I propose to ask the Dáil to sit later than 8.30 and to take the motion for the adjournment not later than 10.30 to-night, and also to-morrow night, in order to enable the Education Estimates to be finished to-morrow. I propose to take the Order Paper in the order in which the items are set out on it, with this understanding, that the items on the Order Paper are non-contentious. I would like to allow time for the Education Estimates. I move that the Dáil sit later than 8.30 p.m., and that the motion for the adjournment be taken not later than 10.30 p.m.
EXTENDED SITTING.
I oppose that motion. The Dáil was called together a fortnight ago; we met for three hours, and then the President moved that we adjourn for a week because he had no business. Now he comes forward and suggests a late sitting. It seems to me to be a very curious procedure that, on the one hand, Deputies should be called from the country and sent home again in one day, and then within a week afterwards, when nothing new has occurred—when nothing but what could be foreseen has arisen—the President comes along and asks us to sit late. Now, I think that is no way to treat the business of the Dáil, and I think the Dáil should not agree to the extension of the sitting. As a protest against the method adopted of conducting business, I shall certainly oppose the motion.
I want to support Deputy Johnson in the statement that he has made. I think it is not fair to the House; it is not fair, at least to some Deputies, that we should continue to sit until 10.30 to-night. Several Deputies have been serving on Committees from early this morning, and it is not fair to expect them to sit here during the debate until 10.30 p.m. and then serve again on a Committee to-morrow morning. It is not right to expect that of some Deputies, who feel there is an obligation on them to be present as much as they possibly can be during this debate. One Minister may come into the House and have the business he is interested in disposed of; then another Minister can come along, and Ministers can, so to speak, work in relays. Deputies cannot do that, and it is not fair to expect them to do so much as they are now asked to do. I will support Deputy Johnson in his opposition to this proposal.
I agree with Deputies Johnson and Baxter. It is unfortunate, at this early stage, that we should be asked to put in what, in the case of those Deputies who sit on Committees, amounts to a 12-hours' day. I would like to have a little more light thrown on the President's statement to the effect that it is assumed that the items on the Order Paper are not contentious. For the most part they are Departmental matters. I hope, if we accept the President's view that they are non-contentious so far as the Second Reading is concerned, that we shall not be thought to be debarred from putting down amendments on the Committee Stage. Though the whole Bill may not be contentious from the point of view of principle, there may be details in it that are objectionable. I, therefore, want to enter a caveat at this stage. I think I can make in Committee the point that I am anxious to raise; I will not do so on the Second Reading. In respect to one of these Bills I do desire to raise a point.
I, too, would like to support the view put forward by Deputy Johnson. The President has not made any case, so far as necessity is concerned. What is the necessity that urges the President to put forward this motion? This matter has been sprung upon us. There are many Deputies who have made arrangements in regard to other business. All of us have our time well occupied on Committees and one thing or another. It is not a case of getting the Education Estimates passed within a certain time so that they may be included in an Appropriation Bill, or anything of that sort. As a matter of fact, the Estimates are already passed. This is largely a question of a debate which can be postponed and continued into next week, if necessary. This was the understanding under which the debate was taken up; it was understood that the ordinary business of the session would have precedence over the Education debate, which could be continued at different periods until finished. I cannot see the necessity for this late sitting. No argument has been put forward by the President to show that any necessity exists.
I would like to mention that I calculated the time during which the debate on educational matters was proceeding in the Dáil and I discovered that it was more than one-fifth of the time that had been allotted for the discussion on the Estimates. I understood it would have been generally agreed that the question could be put to the House to-morrow night at 10.30. The Minister for Education, in order to be present here, put off appointments on to-day and to-morrow. If the House is not satisfied that there is sufficient time in which to discuss the Estimates, it will simply mean that we will be taking the Estimates to-day and to-morrow and then holding the debate over until next week. I am prepared to do that. As I say, I understood that the question would be taken to-morrow night and that the time I was allotting to the discussion was ample. If what I am suggesting is not acceptable to the House, I will not press it. The discussion on the original motion could be continued after to-morrow.
What time has the President allotted to the consideration of the two motions that are down for to-morrow evening?
I propose to have those two motions considered on Thursday after discussion on another motion of which, I understand, private notice has been given.
Have you received the consent of the movers of those motions for doing so?
I have not.
I think it is not fair to the mover of any motion that such a decision should be made in his absence, and that his motion should be taken on a day other than that originally fixed. I made arrangements on the understanding that the motion in my name would be taken on to-morrow, and the Deputies connected with the Farmers' Party also made arrangements accordingly. Now we are in the position that we have to put off until Thursday evening the business that we had arranged to transact to-morrow. I submit it is not fair to me and it is not fair to the Deputies connected with the Farmers' Party. I am not prepared to accept the suggestion put forward by the President.
I think it is quite discourteous to Deputies that the President should, without, as far as I know, any previous communication of any kind with anybody, endeavour to make a complete change in the programme set out for the Dáil. As I have already stated, the House adjourned for a week without having any tangible reason for so doing. Much of this legislation that is now placed on the Order Paper could, with an hour's, or two hours' foresight, have been dealt with during that week. Motions have been put down by two Deputies and the regular arrangements were made for discussing those motions. Now the President thinks he can come along and put everything aside. He tells us that because it suits the convenience of one Minister, the House itself must have no consideration. I protest emphatically against such procedure.
If I recollect aright, Deputy Johnson has mentioned more than twice—perhaps more than three times—what he has just mentioned now.
Perhaps I mentioned it four times.
What I mentioned when I was moving the adjournment before was that the arrangements made by the Minister were not made to suit his convenience. I am not going to make any apology for this arrangement. I have not done so and I do not intend to. I regret the Minister, by reason of another appointment, has had to make other arrangements which will interfere with the House.
It is not very much inconvenience if a motion put down for consideration on one day is taken for consideration on another day, and in any case it would not be done without the consent of the House. I am putting forward a motion for the approval of the House, and I have generally got accommodation in that direction. I have generally met any applications made to me in the same spirit as that in which members have met me. If the proposals which I have made do not meet with the approval of the House business may be shortened this week, and that is a matter about which Deputies must make up their minds. If the arrangements are not acceptable it is a matter for the House to decide.
I think that the President's alternative suggestion is one that probably would be better than his first suggestion. If I understood him aright, I understand that he was prepared to go on, in the regular course, with the Education Estimates this evening, and take the question in the regular course to-morrow, and if the Education Estimates are not finished they will be taken next week. Is that the suggestion?
Yes.
I think that would suit everybody.
Would the President give an undertaking before coming in and using his pen in this manner that he would discuss with Deputies who have motions down and would not push business aside without communicating with them as a matter of courtesy?
I cannot give that undertaking.
Question—"That the Dáil sit later than 8.30 and that the motion for the adjournment be taken not later than 10.30 p.m."—put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 29; Níl, 20.
Tá
- Earnán de Blaghd.
- Próinsias Bulfin.
- Séamus de Búrca.
- Louis J. D'Alton.
- Máighréad Ní Choileáin Bean
- Uí Dhrisceóil.
- Desmond Fitzgerald.
- Patrick Leonard.
- Donnchadh Mac Con Uladh.
- Liam Mac Cosgair.
- Patrick McGilligan.
- Eoin Mac Néill.
- Seoirse Mac Niocaill.
- John T. Nolan.
- Michael K. Noonan.
- Peadar O hAodha.
- Parthalán O Conchubhair.
- Conchubhar O Conghaile.
- Séamus O Dóláin.
- Peadar O Dubhghaill.
- Séamus O Leadáin.
- Fionán O Loingsigh.
- Pádraic O Máille.
- Risteárd O Maolchatha.
- Séamus O Murchadha.
- Pádraig A hOgáin (Gaillimh).
- Máirtín O Rodaigh.
- Seán O Súilleabháin.
- Caoimhghín O hUigín.
- Seán Príomhdhall.
Níl
- Pádraig Baxter.
- Seán Buitléir.
- Bryan R. Cooper.
- Séamus Eabhróid.
- John Good.
- Connor Hogan.
- Séamus Mac Cosgair.
- Tomás Mac Eoin.
- Pádraig Mac Fhlannchadha.
- Risteárd Mac Liam.
- Patrick J. Mulvany.
- Tomás de Nógla.
- Tomás O Conaill.
- Aodh O Cúlacháin.
- Liam O Daimhín.
- Eamon O Dubhghaill.
- Mícheál O hIfearnáin.
- Domhnall O Muirgheasa.
- Tadhg O Murchadha.
- Liam Thrift.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Dolan and P. Doyle; Níl, Deputies T.J. O'Connell and Morrissey.
Motion declared carried.