners and internees the right to vote at the coming election. We are not making a very large demand; we are not asking for any releases or anything of that sort, but simply the right for these people to vote at the coming elections. I suppose many of them are untried and uncharged prisoners, and hence I think they should be allowed the right to vote.
QUESTION ON THE ADJOURNMENT. - UNTRIED PRISONERS AND THE FRANCHISE.
Mr. DOYLE
Aontuighim le Teachta Ó Dúbhghaill. Is dóigh liom go mba mhaith leis an chuid is mó de na daoiníbh san tír an guth a thabhairt do na daoiní ata i bpriosúin. Is í mo thuairim-sa go ndéanfadh sé maitheas do'n Togha, agus nach ndéanfadh sé aon dochair do'n Stát, da mbeadh cead ag na fir atá sa phriosúin guth no bhóta a thabhairt. Is dócha go bhfuil naoi míle fear i bpriosúin. B'féidir go mbeidh cuid de na daoinibh seo ag teacht amach roimh lá an Togha. Mar sin féin, beidh leith-sgeul ag na daoiní atá i n-agaidh an Rialtais agus deirfidh siad gur bhain an Rialtas an chirt seo ó na daoiní atá i bpriosúin.
I should like to support the point of view put forward by Deputy Doyle. There is, so far as I can ascertain—and I have been to some pains to out—a pretty general feeling in the country that prisoners and internees should be allowed to exercise their vote in the Election; that is of course those of them who have got votes. I do not suggest, and I do not think that Deputy Doyle suggests, that those who have not got votes should be allowed to exercise the right of voting. It is a desirable thing from every point of view that no excuse should be put in the hands of any section of people to create disturbance. It may be answered that the argument of an un-free election is all nonsense. On the other hand, depriving prisoners who have votes of the right of exercising them, will undoubtedly create a certain amount of bitter feeling, and feelings of bitterness have been dying down. We are accustomed to political somersaults of one kind or another—we have seen one or two within the last week—and should not be influenced by such things, but we should endeavour to take out of the hands of everybody the slightest excuse for disturbance at a time like this. Personally, I think that the number of prisoners who would be likely to exercise the vote would not be very great. Even if all the internees had votes and even if all of them exercised, or were allowed to exercise their votes, spread all over the country, they would not very materially affect the general issue of the election, or the issue in any particular Constituency. But the other and the bigger thing remains, that the giving of the right to exercise the vote would be a decent contribution to a clean, straight, open, and so far as it is possible in these times, peaceable Election. For that reason I support the point of view put forward by Deputy Doyle.
I rise to support the case made by Deputy Doyle and Deputy O'Shannon. I certainly think the Government ought to do everything that lies in its power to see that when the elections are over, nobody will be in a position to say that they were unrepresentative, or that the Dáil then elected was un-representative as a result of the prisoners being deprived of their votes. I certainly think that the interned men should be allowed this right. There is no Act so far that deprives interned, untried men of that right. Somebody might ask: How can they vote without getting out? Possibly some of them could vote on a temporary Postal Voters' List, prepared for this purpose. I make that suggestion to the Government. I do not think it is impossible. Therefore, I support the views put forward by the Deputies who have spoken, and I sincerely hope that by the time the elections are on, or if not, very shortly afterwards; the Government will find itself in the position that they will be able to say the condition of the country is such that they can release the majority of the prisoners.
The statement by Deputy Byrne rather suggests difficulties. I see quite clearly that there will be no possibility of meeting the points that have been raised, which I support emphatically, except by a one-clause Bill putting internees in the same position as soldiers; but I suggest there is a very much better way to meet the grievances, and that is release; not to wait until after the Elections, but to release before the elections. I think the demand that is made for the right to exercise the vote, which they have been conceded in the Constitution and through the Electoral Law, is one that they are perfectly right in demanding, not as a privilege and not as a matter of mercy, but as a right that has been given to them and which has not been taken away by any proved act of an unlawful character. I do not suppose that one constituency would be affected by the results, very few at any rate. Nevertheless, if we are going to encourage the idea that the vote is a matter of importance to the voter, and that he should look upon the vote as something valuable, as symbolic of civic responsibility, then I think we should take this opportunity of adding to the force of that lesson. I think that the plea that is put forward by Deputy Doyle is a reasonable one. If men and women must be interned and continue to be interned over the Elections, then they should be granted the opportunity of exercising their right. If that can only be done by a Bill, then a Bill ought to be brought in, and they ought to be given the opportunity to exercise the franchise by post. A much better method of meeting this grievance is a very general release.
This matter is not one of prime importance, and it is one which is at present being looked into. Deputy Doyle has said that he had two reasons for raising this matter. It seems to me, however, that his two reasons simply boil down into one. He says that he believes it would save controversy if some arrangement were made to enable the internees to vote, and that his Association thinks it would stop controversy. I think that is a bit optimistic. Some cause of complaint will be found by those people. Last year they made a great deal of fuss about the Register, although it was a sufficiently good Register to get the general opinion of the country. If arrangements are made for them to vote, no doubt they will complain that they were not allowed to speak to the people and to carry on their campaign, so that we will have the controversy anyhow. There is no question of depriving them of their right to vote. Those who are on the University Register and would normally vote on the postal register will certainly be allowed to vote, no matter what may eventually be done about the others. What is proposed actually is that we make special arrangements to allow those people to vote when otherwise they would not be allowed to vote by post. There is no real reason for that, except the desire to shut mouths. The ordinary prisoner who is convicted of a crime is not thereby disfranchised, unless it is an Electoral crime. But we do not put him on the Postal Voters List to enable him to vote. Even in the case of a man who is remanded, and who may be found not guilty and discharged, there is no provision to enable him to vote by post. It comes down to a question of whether it is worth while trying to stop controversy. A Bill would have to be introduced, and I do not think that it could be so simple a Bill as Deputy Johnson suggests. We cannot put them in the same position as soldiers. We cannot allow them to choose the constituency in which they would be registered. It can only be given to people whose names were on the Register for their own area. It simply means that they be struck off there and be put on the absent voters' list in that constituency, and that they would vote in respect of the area in which they had been first registered. It would also be necessary to make some provision about the carrying on of the vote. The law and the Constitution provide that the vote be by secret ballot. Anybody who knows these camps knows that unless certain provisions were made the voting would be far from anything in the nature of a secret ballot. We know very well the bullying that goes on inside camps, and that there would be no freedom for the individual. Consequently it would be necessary to have a Bill that would be more complex and more extended in character than a simple one-clause Bill, putting the internees in the same position as soldiers. The matter is under consideration at the moment.
The Dáil adjourned at 8.45 p.m. until 3 o'clock on Wednesday, 25th instant.