Before proceeding further, may I ask are we going right through the Order Paper according to the numbers?
DEFENCE FORCES (TEMPORARY PROVISIONS ACT, 1923 (CONTINUANCE AND AMENDMENT) BILL, 1924.—FIFTH STAGE.
We are not taking No. 11—the Intoxicating Liquor Bill—I take it?
No; not to-day.
Are we taking No. 3—Second Report of the Joint Committee on the Accommodation of the Oireachtas?
No; I will ask to postpone that also.
When is it proposed to take it?
On Thursday of next week. I am getting some estimates and hope to have them on Thursday.
In case we do not reach No. 11 at all to-day would it not be better to discharge the Order now and say when we will take it again, if that is decided? When would the Minister propose to take No. 11 again?
I would need to have some discussion with the President and the Executive Council. I think we may take it on Monday or Tuesday. I met this morning Deputies who have amendments down, and as a result of discussion a considerable number of amendments are being dropped. I think nearly twenty amendments have been dropped. There was a certain amount of overlapping.
Items Nos. 3 and 11 are not being taken to-day. We will proceed, then, with item No. 2.
I move that the Bill do now pass.
I want to refer to some remarks made by Deputy Johnson when the Bill was last before the Dáil. He made them in a disorderly manner, and as you, sir, ruled the discussion out of order, there was no reply. Of course I used the term "disorderly" in the technical sense. Deputy Johnson objected to the provision in the Bill that a soldier should not join any political society, because he said it was a hardship on the soldier not to have an opportunity of expressing his opinion on a matter like the alteration of the terms of his service, and the Deputy practically put forward the suggestion that the soldier should form and join a political society. That is what I understood. At any rate the suggestion which the Deputy made was that the soldier should have the opportunity of expressing his opinion on Bills of this character.
at this stage took the Chair.
Perhaps I might be allowed to correct that very wrong impression. I hope it is not general. I certainly had no suggestion to make that soldiers should be allowed to join and form political societies. I pointed out that inasmuch as soldiers were to be precluded from such, they would be unable to reach Deputies in the Dáil, who would be in a position to voice their complaints. I suggested that there should be allowed plenty of time between now and the permanent Bill for the soldiers' views as to regulations, and the effect of regulations to be made as well as for the views of the headquarter's staffs. They might be considered as well as those of the headquarter's staff and of the people responsible for the formation of orders and regulations and the like which are carried out in the Temporary Act. The Minister said then that the experience we had under the temporary Act would enable the Dáil and the Ministry to be more perfect in the presentation, shall I say, of the permanent Act, that not only would the experience of the headquarter's staff be available, but the experience of the men working under these conditions might be available. Not having a political society is it to be that they should have access and freedom to approach Deputies. The point was that there must be an opportunity provided for the men working under the temporary Act to be able to express their grievances or their contentment as well as the headquarter's staff.
I hope that I have helped Deputy Johnson in order to get his meaning clear. I read his speech and I did not gather that that was what he meant. Even so he did not indicate how the members of the ordinary rank and file are going to give expression to their opinions. I gather now that it is through Deputies, but that is forbidden by regulations. I do not believe the regulation is a good one. The soldier has political rights; he has a right to vote for Deputies, and I think he might be allowed to approach the Deputy who represents his own constituency. If the soldier does not approach a Deputy but complies with the order then his wife or his mother writes to a Deputy and there is very little difference except that sometimes we get a more inaccurate account of the case. Approaching a Deputy is, I agree, a better way for the soldier to express his opinion. What other way have any of us to express our opinions? One way is to write to the papers, another is to organise a political meeting. I am glad that Deputy Johnson has disabused my mind. I think if you had men organising public meetings in barracks and passing resolutions it very soon would result in passing resolutions denouncing particular officers. I am very glad that is not his view, because if it had been his view there would be no more discipline in the Army than there is in Dublin trades unions.
Question—"That the Bill do now pass"—put and agreed to.
The Bill has now passed the Dáil, and the Seanad will be informed accordingly.