Imagine him refusing to allow a half-bred Shorthorn into Co. Limerick on the ground that it was a breed or type unsuitable for the district. The thing is a farce. If language means anything, no Minister could do it, and if he did he could not stand over it for an hour. I would not like to be in the position of the Minister to this Dáil or to any other Dáil who decided that a half-bred Shorthorn, fulfilling the conditions, was unsuitable for Limerick or any other district, with one or two possible exceptions. Do not let us, for goodness sake, get back to the point that a Minister has power to refuse to allow a half-bred Shorthorn into Limerick or any of these other districts. That is absurd. He could not do it. We have power to say if a breed or type is unsuitable to a district. That is all. If that gives the power that is suggested to the Minister—well, I cannot argue the question any further.
To come back to the point: Is it right that we should be coerced into letting half-bred Shorthorns into any and every district in Ireland, even for the use of cows of individuals in the particular district? To come back to the County Limerick—I know it is a dangerous place to talk about—is it right that, in all circumstances, in the future, beef bulls or, if you like, dairy bulls should be allowed in unlimited numbers into that county? In five or ten years the organised farmers of that dairy district in Co. Limerick may say: "We will have to limit the amount of beef or the amount of dairy cattle in the district at the moment." Is the Department to have that power? That is just the right we want to safeguard. That is really all that it amounts to. In addition, there is a breeding district around Cahirciveen, in County Kerry. I am not referring to the whole of County Kerry, but to the Cahirciveen breeding district. All the cows there are beautiful Kerry cows. The Department of Agriculture encouraged their breeding there and that type was developed in every way, with the result that the whole of that district now— with individual exceptions—is confined to the Kerry type.
We may deal with individual exceptions by letting an individual who has a herd of half-bred Shorthorns get a half-bred Shorthorn bull for the use of his own herd. But take that district down there. These Kerry cows are in tremendous demand all over England, crushing out the Dexter and the Jersey. There are tremendous possibilities in the Kerry cow for a particular type of land and for particular conditions. These cows are extremely suitable for suburban people with a couple of acres, of land around the house. There is a very big trade in these Kerry cows. If a buyer comes from England to that district, he is certain, when he walks into a fair, that he will get the right stock. He will get a good Kerry cow. We can continue to develop on those lines. That is only one case. The resources of civilization are not exhausted. Perhaps we will branch out in other directions and nobody knows what the future will bring. Suppose a lot of farmers were bringing in dairy shorthorns or beef shorthorns and that a lot of cross-breds were amongst them. You would get in the first cross a very nice black Kerry cow. The next would show all the signs of the shorthorn, and the whole reputation of that district would go down. It is no longer a case of where a stock of particular type can be got. Should the Department of Agriculture be put in the position that they would simply have to look on at that? Are they to be put in such a position that even if the organised farmers of the district asked for it, they could not do anything in the way of refusing a licence?
Remember, that if half-bred Shorthorns are brought in for the service of cows of a particular farmer, or of a number of farmers, it is difficult to prevent them serving other cows. In cases like that it is extremely hard to get convictions. After a while, you notice that half the cattle down there have become cross-bred. Would it not be a terrible loss if the Department could not interfere in a case like that? That is all we require. Is it right that we should not have that power? That is the other side of the question. That contingency may never arise. But, on the other hand, it may. In a comparatively short period a bull will breed ten or fifteen or twenty calves, and when these breed the trouble can spread very rapidly. That may bring about serious consequences. Suppose that in County Limerick in five or ten years hence, the farmers thought that there should be fewer beef Shorthorns or dairy Shorthorns coming in, and that they were coming in large numbers, you would have no power to intervene. It is idle to say that you can regulate this by voluntary means. It is a contingency, perhaps, that is not likely to occur, but still it might occur. These are considerations that bear on this point as it appears to me and I put them before the Dáil to dispose of as they think fit. I have listened to Deputies on this question, and I do advocate the retention of the word "pure-bred." It only refers to these Shorthorns.
As regards the consultative council, it will not be a council of so many representatives from each county. There is no necessity for that. The council will be composed of farmers and perhaps a few farmer-breeders. Half of that council must be, and will be, from districts like Cork, Waterford, Limerick, Tipperary and that area. As regards referees, half of the referees must be from that big breeding district. Is there any doubt whatever that a council constituted like that is far better than a council constituted of so many representatives of each county? Equally, is there any doubt whatever that if the Department did any of the things which Deputies seem to be afraid of, that the position would be made impossible by such a consultative council. These are the real safeguards to farmers.
I hope we will hear the last of opposition to this Bill on the ground that it is regulation. It is regulation. Every organisation of farmers and every county committee of agriculture has called for regulation and has thereby given away the principle of individual liberty. Deputy Cooper got up and talked about State regulation, and used a lot of generalities. He said he would very much prefer persuasion. That is all very well. His observations were not addressed to any particular clause. They were simply thrown out with regard to the whole Bill. Deputy Cooper may be right and everybody else may be wrong, but what I do want Deputy Cooper to realise is that in bringing in this Bill and taking power to make regulations, we are not alone on one side, with all the sensible people, like Deputy Cooper, on the other. We have, on the side of regulation, every farmers' organisation, every county committee of agriculture, every organised body of farming opinion in the country. There is no use discussing the question of principle at this stage. I have listened to the debate, and I suggest that the word "pure-bred" be retained. I have tried to explain that the only difference it makes is that it gives us power to prevent an undue proportion of half-bred Shorthorns coming into Co. Kerry. It does not really affect the case of Limerick or Tipperary, and I think it should be retained. If the Dáil desires, I will define "pure-bred" by saying "entered in a prescribed herd-book."
