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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 25 Sep 1923

Vol. 5 No. 3

THE ADJOURNMENT. - ALLEGED INTERFERENCE WITH AUCTIONS IN COUNTY WICKLOW.

I very much regret, on an occasion like this, after the debate that we have had, that it falls to me to bring forward what I would consider to be one of these incidents in our lives which are ruining our credit and which, unless remedied very soon, will create a state of lawlessness which we very much wish to prevent. A Deputy of this Dáil, with about forty men and two red flags, entered on premises yesterday where a public auction was advertised, and there said that he would not permit any auction to take place, and that he accepted responsibility for his action when he was questioned by the sergeant of the police. Now, there is very little use in any Deputy taking an oath here that he will abide by the laws of the country if he immediately goes out and breaks these laws, and I put this to him, or to anyone else who would be inclined to act similarly, that a person in a responsible position, such as a Deputy of this Dáil, should be very careful in his actions, especially in regard to an action which in the past has been upheld, but which, in the future, if we are ever to get away from lawlessness, must be stopped. The question that arises in this case is a question of the rights of property. It affects the farmer and the landholder in connection with the very property which he holds, and if these men are allowed to carry on their campaign it would prevent him from handling his property in the way he desires.

The particular estate in question was being carried on by a steward, and, presumably, on account of the fall in the price of produce, it was not a paying concern. The owner, who resides in England, sent instructions to have the various employees disbanded or given notice to, to sell the implements and to let the place on the eleven months' system. That is the position. Now, I am not advocating the eleven months' system, but in certain cases where you cannot make your land pay the fullest opportunities of the law should be provided by which any man can act as he likes in his own best interests to make a living.

The second case was that of a poor widow with a few children. She was unable to make her land a paying proposition, and also endeavoured to let it. It was also refused. I contend that such actions as these are striking at the whole credit of the country, and we, on the Farmers' Benches, who uphold the right of the law, who are prepared to stand by our obligations as regards our rates, taxes and annuities —and the President has just paid a tribute to the way in which we are discharging these liabilities—ought to be afforded every opportunity to carry on our business how we like, and that these unauthorised attempts by Deputies who ought to know better, at nationalising our property ought to be stopped. I ask the Government to give an expression of their opinion and of the attitude they will adopt on similar occasions, and I hope it will be reasonable.

Mr. O'HIGGINS

At the moment I have received a report from the Civic Guard on only one of these two cases, and the position is this, that it may be that either or both of these cases will form the subject of a criminal prosecution. In that set of circumstances I have no wish to speak at length on the matter. One of the last Acts of the last Dáil was a Land Act, and we cannot allow a position to spring up in the country where every man would pass his own Land Act, so to speak. We passed another Act in the last Dáil called the Public Safety (Emergency Powers) Act, 1923. It may be that the excitement of the elections, and other recreations since the dissolution, have caused Deputies to forget many of its provisions. I draw the attention of Deputies to Sub-sections (2) and (3) of Section 5 of that Act. "Every person convicted by a Court of summary jurisdiction of any of the offences mentioned in Part II. of the Schedule to this Act, shall be sentenced to suffer imprisonment with hard labour for the term of 12 months, and to pay a fine of fifty pounds, and, in default of payment of such fine within one month after conviction, to suffer imprisonment with hard labour for a further term of six months, to be added to and commenced on the expiration of the said term of twelve months."

Sub-section 3 reads:—

"Every person found guilty on indictment of any of the offences mentioned in Part II. of the Schedule to this Act shall be sentenced either:

(a) To suffer penal servitude for a term not exceeding three years and to pay a fine of not more than one hundred pounds nor less than fifty pounds, and, in default of payment of such fine within one month after sentence, to suffer penal servitude for a further term of one year to be added to and commence on the expiration of the said term of three years; or

(b) To suffer imprisonment with hard labour for a term of not more than two years nor less than one year and to pay a fine of not more than one hundred pounds nor less than fifty pounds, and, in default of payment of such fine within one month after sentence, to suffer imprisonment with hard labour for a further term of six months to be added to and commence on the expiration of the first-mentioned term of imprisonment."

Paragraph 9 of Part II. of the Schedule reads:—"Interfering with or preventing, without lawful authority, the lawful occupation, use or enjoyment of any land or premises."

My hearing is not very good, but I understand that threats have been made across the floor here from Deputy to Deputy.

resumed the chair.

This, I think, is one of the most unfortunate incidents that has occurred since the late Election. This is not only an attack on a man's property, an attack on a farmer's property or a business man's property, but an attack on the liberty of every subject of this State. It is an attack on his citizenship. This attack led by a Deputy of this House is an encouragement to attack himself in return. We have here one case of a poor widow with 80 acres of land prevented from trying to make the best use of that land for the support of herself and her orphans by a man who is in receipt of £360 a year from the ratepayers of this country. What argument would he put up if a band of fellows came along and asked him to divide his £360 amongst them?

What about the 900 acres?

I am not talking about 900 acres, but about this particular case; this is an attack on the liberty of the individual.

I do not care about your threats.

They are not threats. If Deputies want threats and invite threats, if the law does not protect us and the people we represent, we will protect ourselves. Deputies can put that in their pipes and smoke it.

You are doing it in Waterford, where you are shooting labour men.

We will do it everywhere else. I do not want to make a speech or raise bitterness, but this is the most cowardly class of organised ruffianism I think I have ever heard of in my life—this attack on a widow and her orphans.

A lie. There was no attack, sir.

They came there and interfered with her liberty, and interfered with what every citizen is entitled to. It is the lowest class of organised ruffianism, and it is anything but a tribute to the men who took a part in it.

They will answer for their actions.

I take it after the case has been tried and decided that sentences will follow. The case has been tried and decided in the Dáil by one of the Deputies who have spoken and I take it the sentence will follow.

On a point of order, I must say Deputy Johnson has not given a proper version of the speech on the question. It has not been tried and decided in the Deputies' minds. It may have been tried and decided in one man's mind, but it has not been tried and decided in every man's mind.

The leader tried it.

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