I beg to move amendment 1 to this Section: "To delete in line 32, the figures `31st,' and to substitute in lieu thereof the figures `21st.' "
DÁIL IN COMMITTEE. - DÁIL EIREANN LOANS AND FUNDS BILL, 1923. (THIRD STAGE.)
In this Act—
the expression "Internal Loan" means the loan floated under the authority of the First Dáil Eireann by public subscription during the years 1919 and 1920 and closed on the 17th day of July, 1920,
the expression "External Loans" means and includes the loan floated on and after the 21st day of January, 1920, under the authority of the First Dáil Eireann by public subscription in the United States of America and the loan floated on and after the 15th day of November, 1921, under the authority of the Second Dáil Eireann by public subscription in the United States of America,
the expression "the First Dáil Eireann" means the assembly of members of Parliament elected for constituencies in Ireland at a Parliamentary Election held on the 14th day of December, 1918, who first came together in a Parliament held on the 31st day of January, 1919, in the official residence of the Lord Mayor of Dublin called the Mansion House at Dublin, and there drew up and promulgated a provisional constitution for the said assembly as Dáil Eireann and Government of Saorstát Eireann,
the expression "the Second Dáil Eireann" means the assembly of members of Parliament elected for constituencies in Ireland at a Parliamentary Election held on the 13th day of May, 1921, who met as Dáil Eireann and Government of Saorstát Eireann in a Parliament held at Dublin in the Mansion House aforesaid on the 16th day of August, 1921, the expression "Minister" means the Minister for Finance.
Amendment put and agreed to.
I beg to move amendment 2 to this Section: "To add at the end of the Section the following words:—"The expression `subscriber' includes the personal representative of a deceased subscriber."
Amendment put and agreed to.
Question—"That Section 1, as amended, stand part of the Bill"—put and agreed to.
SECTION 2.
(1) All moneys, investments, and other property which immediately before the passing of this Act were vested in or were in the custody, possession, or control of the Dáil Eireann Trustees or any of them or any persons or person acting on behalf or under the authority of the Dáil Eireann Trustees or any of them, and were so vested or in such custody, possession, or control in trust for or on behalf of the Government of Saorstát Eireann, shall immediately after the passing of this Act be transferred to and become and be vested in the Minister, and all such conveyances, deeds, and other instruments as shall be necessary fully to effectuate such transfer shall, upon the request and at the cost of the Minister, be duly executed by the Dáil Eireann Trustees and all other necessary parties.
(2) All liabilities, expenses, and payments necessarily and properly incurred or made by the Dáil Eireann Trustees in or about the execution of their duty its such Trustees and not otherwise paid or discharged prior to the passing of this Act, and the costs and expenses of effectuating the transfer of property to the Minister under this section shall be paid or provided for by the Minister out of moneys to be provided by the Oireachtas.
(3) All moneys, investments, and other property transferred to the Minister by under this section shall be applied and disposed of in such manner as the Minister shall from time to time by order provide.
Every order made by the Minister under this sub-section shall be laid before each House of the Oireachtas as soon as may be after it is made, and if a resolution is passed by Dáil Eireann within the next subsequent twenty-one days on which Dáil Eireann has sat annulling such order, such order shall be annulled accordingly, but without prejudice to the validity of anything previously done under such order, and any recommendation in respect of such order which shall be made by Seanad Eireann within such twenty-one days shall be duly considered by Dáil Eireann.
(4) In this section the expression "the Dáil Eireann Trustees" means and includes all persons appointed by the First Dáil Eireann or by the Second Dáil Eireann to be trustees for Dáil Eireann as the Government of Saorstát Eireann as then constituted."
I beg to move amendment 3: "To insert in sub-section (2), line 5, immediately before the words `the Dáil,' the words or on behalf of.' "
This is merely a drafting amendment.
Amendment put and agreed to.
Question—"That Section 2, as amended, stand part of the Bill"—put and agreed to.
SECTION 3.
(1) All shares in the National Land Bank Limited now standing in the name of or otherwise vested in the Natland Auxiliary Society Limited, shall be transferred to and vest in the Minister, and all deeds of transfer and other instruments necessary to give effect to such transfer on the request and at the cost of the Minister, be executed by the Natland Auxiliary Society Limited and all other necessary parties.
(2) The Minister may exercise all or any of the rights and powers which may from time to time me be exercisable. by the holder of the shares transferred to him by this section, and where any of such rights or powers are exercisable by attorney the Minister may, if he so thinks proper, exercise such rights or powers by his attorney.
(3) All liabilities which may from time to time be imposed on or incurred by the Minister by reason of his being the holder of the shares aforesaid, shall be discharged by him out of moneys to be provided by the Oireachtas.
(4) The limitation contained in section 4 of the Industrial and Provident Societies Act, 1893, on the interest which may be had or claimed by one person in the shares of a society registered under that Act shall not apply to any interest in the shares of the National Land Bank Limited which shall be vested in or claimed by the Minister by virtue of this section.
I beg to move amendment 4: "To insert in sub-section (3), line 44, after the word `Minister,' the words `under this Section or."'
This is also a drafting amendment. The words proposed to be inserted are intended to refer to the words "at the cost of" in line 35.
Amendment put and agreed to.
Question—"That Section 3, as amended stand part of the Bill"— put and agreed to.
SECTION 4.
As soon as conveniently may be after the passing of this Act the Minister shall cause an authentic Register of subscribers to the Internal Loan to be prepared, and may take such steps as he shall consider to be necessary or proper for that purpose, including prescribing the conditions and evidence upon which any person claiming to be a subScriber to the Internal Loan may be entered in the Register.
I beg to move amendment 5, "To add a new sub-section as follows:—
(2)The decision of the Minister as to the claim of any person to be a subscriber to the Internal Loan or to be entered on the Register of shall be final."
Cases may arise in which there may be some doubt as to whether or not a person was a subscriber to the loan, and this amendment is to provide that someone should have the right to decide whether the person was or was not a subscriber. That is merely what the amendment is intended to cover.
Amendment put and agreed to.
Question:—"That Section 4, as amended stand part of the Bill"—put and agreed to.
SECTION 5..
(1) There shall be issued through the Post Office to every subscriber to the Internal Loan whose name is entered in the Register such subscribers prepared under this Act a savings certificate for a sum equal to the amount subscribed by such person to the Internal Loan, together with interest on that amount at the rate of five per cent. per annum from the 17th day of July, 1920, or such later date as the amount aforesaid was fully subscribed to the 31st day of December, 1923.
(2) Every savings certificate issued under this section shall entitle the holder thereof to be paid on the 1st day of June, 1927, the sum of twenty-four shillings for every pound of the sum for which the certificate was issued.
(3) All regulations for the time being in force in relation to savings certificates issued through the Post Office prior to the passing of this Act shall apply to savings certificates issued under this section, save that no part of the amount of a savings certificate issued under this section shall be payable before the 31st day of December, 1927, and that the consent of the Postmaster-General shall not be necessary to an assignment of any such savings certificate.
(4) The total amount payable on the 31st day of December, 1927, in respect of savings certificates issued. under this section and the expenses incurred in connection with the issue and payment of such savings certificates shall be charged on the Central Fund or the growing produce thereof.
I beg to move amendment 6:—"To delete sub-sections (1) and (2) and insert in lieu thereof one new sub-section as follows:—
(1) There shall be issued through the Post Office to every subscriber to the Internal Loan whose name is entered in the Register of such subscribers prepared under this Act a savings certificate which shall entitle the bolder thereof to be Paid on the 1st day of June, 1927, the sum of twenty-eight shillings for every pound subscribed by such subscriber.
The provisions of sub-section (1) of this Section would, in practice, involve an enormous amount of calculation, and the provisions proposed by the amendment will be simpler in practice and will give to the subscribers terms which are approximately given by the additional sub-section and fix the definite sum which will be payable.
Amendment put and agreed to.
I beg to move amendment 7 as follows:—
"In sub-section (3), page 4, line 7, to delete the figures "31st" and to substitute in lieu thereof the figure "1st," and in line 8 to delete the word "December" and substitute in lieu thereof the word "June.'
This is merely the correction of a date.
Amendment put and agreed to.
I beg to move amendment 8, as follows:—"In sub-section (4), page 4, line 11, to delete the words `31st day of December' and to insert in lieu thereof the words `1st day of June.' "
This is also the correction of a date.
Question: "That Section 5, as amended, stand part of the Bill"—put and agreed to.
SECTION 6.
(1) It shall be lawful for the Minister to take such steps as he shall think proper to ascertain the names and other particulars of all subscribers to the External Loans or either of them and the amounts subscribed by them respectively.
(2) The Minister may at any time issue to every subscriber to the External Loans or either of them a stock certificate for a sum equal to the amount so subscribed by him: Provided that the Minister may postpone the issue of stock certificates under this section until he is satisfied that all moneys subscribed to the External Loans or either of them and not duly accounted for have (so far as the same are recoverable) been paid into the Exchequer.
(3) The Minister may at any time redeem all or any of the stock certificates issued under this section either
(a) by paying to the holder thereof a sum equal to the nominal amount of the certificate together with interest on that amount at the rate of five per cent. per annum from the date on which the amount aforesaid was fully subscribed to the Loan to the date of redemption, or
(b) by purchasing such certificates for such price as the Minister shall think proper.
(4) The Minister may, subject to the provisions of this section, make regulations governing the issue, transfer devolution, and redemption of stock certificates issued under this section.
(5) There shall be charged on the Central Fund or the growing produce thereof such sum as shall be required to redeem in manner hereinbefore provided all stock certificates issued under this section and to meet the expenses in connection with the issue and redemption of such stock certificates.
I beg to move amendment 9:—"In Sub-Section (2), lines 22 to 27, to delete from and including the words `Provided that' to the end of the Sub-Section."
This is the deletion of a condition that was in the Bill as originally introduced. It proposes to take away that condition and it clarifies the person in reference to the External Loan. I think it is a very necessary amendment, in view of the fact that we are dealing with citizens of another State, and I think it is important that we should not put forward any conditions that might be calculated to injure us abroad.
Amendment put and agreed to.
Question: "That Section 6, as amended, stand part of the Bill"— put and agreed to.
SECTION 7.
(1) The Minister may borrow from any person and the Bank of Ireland may advance to the Minister any sum or sums not exceeding in the whole one million, two hundred and fifty thousand pounds to meet the sums charged on the Central Fund and the growing produce thereof by this Act, and for the purpose of such borrowing the Minister may create and issue securities bearing such rate of interest, and subject to such conditions as to repayment, redemption or otherwise as he shall think fit.
(2) The principal and interest of any securities issued under this Act and the expenses incurred in connection with the issue of such securities shall be charged on the Central Fund or the growing produce thereof.
(3) Amy money raised by securities issued under this Act shall be placed to the credit of the account of the Exchequer and shall form part of the Central Fund and be available in any manner in which such Fund is available.
I beg to move amendment 10, as follows:—"In sub-section (1), line 47, to delete the words `One million, two hundred and fifty thousand pounds' and to insert in lieu thereof the words `Two million, five hundred thousand pounds.' "
The sum proposed by the amendment is the amount that is now considered to be necessary to meet the expenditure under the Bill.
Amendment put and agreed to.
I beg to move amendment number 11:—"In sub-section (2) to delete the word `Act' and in lieu thereof to insert the word "Section.' "
This is merely a drafting amendment. The securities referred to are the securities issued under the sub-section of this particular Section, and, therefore, "Section" is a better word than the word "Act."
Amendment put and agreed to.
I beg to move amendment 12: "In sub-section (3), line 57, to delete the word `Act,' and in lieu thereof to insert the word `Section.' "
This amendment is identical with the last.
Amendment put and agreed to.
Question—"That Section 7, as amended, stand part of the Bill"— put and agreed to.
Question—"That the Title be the Title of the Bill"— put and agreed to.