I beg to move the adjournment of the Dáil. I believe there is no objection to the motion I am making. I cannot help thinking that we are not now in the right frame of mind to resume the discussion on the resolution of thanks to the Governor-General's Address. Even if we were to resume the debate we would only have a comparatively short time for it, so that I think that it is better we should not take it up now.
DÁIL IN COMMITTEE. - KIDNAPPING IN CO. CLARE.
I gave notice earlier that I would raise on the Motion for the Adjournment the question of the presence of armed brigands in the County Clare, and that I would refer to certain cases of kidnapping.
In doing so, I do not in the least wish to censure or indict the Minister for Home Affairs in any way whatever. We all understand the very difficult task he has had, and that he performed it in a very satisfactory manner. At the same time, I think cases like those I have in mind should be brought directly to his notice. It is atrocious that such a state of affairs should exist in any county, and what I ask is—that remedial measures be provided against a repetition of such occurrences in the future. Two distinct cases of kidnapping occurred. The first was that of Mrs. Crowe, of Moyreisk, who was taken forcibly from her home on 23rd September. This was a poor defenceless lady who was blindfolded and forced away from her home. She was taken along the bye-ways and had to walk a considerable distance, and at last was put in an insanitary hovel, where she was detained for some days. The reason for that, I understand, is that she was held to ransom, and that a sum of something like £400 was demanded for her. It was put up to herself personally, but she refused. A certain individual —I cannot give his name unfortunately, but in any case I had it from the Minister for Home Affairs in reply to a question—approached a solicitor in Ennis on the same subject. Surely this man who approached the solicitor is an accessory to this thing? There was a second case of kidnapping. The subsequent week eleven young men in that area were taken away by upwards of a score of masked and armed men in four motor cars and a lorry, and brought a considerable distance to Fenloe House, where they were subjected to very harsh and brutal treatment. I have placed in the hands of the Minister a statement which one of these men made to me. I did not solicit the statement. He came a considerable distance to ask me to intervene and prevent a recurrence of this sort of thing. The Minister, in reply to a question which I put this afternoon, said there was reason to suppose that they were English friends of Mrs. Crowe.
I did not state there was reason to suppose that they were English friends of Mrs. Crowe. I stated that they themselves announced that they were friends of Mrs. Crowe from England, which is a very different thing, the Deputy will agree.
Mr. HOGAN
I accept the correction. The attackers, he said, represented themselves as friends of Mrs. Crowe from England, and spoke with English accents. I ask: Can such a proposition as that be sustained? I do not think so. I do not think it is possible that Mrs. Crowe could procure friends from England. In any case how could they come armed or did they procure arms? How were they able to move round County Clare with immunity and never come in contact with State forces? There is something mysterious surely in their presence there, and they seem to have departed quite as mysteriously. It is true they left a very bad impression on the bodies of the persons they kidnapped. Did they leave no trace, no clue to disclose their identity? I do not want to be taken as standing up for this sort of thing. The sooner this country gets down to a law-abiding state the better. I am urging on the Minister to have exceptional steps taken to end this state of affairs. If there are two sets of criminals everyone must agree that they are native criminals, and that they did not come from abroad. The sooner they are forced to live as law-abiding citizens and that the country cannot be disturbed by their factious disputes, the better.
Mr. O'HIGGINS
There is nothing in the statement that the Deputy has made, nor in the typed statement which he has handed to me, that was not already at my disposal in reports from the Civic Guard Headquarters. I want to stress the fact that when this afternoon, in answer to a Question, I made a statement that these men announced they were friends of Mrs. Crowe from England, I was in no way endorsing or mentally accepting that statement. But it is true that that statement was made by the men, and it was relevant to the Question that was asked this afternoon.
resumed the Chair at this stage.
Mr. O'HIGGINS
Inquiries are proceeding in this case. I admit it is not a proper or normal state of affairs that an outrage of that kind could occur in a county with so little in the nature of evidence forthcoming afterwards, but we are dealing with the real rather than with the ideal. That is the fact. This outrage has occurred, and up to the present it has not been possible to bring definite evidence that would stand test in a court of law against any person or persons in connection with it. Many of these persons who were kidnapped are themselves reluctant to assist in any way in tracing the perpetrators of the outrages. The one statement that has been handed to me, while it is prolific in details as regards the injuries and insults offered to the kidnapped persons, is singularly lacking in helpful evidence. There is one name mentioned in connection with the affair, and in so far as that is helpful it will be followed up, and followed up in a very determined fashion.
Mr. HOGAN
Thank you.
Mr. O'HIGGINS
The Deputy ought not to confuse that vague thing called "common knowledge" with legal proof. There is a good deal of common knowledge throughout the country as to who the perpetrators of particular outrages are, or probably are, and yet, we cannot just hail a person before a court and say the whole countryside knows that it was he did such a thing. You have got to have legal proof. It was to meet such a situation that certain powers were asked for under the Public Safety Act. If we come to the conclusion that certain persons committed this outrage, if we are reasonably sure that they did so, then in the absence of evidence that would constitute legal proof, the powers that have been given by the Dáil to the Executive under the Public Safety Act will be used, and used to the full.
The Dáil adjourned at 6.55 p.m.