Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 26 Mar 1924

Vol. 6 No. 31

COMMITTEE ON FINANCE. - SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES.

Mr. BLYTHE

I move—

"That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £2,000, be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1924, for Grants in Aid of the Expenses of University Institutions, including Grants under the Irish Universities Act, 1908, and the Land Act, 1923."

This Supplementary Estimate is required to provide for the grant of £3,000 to Trinity College under Section 15, Sub-section (2) of the Land Act, 1923. This grant takes the place of the annual grant of £5,000 hitherto paid under Section 39, Sub-section (1) of the Irish Land Act of 1903, out of the Irish Development Grant to the Public Trustee for the account of Trinity College to make good the loss of income to the College arising from redemption under the Land Purchase Acts of superior interests owned by the College. A thousand pounds of the £3,000 required is met by a saving under sub-head D of the Estimate. The non-recurrent, non-statutory grant to Trinity College would be £6,000, but only £5,000 of that has been issued, so that there is a saving of £1,000, and it is only necessary in the present case to vote £2,000 of the £3,000 provided under the Land Act.

Mr. O'CONNELL

Would the Minister explain how this saving has been effected; why the full sum of £6,000 has not been issued to Trinity College?

Mr. BLYTHE

It is part of the arrangement.

Question put and agreed to.

Mr. BLYTHE

I move:—

"That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £5,650, be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1924, for the salaries and expenses of the Ministry of Industry and Commerce, including Umpire and Courts of Reference, Contributions to the Unemployment Fund and to Special Schemes, Payments to Associations under the Unemployment Insurance Acts, for Advances to Workpeople under the Labour Exchanges Act, 1909, Fees and Expenses of Medical Referees under the Workmen's Compensation Act, 1906, Fees to Certifying Surgeons under the Factory and Workshops Act, 1909 and 1918, Fees and Expenses under the Electricity (Supply) Act, 1919, and the Gas Regulation Act, 1920; also expenses in connection with the International Labour Organisation (League of Nations), including a Grant in Aid."

When a Supplementary Estimate for the Ministry of Industry and Commerce recently circulated was prepared, it was anticipated by the Minister for Industry and Commerce that any expenditure in excess of the sum of £1,000 originally provided for the Dublin and Cork steamer which ran during the time the railways were out of action, would be met by savings on other sub-heads. Since that Estimate was prepared, an audit of the accounts of the Steamship Company has been made and has disclosed a net loss on working greater than was anticipated, and a revised estimate of the anticipated savings on the boat has also been furnished, from which it is clear that the expenditure cannot be reduced very much. In the revised Supplementary Estimate for £5,650 provision is taken for the total excess.

Mr. JOHNSON

I notice that the Minister's statement that the expectations that there would have been savings sufficient to avoid the additional sum are not likely to be obtained. I am wondering whether that is accounted for by the fact that they have spent more money than they intended on the Statistical Department, and if so whether it is intended that that work shall continue, and whether and when the public and the members of the Dáil are likely to see any fruits of that expenditure?

AN CEANN COMHAIRLE

Is there anything in the Vote about the Statistical Department?

Mr. BLYTHE

No.

Mr. JOHNSON

There is not in the Vote direct, but the resolution deals with sums required for salaries and expenses of the Ministry of Industry and Commerce.

AN CEANN COMHAIRLE

We have thrashed all this out before, and we have now to confine ourselves to the items in the Supplementary Estimates. I am afraid otherwise we could get on to the whole original estimate and talk it over again.

Major COOPER

Am I in order in raising a point on the travelling and incidental expenses of the International Labour Congress? We are voting money for that, and I want information about it. Who are the technical advisers and the delegates, and are the expenses of Deputy Hewat and Deputy Johnson paid on this Vote? And if so, were Deputy Hewat and Deputy Johnson forced to do such violence to their natures as to travel together, and was there any provision made to keep the peace between them?

Mr. JOHNSON

I invite the Minister to answer. I am glad Deputy Cooper has raised this question. Of course the technical advisers were paid for out of this Vote, and also the nominees of the Labour and Employers' Organisations, who are distinct from the technical advisers. But I want to say that in my opinion no better investment for the Ministry, and no more economical expenditure than this could be made. I believe as a matter of fact that there will be saved by the contribution to this International Labour Office very many times the amount required, and if Deputy Hewat were here I would ask him to confirm this view. The Organisation in Geneva of the International Labour Office is certainly done strictly according to the rules of economy. There is nothing lavish, but there is every sign of efficiency, accuracy, and comprehensiveness, and if Deputies representing organisations such as the Farmers' Organisation or Employers' Organisations wish to convince themselves of what I am saying and that they will spend a sum of, I think £10 per annum for copies of the various publications of the International Labour Office, they would find how valuable the work is that is done there, and how much information may be obtained there by the Government here that they would otherwise be obliged to collect and collate on their own account. For instance, though I am not speaking for the Ministry, Deputies representing the Farmers' Organisation can obtain full information from the International Labour Office as to the schemes that have been adopted, or the schemes that are proposed in every country in the world connected with agriculture, agricultural labour, and any matter is relating to the employers in agriculture, or workers employed in agriculture, and also matters dealing with the working peasant. Employers also will learn through the International Labour Office everything they wish to know about what is being done in America, China, Japan, Esthonia, or any other part of the world where there is any record available to be obtained. You can have it boiled down and translated into English and Irish if necessary. As a matter of fact recently I had sent to me from Geneva a description of the work of the International Labour Office in Irish, and I am quite certain that the Ministry here will be able to use, if they have not already used, this International Labour Office to obtain information which they could not obtain at anything like the cost from other countries, already collated, compared, and translated, so that I suggest to the Dáil that this Vote is very well worthy of acceptance, and it is very well expended money. Some people have criticised the International Labour Office. I had some doubts about its efficiency until I saw it at work. I am more than satisfied, I am highly pleased with the work that has been done and with the amount of information that is available for every organisation that requires to get that information. May I say that the Chief Assistant to the Secretary is an Irishman who originally came from the Co. Waterford.

Question put, and agreed to.