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Normal View

Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 22 Apr 1925

Vol. 11 No. 1

COMMITTEE ON FINANCE. - BUDGET STATEMENT.

In the past financial year disastrous weather conditions inflicted grave hardship and loss on the agricultural community in many parts of the country. Events such as the Army trouble, which occurred just before the commencement of the period and some of its sequels, did much to shake confidence and impede improvement in business conditions. The seriousness of the shock was evidenced very clearly by the fall in the quotation of the National Loan from 99 to 90; its long depression and slow recovery.

It is significant to find that in spite of adverse circumstances, the Exchequer returns on the whole disclose a reassuring position. We opened the present financial year with a debt of £13,360,353, made up as follows:—

National Loan outstanding

£9,760,859

Compensation Stock

501,850

Savings Certificates

1,175,700

Ways and Means Advances

1,719,000

Annuities under the Telegraph Acts

202,944

Against this is a figure of £1,223,700, representing advances which are repayable by the Unemployment Fund to the Exchequer.

The Exchequer balance on the 1st of the month was £1,681,192. Last year the comparable figures were:

Debt outstanding

£13,918,000

Due by the Unemployment Fund

877,700

Exchequer balance

3,395,000

If we deduct the Exchequer balance on 1st April of each year from the debt outstanding on the same date, we get a figure of £10,523,000 at the beginning of the last year against a figure of £11,679,161 at the beginning of the present year.

The yield of tax revenue during 1924-5 was £23,203,500. The yield estimated at the beginning of the year was £22,543,000.

The excess of £660,000 is more than accounted for by the fact that the income tax collection exceeded the estimate to the extent of £910,000. Stamps were £12,000 down, and death duties realised £138,000 less than the estimate. Corporation Profits Tax produced approximately the amount anticipated. Excise duties were £212,000 down on the estimate. The deficiency was entirely due to the shrinkage in the yield of the spirit duty, which fell short of the estimate by about £540,000. The beer duty more than came up to expectations, and gave no evidence that any decline is to be anticipated. The yield was £4,439,000, as compared with an estimate of £4,250,000.

The duties imposed on boots, candles, bottles and soap gave a revenue of £245,000 as compared with a loss of about £279,000 consequent on the reduction of the tea duty. The customs duty on motor cars and motor cycles produced £293,000 against an estimate of £240,000 and in actual income in the previous year of £256,000. The yield from sugar and sugar confectionery was £2,149,000, being £49,000 in excess of the estimate. The customs duty on tobacco produced about £40,000 less than was anticipated. Motor vehicle duties yielded £458,000, which is £108,000 more than the estimate.

It will be seen that not only has there been an unexpectedly large yield from income tax, but that with one exception the other staple sources of revenue have given very good results. The fall in the produce of the spirit duties, which, taking Customs and Excise together, amounts to £546,000, is the only indication in our tax returns of increased financial stringency in the country.

The delivery fee on parcels produced revenue at the rate of £47,000 per annum and reduced the number of incoming parcels from 54,000 to 39,000 per week. The Customs Entry Duty brought in revenue at the rate of £40,000 a year but does not so far seem to have had any effect on the number of consignments imported. As, however, it only came into operation on 1st September last, it will be continued at any rate for another year.

Turning to the expenditure side of our accounts, it is worthy of note that expenditure on the Army sank to very little over £3,000,000 as compared with £10,500,000 in the previous year. The amount paid out of the Property Losses Compensation Vote was only £2,270,000. The great discrepancy between the estimate and the actual expenditure was due in part to the fact that early in the year a serious question arose as to the interpretation of the Terms of Reference of the Compensation (Ireland) Commission. For many months the work of the Commission which deals with all pre-truce cases of damage to property was suspended while negotiations were being carried on with the British Government. It was not until the end of the year that a satisfactory agreement was reached and the issue of new Terms of Reference by the Governor-General on 7th January enabled the work of the Commission to be resumed. Another reason for the small expenditure on compensation was that the progress made by the Courts in dealing with claims under the Damage to Property (Compensation) Act, 1923, was not nearly so rapid as we had reason to expect a year ago. Even when cases have been heard there is often great delay before awards and reports are forwarded to the Ministry of Finance. Sufficient progress has now been made to enable us for the first time to form an estimate of our net liability for compensation. The total net amount payable out of the public funds of Saorstát Eireann in respect of compensation for property losses and personal injuries, both pre-truce and post-truce, will not, it is believed, exceed £10,300,000. This is a figure very much less than the burden which was at one time feared. The gross amount of the awards in respect of pre-truce property claims will total about £7,660,000. The British contribution, it is estimated, will be £3,560,000. The net payment to be made from our Exchequer in respect of this part of the compensation charge will, therefore, be about £4,100,000. The estimate which has now been made of our total liability in respect of compensation for post-truce damage to property and for personal injuries of all periods mainly post-truce is £6,168,000. As the investigation of personal injuries claims has been completed, and as between 60 and 70 per cent. of the claims lodged under the Damage to Property (Compensation) Act, 1923, have been heard by the Courts, we have now the data for making a very close estimate. It may be taken that the figure mentioned will require very little subsequent revision. I should like at this point to mention as it were in parenthesis, that £6,168,000 is only a fraction of the cost to the Exchequer of the civil war.

During the past three years Army charges have amounted to more than £21,000,000. The normal figure would have been £6,000,000. Thus the struggle of 1922-23 will involve an actual abnormal disbursement from the Exchequer of well over £21,000,000. The cash payment involved, however, is far short of the measure of loss suffered by the community. Consequential loss, arising from damage to property has not been paid for from State funds, but it has been, none the less, a real burden on the country. It would be impossible to build up a firm estimate of the amount of money represented by such loss and by the general loss of production following conditions of acute disorder. But it may be safely asserted that it was several times greater than the aggregate of the compensation awards for the post-truce period. The case of the Mallow Bridge may be cited as an illustration. The cost of the new structure was only about thirty thousand pounds. But Deputies will realise that the consequential loss to the community arising from the destruction must certainly have run to many times that figure. A conservative estimate, therefore, of the cost of the civil war would be thirty to thirty-five million pounds.

Allowing for the amount yet to be received from the British Government the net outstanding liability of the Saorstát in respect of compensation may be put at £3,814,500. Deputies will understand that ability to estimate with certainty the amount remaining to be paid under the head of compensation, together with the fact that that amount is very little more than half the sum already disbursed, must affect profoundly our Budgetary position. This time last year we had little idea of what the total compensation figure would be. In consequence we could not estimate how much we might have to borrow or what figure our annual debt charge was likely to reach; and a single year's experience in the raising and control of our own revenue had left us uncertain as to the yield which could be anticipated from certain important taxes. Moreover, at that time the end of the civil struggle was still very recent; the possibility of some recrudescence of strife could hardly be said to have completely disappeared; the credit of the State though good was not too firmly established, and the possibility of having to borrow considerable sums in the atmosphere that existed was not one to be faced without a good deal of heart-searching. Consequently last year's Budget, like that of the year before, carried out the view of the Executive Council that existing taxation should be carried on until the financial prospects had become more clearly defined and until there was a disappearance of conditions under which State borrowing might become an occasion of national danger.

This year we propose to make reductions.

It is the opinion of the Executive Council that without further delay the greatest possible relief from taxation consistent with the requirements of sound financial policy should be given to the country. We shall always insist that outgoings not of an abnormal and non-recurrent character, and not in the nature of capital expenditure, shall be met out of revenue. On the other hand, we feel that at the present juncture it is not in the national interest to impose taxation for the payment of charges which may properly be met by borrowing. It is, of course, a fact that the amount and objects of public expenditure and the value received for it, are the really important considerations. Nevertheless there are various factors which make the raising of special sums by borrowing a very different thing from raising them by heavy taxation. It can hardly be doubted that a reduction in taxation will have on industry and commerce a stimulating effect not to be obtained otherwise. The Estimates of Receipts and Expenditure for the year ending 31st March, 1926, published as a White Paper, show that the sum required for Central Fund Services is £3,890,527, and Supply Services £26,238,453. The total estimated expenditure for the year, therefore, is £30,128,980.

For the purpose of arriving at the sum which ought to be defrayed out of revenue certain deductions have to be made under the following heads:—

A. Vote 8—Local Loans, £50,000 in respect of new capital.

B. Vote 11—Public Works and Buildings, £60,000 in respect of compensation for commandeered premises, and £320,000 in respect of new works, being the part of a total provision of £419,715, which may reasonably be regarded as abnormal.

C. Vote 14—Property Losses Compensation, £3,675,300, the entire provision.

D. Vote 15—Personal Injuries Compensation, £32,000, the entire provision.

E. Vote 44—Technical Instruction, £16,075, being a duplicate item included in error in the preliminary estimates.

F. Vote 57—Army, £1,053,117, being the provision in excess of £2,000,000.

G. Central Fund Services.—Service of Debt, Sinking Fund, etc., £910,000, being the provision included in Central Fund services for repayment of ways and means advances, and Savings Certificates.

The aggregate of the deductible items under these seven heads is £6,116,492, which leaves £24,012,488 as the total of the expenditure to be met by imposition of taxation or out of other income.

On the existing basis it is estimated that in the present year there will be paid into the Exchequer tax revenue amounting to £22,554,000, and non-tax revenue to the extent of £4,686,110, or a total of £27,240,110. From this, however, we must deduct £1,260,000, being the estimated instalment of the British contribution towards compensation. We have now a revenue figure of £25,980,110, which may be set against the £24,012,488 expenditure, payable out of income. The difference is £1,967,622, which, if the various deductions we have made are justifiable and sufficient, is the amount by which our revenue would at the present rates of taxation, exceed the sum necessary to be raised in the form of income.

The list of deductible items already given is one which cannot rightly be increased. It would, of course, be possible to go through the Estimates and pick out, here and there, smaller items which in themselves have something of an abnormal and non-recurrent character. But it must be remembered that the Estimates will continue to have a sprinkling of such items which will change in identity year by year but will not vary greatly in number. To bring them into the calculation would only be, to some extent, to falsify the result.

It may be argued that some figure ought to be deducted from expenditure in respect of pension charges at any rate. It is true that at present the Exchequer bears an abnormal burden in the form of superannuation and retired allowances, but most of that part of the charge which is in excess of a normal figure arises from pensions to disbanded members of the R.I.C. These are comparatively young men. They have now a somewhat easy existence and may, in the great majority of cases, be expected to attain to a ripe old age. The same remarks may, to some extent, be applied to civil servants who have retired or have been discharged on Treaty terms. No appreciable diminution of the cost of pensions can be expected for a great number of years. The charge, consequently, must be regarded as fully recurrent and as such ought to be met out of revenue. If any additional argument against borrowing in respect of pensions were necessary, it would be found in the fact that very soon after a substantial reduction in the total of the R.I.C. pensions has commenced to take place, members of the Civic Guard who are more nearly of an age than is usual in a police force will begin to come out on pension in great numbers. A certain overlap will consequently take place keeping the cost of pensions at an abnormal height for a further period.

Looking at the matter from a different angle, it might be argued that under peaceful conditions such as now exist borrowing to meet any part of the cost of the Army is a thing which cannot be justified. The Executive Council, however, are satisfied that Army expenditure would already have sunk to the neighbourhood of £2,000,000 per annum but for the fact that, although fighting has ceased for a considerable time, arms have not been surrendered. This necessitates the maintenance for the present of a force somewhat beyond the normal peace-time requirements as an insurance against a renewal of organised violence. The fact is, indeed, that it is only recently that the Executive Council became completely satisfied that the existing strength of the Army was sufficient. That the country is rapidly settling down, there can be no doubt; and the further we leave the habits and atmosphere of the Civil War period behind us the less becomes the danger of any renewal of rebellion. In the circumstances the abnormal part of the Army charge may be expected to disappear comparatively soon, and, in the meantime, we are satisfied that no just criticism can be levelled against us for borrowing to meet it. In this connection weight must be given to the fact that we have already paid out of revenue a figure not far short of half of the excess or "war" cost of our Army up to date, assuming payment in respect of compensation to have been made from borrowed money.

The question whether the surplus figure of £1,967,622 may rightly be taken as indicating the extent to which remission of taxation should be allowed is one to which close consideration has been given. The calculation we have made allows for the provision out of taxation of £329,000 for redemption of debt as follows:—National Loan Sinking Fund, £262,000; Compensation Stock drawings, £67,000. On the other hand, it assumes that the savings in certain votes will equal the supplementary sums which will almost certainly have to be provided during the course of the year in the case of other votes. In view of the elimination of the Compensation Votes and the marginal part of the Army Vote this is perhaps an optimistic view.

In regard to the future it has to be borne in mind that additional debt for non-productive purposes has to be incurred before we have done with compensation and before the Army has been brought down to a normal strength. In view of the state of employment it becomes more and more doubtful whether any addition to the million and a quarter already advanced to the unemployment fund can be regarded as recoverable either as to princpal or interest. Recent legislation has tended to increase recurrent expenditure under certain heads. All our agricultural and land legislation may be cited as an example. Under existing commitments there will be automatic increases for several years in the cost of secondary education. The passage of the Compulsory School Attendance Bill will result in increased expenditure on primary education. Accruing increments will cause an expansion of the amount required for police.

Moreover, on the revenue side there has over the past three years been an appreciable decrease in the proceeds of taxes as a whole. The estimates of the Revenue Commissioners point towards some further contraction, and the position is rendered weaker by the fact that the estimates are temporarily inflated by an abnormal arrear of income tax.

Against this, however, may be put the view held in many responsible quarters, that in industry and commerce rock-bottom has been reached, and that improved conditions are to be anticipated. In any case, it may safely be said that a substantial reduction in the burden of taxation will of itself produce an improvement in the rate of yield. Again, it seems not extravagant to expect for the future better weather and better agricultural conditions than have obtained for the past couple of years, with a consequent improvement in revenue returns. In view of all the circumstances, the Executive Council is of opinion that, subject to a deduction for unfavourable contingencies, the surplus which has been indicated should be exhausted by remission of taxation. If next year, adjustments seem necessary in consequence of any new facts that may have come to light, they can then be made. It is proposed, therefore, to set aside from the surplus of normal revenue over normal expenditure, a margin of £117,622, and to budget for a reduction of revenue to absorb the remainder, namely, £1,850,000.

The Executive Council believe that the reductions now to be proposed may, given favourable conditions, be regarded as permanent, but it should be pointed out that further reductions cannot arise through changes from taxation to borrowing. They must be based either on reduced expenditure or increased yield of taxes. We are forced to the conclusion that while some relief may be got by cutting expenditure, the best hope of substantial reductions lies in the better development of the resources and industries of the country. Saorstát Eireann has a sparse and scattered population, and close social and commercial connection with a rich and thickly-populated neighbour. These two facts tend to make the costs of running certain Government services disproportionately high. Proposals to cut down expenditure by wiping out services, which modern countries are more and more coming to regard as essential, are of no assistance. The Government will try every means to secure the utmost possible limitation of expenditure, but it will not cut off services, regardless of consequences, and it cannot pledge itself not to undertake from time to time new activities which may be urgently necessary and overdue. The position is, that since whole services cannot be scrapped, big and speedy reductions of expenditure are not possible.

Economies in the public service can only be accomplished by detailed restriction and adjustment and by gradual simplification of machinery. On the other hand, a very moderate improvement in trade conditions, or a very slight increase in national productivity, would, providing expenditure were merely held tight and not permitted to expand, allow of a quite substantial reduction in tax rates.

The Government since the end of the period of turmoil has given a good deal of attention to the development of the productive resources of the country. I need only mention, in passing, the steps that have been taken by way of agricultural legislation and land legislation and the proposals regarding the Shannon and the Barrow. It will be expected, however, that I should make some more detailed reference to our action and policy in reference to tariffs for the promotion of manufacturing industry. Last year certain Customs duties were imposed with a view to giving the country an experiment in Protection. Having regard to the short time that has elapsed and the forestalling that took place in certain cases, the results have been satisfactory.

The boot tax brought in revenue to the extent of £225,000 and stimulated production to a remarkable degree. Returns furnished by the four principal firms in the industry showed that between 1st April, 1924, and 1st December, 1924, the number of persons employed increased by 80 per cent., while as a result of full time being worked wages increased by 100 per cent. Since December the rate of progress has been more than maintained. At least one new factory has been started and others are to be started. As a result of careful inquiries by the Department of Industry and Commerce we are satisfied that the prices of Irish-made boots have not been increased, and in a few cases have been slightly decreased. There is no doubt that in the present year the industry will expand considerably.

The duty on sugar confectionery has been of great assistance to the industry. It is difficult to estimate the revenue resulting from the imposition of the tax since confectionery previously paid duty at rates that varied very considerably according to the sugar content of the kinds imported. It may perhaps be put at £30,000 or £40,000. Between 1st April, 1924, and 1st December, 1924, the number of persons employed in the industry increased by about 26 per cent. Owing to the great variety of goods produced in the sugar confectionery business it has been found impossible to get reliable information as to the movement in prices in confectionery goods. In the case of jam, however, to which the tax applies, careful inquiries show that the prices of Irish jams have gone down, while the prices of imported jams have gone up. In addition, there is evidence that the reputation of certain Irish jams has improved. Enquiries from retailers in Dublin have shown that apart from the differences in price there has been an increase in preference amongst the public for Irish-made jams. In this instance it can certainly be said that Irish manufacturers have risen to the opportunity presented to them. While in the case of sugar confectionery there has been throughout the year a decline in imports, in the case of cocoa preparations (including chocolates) no perceptible decline took place until recently. This, however, was not altogether unexpected, since the making of cocoa and chocolate is a more complicated business than the making of jam or boiled sweets. There is now reason to believe that home production is about to increase.

The effect of the duty on soap and candles cannot yet be judged in consequence of the forestalling that took place. Generally speaking, there has been no increase in the price of these commodities to the consumer as a result of the tax. Candles have become slightly dearer, but the cost has gone up in Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the same extent as in the Saorstát.

Before the tax on bottles was announced, big stocks were already held in the country. On top of this a certain amount of forestalling took place, with the result that the tax has not yet had time to take much effect. Nevertheless, some additional employment was given. The revenue collected amounted to little over £3,000.

During the year we have had a multitude of appeals to afford protection to all sorts of industries. We have been able to give more mature consideration to the whole question, and we have decided to lay certain further proposals before the Dáil. In submitting these proposals, I should like to state quite distinctly that the Government does not believe that it would be for the benefit of this country to establish a general tariff or anything approaching it. And it will not allow itself to slip into the position of having laid the foundations of a general tariff by imposing each year a few duties and giving rise to a host of claims for others. After the present Budget this Government will not break any further fresh ground in the matter of protective tariffs, before the general election. We may alter the rate or adjust the scope of a particular duty; and we may, if we think necessary for revenue purposes, propose to the Dáil Customs duties on manufactured goods of a luxury or semi-luxury type, but we will not propose fresh duties of a protective character on manufactured goods of common and necessary use. At the end of three years from now the effects and reactions of our experiment in protection will have begun to appear pretty plainly and the country will have had an opportunity of giving electoral expression to any conclusions it may have come to in the matter. Whatever Government may then be in power can take any further action it thinks fit.

As we see the position the prosperity of the Saorstát must for a long time depend upon its export of agricultural produce. A protectionist duty, particularly from the point at which it begins to be successful and ceases to yield substantial revenue, must as a rule operate to increase the cost of living. In particular cases there may be reactions which will neutralise this effect. But it can hardly be gainsaid that a large number of protective duties would be bound to result in an appreciable rise in our cost of living figure. A definite increase in the cost of living must act as a handicap on agriculture. While new industries cannot be built up by tariffs without some cost to the country, we are satisfied that if we do not try to go too far or too fast a great deal can be done without imposing on the general community a burden which cannot be borne.

The advantage which all classes would derive from the development of manufacturing industries would be manifold and important. Denser population and greater traffic would help to solve the problem of railway freights for our agriculturists. Bigger towns and cities would mean the expansion of a not unimportant market for our agricultural produce. Energy and money diverted from the creation of unnecessary distributing houses would remove a burden on producer and consumer. The surplus population of the countryside would have increased opportunities of making a livelihood in their native land. Greater variety of occupation and interest in the country would help to develop the social and intellectual life of the nation and give us a more alert and enlightened public opinion.

The Government believes that agriculture must be our first care, but it also believes that we cannot postpone the need for endeavouring to promote industrial activity within our borders.

The tariff proposals which we submitted last year were of a more limited character than we should have put forward if we had had sufficient trained staff to carry them out. Further consideration has convinced us that they were of too limited a character to give the country the practical demonstration of the various aspects of protection which would enable it later on to fix with certainty on the fiscal policy best suited to its needs. We think, however, that the number of protective duties which a country like ours can afford to impose is limited and we think also that any steps in the way of protection taken at present must be looked upon as experimental. Therefore, we must be regarded as shutting the door for some time with our present proposals.

Our main proposition is one which was considered last year, but was not proceeded with. It is for the imposition of an ad valorem duty at the rate of 15 per cent. on all personal clothing and wearing apparel. We also propose a tax of 15 per cent. ad valorem on blanketing, blankets and rugs. The yield of these two taxes is estimated at £520,000. The manufacture of apparel is a type of industry which might well become independent of the assistance of a tariff in the course of a very few years. Many branches of it are already carried on, to some extent, in the Saorstát. The existing factories are by no means working to their full capacity. In this case the imposition of the duty is expected to mean immediately a considerable increase in employment. There has been, it is true, a good deal of speculative forestalling, but it has not covered anything like the whole range of articles of apparel capable of being made here. Labour for this industry is easily trained, and the plant required is not elaborate. It is expected that expansion will be rapid and that before the end of the year several thousands of additional people will be employed.

Is hosiery included in apparel?

Yes. The tax on blankets and rugs will give some assistance to the woollen industry in meeting the difficulties with which it is at present faced. The woollen industry is an old-established one and fairly efficient: it would, no doubt, be able to weather the storm without assistance. But the tax proposed will help to prevent its coming out crippled or unduly impoverished.

We propose that a duty of 33? per cent. ad valorem be charged on bedsteads and on wooden furniture. The industry affected is one employing highly skilled labour. It presents problems different from those arising in the other industries we have protected. Like the apparel industry, it is of a type which could be carried on in the Saorstát without being under any handicap. If employers and workers both rise to their opportunity, the prospects of the industry may be completely transformed. The revenue anticipated for the year is £75,000. Little will be paid on the cheaper class of furniture, which has always been made to a considerable extent here.

Last year a duty of 33? per cent. ad valorem was imposed on black and green bottles. It is proposed now to extend the tax to all empty glass bottles and jars. The change will remove certain difficulties arising from the large number of border line cases. That, however, is a minor matter. Its main effect will be to give Irish bottle makers a field sufficiently large for real growth. An industry of a too limited type is not, in our circumstances, worth protection, since it is unlikely ever to grow strong enough to dispense with a tariff and face competition unaided. It was never intended merely to give protection for the manufacture of porter bottles and leave the matter there. The idea was to enable the factories to resume the work they had lately been doing and later to extend the scope of the duty to give them the opportunity of branching into new lines. The Executive Council is convinced that, since the industry is protected at all, it should be protected in such a way as to produce definite results within a reasonable time. The extension of the duty is expected to yield revenue to the extent of £20,000.

Another duty which it is proposed to adjust is that on soap. At present there is a 10 per cent. ad valorem duty on all soap. It appears, from recently increasing imports, that on toilet and shaving soaps, which are the profitable end of the business, less than a 20 per cent. tax would not be effective. On the other hand, the Executive Council is satisfied that, after a suitable duty on the fancy soaps has been in force for a few years, there will be little need for continuing to tax common soap. It is proposed to levy on toilet (including shaving) soaps and on soap powders and soap substitutes, a special duty of 10 per cent. ad valorem, additional to the general duty of 10 per cent. No increase in revenue will result.

The proposed new duties, if agreed to by the Dáil, will bring in additional revenue to the extent of £615,000. Adding this to the figure already arrived at for distributable surplus, we have a total of £2,465,000 available for reduction of other taxation.

Many suggestions have been put forward in recent months as to the form in which relief should be given. I need hardly say that they have all received the degree of consideration which they seemed to deserve. It has been hinted that abolition of income tax on all incomes arising in the Saorstát would be in the nature of an economic panacea. In saying that the proposal does not commend itself to the Government, I think it is only necessary for me to point out that its adoption would involve the Exchequer in an annual loss of well over £4,000,000 in income tax alone. A big loss of super-tax would also be inevitable. Further, we are satisfied that most of the loss would be felt immediately. The collection of existing arrears would become difficult and much slower. We had evidence of this in the fact that for a month or six weeks after the proposal was first mooted, there was practically a stoppage in a certain important part of the country of all payment of income tax. An idea has got abroad that because we have 8¼ millions, or thereabouts, in dividends coming into the Saorstát annually, that the Exchequer benefits to the extent of two million pounds in income tax. The duty chargeable in respect of foreign dividends would be about two million pounds if all such dividends were assessed at 5/- and no allowances made. But most of the income in question is subject to double taxation, and, consequently, is entitled to relief to the extent of, say, 2/3 in the pound on our part. Further, it must be clear to all who will consider the matter that only a portion of the £8,000,000 income which we have under consideration would actually be charged income tax at all. In a great many cases the dividends come either directly or ultimately to people of low income, who pay tax on only a fraction of the sum they receive, or perhaps escape tax altogether, by reason of the allowances to which they are entitled. A great many of the dividends come to various charities which are exempt from income tax altogether. A careful review of the situation convinces us that we could not rely on revenue of as much as £500,000 per annum from tax on incomes arising outside the Saorstát. It would be dwelling too long on a proposal which, perhaps, was not meant to be taken literally, to deal with the cases in which, if the Cork proposal were adopted, we should lose Revenue merely for the benefit of the British Exchequer or the cases in which the change would result in increasing the effective salary of public servants who are protected by the Treaty and by Statute. I shall leave the abolition proposal, therefore, with the remark that in my view the substantial shifting of the burden of taxation from the richer to the poorer sections of the community, which the change would necessarily involve, could not be justified, particularly when it is clear that the industrial stimulus aimed at could be achieved by far less drastic measures.

A good deal has been said about the necessity for abolishing Corporation Profits Tax. While we admit that a case might be made for modifying the scope and rate of the tax, we are satisfied that, even as levied at present, it does not constitute such a handicap on industry as is frequently alleged. Its abolition would mean a loss of revenue of £250,000 per annum, a sum which we believe could, at the present juncture, be used to better advantage in other forms of relief. Even if we had a surplus which would make it easy for us to drop the tax, I should not be in favour of doing so until it had been further examined in relation to the question of death duties on assets held by foreign companies in the Saorstát. At present, if a Saorstát shareholder in a British company dies, we get our share of the duty. If the company has assets here we can get the whole of the duty payable on the death of a Saorstát shareholder, provided the company has established, or has been obliged to establish a Colonial register here. But we would get no duty on the death of a British shareholder, even though the company in question had all its assets in Ireland and the shareholder who died had held ninety-nine per cent. of its shares. In such a case, property situated in the Saorstát would actually, though not technically, pass on a death, but the British Exchequer would get the tax and we should get nothing. There are nearly four hundred British companies carrying on business here and some of them own property of enormous value. As we are continually losing duty which would be paid if such property were owned by British residents individually, it should be clear that a case could be made for retaining some form of Corporation Profits Tax permanently, and that in any case the whole matter merits full consideration.

I shall now give the proposals for the reduction of taxation. We intend to reduce the Income Tax from 5/- to 4/-. This reduction in an ordinary full year would cost £1,000,000 or slightly less. In the first year, however, owing to what may be called normal arrears, resulting from the double instalment system in force and duty outstanding in respect of disputed assessments, it may be taken that an income tax reduction will cause only half the loss of revenue that would be sustained in a subsequent year. If, therefore, we had no reservoir of abnormal arrears to draw upon, the cost of a shilling reduction in the present year would be a little under £500,000. But we are satisfied that the reduction proposed will facilitate and expedite the collection of old arrears to such an extent that the revenue from income tax will not fall below the estimate given in the White Paper by more than £200,000.

I come now to the farmers who notoriously do not pay income tax. We do not propose to return to the prewar basis for the assessment of agricultural land, because it would result in a substantial loss to the Exchequer and give no relief to the farmer who lives solely by husbandry. A substantial amount of tax on agricultural land does reach the Exchequer, but it is almost entirely paid by shopkeepers, teachers, clergymen and the like, who are also owners of farms, by big landowners and by farmers with investments. There are, of course, a certain number of ordinary farmers whose valuation renders them liable to tax, but only to a very limited extent. A few examples will illustrate this. Let us take the case of a married farmer living in County Meath whose only source of income is a farm of 130 statute acres freehold, the Poor Law Valuation of which is £128. His liability for income tax last year was 5/-; this year it will be 4/-. I shall give another example: A man holding a farm valued at £240 for Poor Law purposes. This man is not a freeholder. He pays a Land Purchase annuity of £195, is married, and has no other income. The interest portion of his annuity is 11-13 of the total, namely, £165. The liability of such a man for income tax is nil. In the case of farmers with holdings of higher valuation or paying smaller purchase annuities, I think it will be acknowledged that they should pay income tax, like other people, if they make profits. And the farmer of two or three hundred pounds valuation who does not keep accounts to show whether he has made profits or not, ought to be made to pay double. We do not think that the way to help the agriculturist is to give the shopkeeper-farmer, or the shareholder-farmer relief that would be inadequate. An example will show how this class is affected by the present basis of assessment. A taxpayer is assessed under Schedule D as a shopkeeper at £500. He is married and owns and occupies a farm of 80 acres, the Poor Law Valuation of which is £40, and the Land Purchase annuity on which is £31. His total liability to tax at the 5/- rate has been £37 7s. 6d. A person in employment earning £500 a year and married would pay £28 2s. 6d. A difference of £9 5s. Our proposal for the relief of the farmer whose industry is the most important factor in our economic life is that the agricultural grant should be doubled. The cost in round figures will be £600,000. Although a payment out of the Exchequer will be involved and technically fresh expenditure will be incurred, we regard the step we are taking as being essentially as much a relief of taxation as if we took, say, 8d. more off the income tax at a similar cost. We propose to take steps similar to those prescribed in the Local Government (Rates on Agricultural Land) Act, 1924, to enable appropriate reductions to be made in the demand notes. The necessary legislation and estimate will be submitted as soon as possible. The only other remission of direct taxation which we propose is an increase of the allowance for the Corporation Profits Tax purposes from £500 to £1,000. The cost will be about £15,000.

We propose to abolish the duty on tea. The cost will be £450,000 per annum.

We propose also to abolish the duties on raw cocoa and coffee and chicory at a cost of £39,000.

Our principal proposal, however, is in connection with the sugar duty. We propose, in the first place, to drop Imperial preference in sugar, the cost of which has been very considerable, and does not benefit the consumer or even Great Britain—the great market for our produce. The countries which produce the sugar, and benefit by the preference, cannot give us any reciprocal advantage. In the first year in which we had control of our own Customs, the proportion of preference sugar imported hardly exceeded 5 per cent. During the past six months the percentage has grown, so that in February it amounted to 77.92 per cent. and in March to 78.52 per cent. of our total imports of sugar. The seriousness of the increase from a financial point of view is obvious when we remember that the duty on preference sugar is £1 1s. 4?d., while the full rate is 25s. 8d. If we had given no preference last year, our revenue from the sugar duty would have been £75,000 in excess of the realised figure. If the recent trend were to continue, we might this year lose one-sixth of our entire revenue from sugar through preference. A like result could not happen in a big market like Great Britain. Although a change in rate of duty on our part would check last year's trend, the experience we have had of the possible effects of preference in this particular commodity show that it is not suitable to a small country like this. In any case, we want now to give the greatest possible advantage to the consumer at the least cost of the revenue. Therefore, we intend to reduce the duty on sugar from a full rate of 2¾d. per lb., with a preference rate of ? less, to a flat rate of 1d. in the lb. The cost will be £1,100,000. The various remissions of Customs duties proposed will take effect from the 6th May, leaving a period of fourteen days during which traders may clear stocks on hand. This is considered ample.

Certain proposals for the reduction of the postal and telephone charges have been considered. The Government are satisfied that, at the present juncture, it would be an unjustifiable proceeding to reduce the letter rate to 1d. and throw on the Exchequer the burden of providing an additional contribution of £220,000 towards the maintenance of our postal services. No stimulus could be given to business that would at all correspond to the cost. Besides, such a step would mean practically an abandonment of the idea that within a reasonable period the Post Office should be made to pay its way. There are, however, certain concessions which would not be costly and which would be of benefit to the business community. It is proposed to lower the rate for inland postcards from 1½d. to 1d. Before the European War the rate was ½d., so that with the proposed change it will simply be doubled, like the letter rate. Allowing for a certain increase in the traffic, it is estimated that the reduction of a halfpenny in the rate will mean a loss of revenue of less than £14,000 a year. Post-cards are a remunerative class of business from the Post Office point of view. They are easy to handle and deal with, and do not add much to the weight of mail bags. A moderate increase in the traffic would not, therefore, entail extra expense.

The telephone service is the particular branch of Post Office activity in which reductions are most likely to pay themselves in increased traffic apart altogether from stimulus to business. Unlike the remaining postal services, the telephones are almost, if not quite, paying their way. The Minister for Posts and Telegraphs thinks they are paying their way, and I think they are almost paying their way. In any case, they are doing better than ever before. It is proposed to make the following reductions: Rentals for first lines to business houses will be lowered from £7 10s. to £6 10s., and auxiliary lines from £6 10s. to £5 10s. Rental for lines to private residences will be lowered from £7 10s. to £5. The local fees for calls will be reduced from 1½d. and 3d., according to distance, to 1¼d. and 2d. respectively. The present discount of 5 per cent. on calls in excess of 2,000 a year will be discontinued.

The total cost of the Post Office concessions will be about £50,000, though it is expected that after a year, with increased traffic, most of the lost revenue will be recovered.

I have now exhausted our list of reliefs, which amount in the aggregate to £2,454,000, leaving the modest net surplus of £11,000.

We have not proposed to apply any part of the gross surplus towards supplementing the Old Age Pension Vote, because we feel that the situation does not permit of any increase in recurrent expenditure; that, in fact, existing expenditure can continue to be borne only if conditions improve. Substantial reduction in taxation is, consequently, necessary above all else. But, if the situation is found to have improved at the end of the year, we believe some revision of the Old Age Pension Act, 1924, will have to be given precedence of any further reduction of taxation, however much required. Meantime the tea and sugar reductions will be of some benefit to old age pensioners.

The Finance Bill will contain a number of relief proposals which will not involve any appreciable cost to the Exchequer. A clause will be inserted giving effect, for a further period of three years, to the arrangement relieving British charities from Saorstát tax. The British will reciprocate by relieving our charities. It had not been intended to renew the arrangement, but we have been convinced that refusal on our part to do so would have meant serious loss to Saorstát charities. After a careful review of the circumstances, we have come to the conclusion that the period of three years is not too long. But, at the end of it, no Saorstát charity which has not transferred its funds to home investments, will have grounds for complaint, or for a plea for a further extension of time when it finds its income becoming subject to tax.

Following the example of British legislation last year profits arising from Agricultural Shows will be exempted from income tax.

Since the imposition of the Entertainments' Tax, duty has not been paid in respect of events promoted by the Gaelic Athletic Association, though under the law they clearly were not exempt. So far we have simply followed British precedent and refrained from enforcing payment of the tax without altering the law. The time has now come when the position must be regularised, and we propose that statutory authority be extended to the exemption that has hitherto, tacitly but illegally, been given.

Other minor changes in the law will be proposed, but they can be most satisfactorily dealt with when they come before the Dáil in the form of resolutions or as sections of the Finance Act. I propose to deal briefly with two matters of importance outstanding.

The first is the Road Tax on motor vehicles. Various suggestions have been put forward for a new basis. We have not yet been able to reach any conclusions. If it is decided to propose any change from the horse-power basis, a Finance Bill No. 2 will be introduced. In view of the fact that the Road Tax year ends on the 31st December nothing will be lost by two or three months' delay.

The other outstanding matter to which I wish to refer is the question of the inauguration of the beet sugar industry in Saorstát Eireann. It is now possible to announce that the Government has come to a satisfactory agreement with a firm of Belgian sugar manufacturers to enable a factory to be started here for the manufacture of sugar in the autumn of 1926.

What place?

Wait and see. Last September an inter-departmental Committee, consisting of representatives of the Departments of Finance, of Industry and Commerce and of Lands and Agriculture was formed for the purpose of considering any proposals that might be put forward for the development of a beet sugar industry in this country. Representatives of the sugar industry from Holland, France, Belgium and Czecho-Slovakia visited the country and set out the terms on which they were willing to set up a beet sugar factory here. Some of the offers were of a rather tentative nature while others were definite in form. Members of the Committee went to the Continent and were shown over the sugar factories of some of the groups that were prepared to start a factory here, and interviewed the heads of these groups with a view to getting their terms modified in certain directions. When the various proposals were in their final form, they were laid before the Executive Council which decided that, taken generally, especially from the farmers' point of view, acceptance of the terms offered by the Belgian group headed by M. Lippens afforded the best prospect of setting up the beet sugar industry on a sound basis. I may state here that no country ever established this industry without the grant of subsidies, and that no country ever regretted the money spent on fostering it.

The terms of governmental aid which it has been agreed to grant to the company which will be formed by M. Lippens and his associates by way of remission of excise duty or by payment of a direct subsidy for a ten years' period commencing in 1926 are as follows:—

For the first three years 24/6 per cwt. of manufactured sugar of a polarization of 98 degrees.

For the next five years 22/6 per cwt. of manufactured sugar of a polarization of 98 degrees.

For the last two years 22/- per cwt. of manufactured sugar of a polarization of 98 degrees.

This represents approximately an average subsidy of 23/- per cwt. of manufactured sugar over the whole period.

This subsidy will be conditional on payment to the sugar beet growers, for the first three years of the ten year period, of a price of 54/- per ton, factory weight, washed and topped, for beets of 15½ sugar content delivered at the factory, provided the grower enters into a three years' contract for growing and delivering the beets. The price of 54/- per ton will be liable to variation by the addition or deduction of 2/6, or a proportional fraction thereof for every one per cent. or fraction thereof by which the sugar content is greater or less respectively than 15½ per cent. For one year's contract the basic price to the grower will be 50/- per ton, with the above variations. Growers, in addition, will be entitled, if they so desire, to have returned to them on specially favourable terms a proportion of the dried pulp from which the sugar has been extracted and which is a valuable cattle food. One of the chief considerations that led to the acceptance of the Belgian offer was the fact of the high prices to be paid to the beet grower for his crop, as it is certain that the industry cannot be established without the hearty cooperation of the farmers. After the fullest consideration of all the proposals submitted, it can be stated confidently that no firm of continental reputation with experience of the growing of beet and the manufacture and marketing of sugar, was willing to accept as low a rate of subsidy while giving a guarantee of such prices to the beet grower.

As regards the site of the factory, it was felt necessary to concede to the company complete freedom of choice in view of the fact that if the experiment is a failure the main loss will fall on the company.

It was further considered that it would be foolish, in such matters, to interfere with the discretion of men of many years' experience in the beet-sugar industry. The company can go ahead with every certainty that there will be no attempt by the Government to dictate to it as to the best way in which it can carry out the experiment to a successful issue. It was not, however, considered incompatible with this decision to direct the attention of representatives of the company to the notable pioneer work in beet growing that has been carried out under the auspices of the North Cork Industrial Development Association.

It is not proposed to subsidise more than one factory at the present time. This first factory is experimental. We have no precise data as to the yield per acre and the sugar content of sugar-beet grown in this country.

I hope that, after a very short experience of the running of the first experimental factory, it may be possible to obtain much better terms, and, therefore, I hesitate about stating definitely what number of additional factories, if any, I will be prepared to license. The Dáil will appreciate that this is a matter which a little more knowledge and inquiries will certainly elucidate, and that public interest requires caution in issuing licences on the present terms.

It is hoped that information will soon be available, as grants are being given by the Department of Lands and Agriculture for growing sugar-beet on a commercial scale in various districts.

If these experiments are successful, there will be no difficulty later on in persuading farmers to grow beet for another factory, if it is decided to enlarge the experiment. Furthermore, the Government has no certain information as to whether the rate of subsidy required now is the least possible necessary for the successful establishment of the industry in the Saorstát. M. Lippens was very anxious to obtain some private Irish capital for his enterprise. He has now received assurances of such support. It will be a condition, however, of the granting of a licence to the company that a balance-sheet and profit and loss account for each year's working shall be furnished to the Government, with such explanations as shall be considered necessary, and the balance-sheet will be laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas. To this condition the company agree, and we will, consequently, in a few years' time, be able to measure, with some degree of certainty, the amount of State assistance necessary to set the industry on its feet. It would be difficult to justify at this transition period, when so many factors are unknown, the grant of these substantial concessions for a period of ten years to more than one factory. It should be remembered that the terms we are granting are considerably in excess of those, the offer of which has resulted in the building, or the proposed building, of a number of factories in Great Britain. Placing the terms side by side and taking the Colonial Preference rate into account, we get the following comparison:—

Irish Terms

B’tish Terms

per cwt.

per cwt.

First three years

24/6

21/5

Fourth year

22/6

21/5

5th, 6th, and 7th years

22/6

14/11

8th year

22/6

8/5

9th and 10th years

22/-

8/5

I should add that the British factories which were working during the two seasons before 1924 received in remission of duty State assistance at the rate of 25/8 per cwt. for these two seasons in addition to the subsidy now granted. On the other hand, most of the British factories will enjoy the certainty of the subsidy for nine years only.

It should be said, however, that these comparisons, made just now, are unduly unfavourable to our terms, because the 8/5 at the end of the tenth year, paid by the British Government, is paid at the end of 19 years' experience of beet sugar manufacture, whereas the 22/-, paid at the end of our tenth year, will be paid at the end of only 10 years' net experience of beet sugar manufacture.

The amount of sugar which will be manufactured in the factory here is, of course, problematical, but it has been roughly estimated that the amounts will be 5,000 tons of sugar the first year, 6,000 tons the second year, 7,000 tons the third year, 8,000 tons the fourth year and 10,000 tons each of the next six years. If these estimates prove correct, the amount of State assistance will be £122,500 for the first year, £147,000 the second year, £171,500 the third year, £180,000 the fourth year, £225,000 the fifth, sixth, seventh and eighth years, and £220,000 the ninth and tenth years or £1,961,000 over the period of ten years. In view of these figures, and the fact that they might actually be exceeded, it is obvious that prudence dictates that we should not commit ourselves to more than one factory till our knowledge of all the factors governing the situation is considerably wider than it is at present. It is hoped that our experience will be so successful that we will be able to review this decision within a very few years. No expenditure will be incurred in connection with the present proposal in the current year, and the necessary legislation will be submitted to the Oireachtas in due course. If the experiment is a failure, the loss will fall entirely on the Company which is putting up all the capital required. If it is a success and leads to new and improved methods of tillage, improvement in dairy farming, and the finding of useful employment in the fields and in the new factories for those who might otherwise be forced to emigrate, the price is not too high, and the cost is not greatly in excess of the cost of the experiment at Kelham, in Great Britain, if capital losses there are taken into account.

In conclusion I have to warn the members of the Dáil that although the reductions proposed are justified for the present year and the next, they are such as cannot be continued beyond the year 1926-7 unless the general economic position of the country is improved by increasing production in agriculture and industry. We are now preparing to rely considerably for the next few years on sources of revenue which must disappear like the income tax arrears, and sources such as the protective duties which, we hope, will dry up by reason of their having achieved their purpose. If there is not a general realisation that all classes in the country are concerned in its economic welfare, and if that realisation does not translate itself into some practical action, I believe that the future will hold great difficulties, and they will not be such as can be solved by changing Governments and Constitutions and oaths. On the other hand, if, in the economic field, the people will face the new responsibilities, the new opportunities, the new difficulties that are theirs, there need be no fears for the future. The Government is convinced that people all over the country are adopting a new outlook; that they want no more political wrangles; that they want to see constructive things done, and to help in the doing of them.

We propose the reductions I have announced as an act of faith in the Saorstát and its future. We do not propose them rashly or casually, but because we are convinced, after careful thought, that they are a stimulus which the country needs, and to which it will respond.

I suggest that the debate on this very important statement be adjourned until such time as we have copies of the Minister's speech circulated so that we can study its contents.

The procedure that we have adopted heretofore is this: the Minister will propose a number of resolutions—thirteen resolutions in all. Some of these resolutions he desires to have made operative to-night.

He requires them tonight?

He desires to have them made operative tonight in certain cases. That is the usual procedure in the case of Budget resolutions; certain of them must be made operative at once. The procedure that was adopted before, and that was found satisfactory, apparently, was that resolutions of a particular nature were taken at once and the general discussion on the Minister's statement was afterwards taken on a general resolution, which will be No. 13 in this case. That resolution sets out that it is expedient to amend the law relating to Customs and Inland Revenue and to make further provision in connection with finance. On that motion the Dáil may have a general discussion on the Minister's statement and on all the questions that arise in the course of the Minister's statement. That discussion could be taken to-morrow, or on any other day that would be fixed by the Bill and that would be found suitable for the convenience of Deputies. But there are certain resolutions which the Minister will require to-day. The general discussion can be taken subsequently.

I suggest that we should take the separate resolutions to-day, and then take the final resolutions for the subject of a general discussion to-morrow.

That would be satisfactory.

Particular resolutions can be taken to-day, and the discussion will be relevant to each resolution. When we come to the last resolution progress will be reported and on that motion a general discussion will be allowed on all matters raised in the Minister's speech. Will that meet the views of Deputies?

That is quite satisfactory.

May I ask the Minister for Finance one question? It is a question which, I think, if he might care to answer it, would help in subsequent matters. Has he got in summary form the total of the remissions on the one hand and the total of the revenue coming in from new taxations on the other? Such a summary would show the resultant balance sheet. I ask that question because, as the Minister spoke, I made out a summary and I find there is a difference of about £1,300,000. I would like if the Minister set the matter out in summary form in order that it could be before the Dáil when the discussion takes place.

I will try to get what the Deputy asks prepared and circulated to-morrow.

The resolutions will be circulated now.

I find that when I was speaking on the postal charges I said that a reduction to a penny would mean £220,000. What I meant was a reduction from two to three halfpence.

Resolution No. 1 applies to income tax.

Could copies of the resolution be distributed before we discuss this matter? We could adjourn for ten minutes, if necessary.

The Deputy will have a copy of the resolution as soon as the ushers can get around. The first resolution deals with a reduction of income tax from five shillings to four shillings. Perhaps the Deputy would agree to take that before he gets the full text?

I think we would all agree to that.

Facilities should be given to the Cork Deputies to argue for a further reduction.

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