At question time I asked whether the Minister for Justice would be in a position on the adjournment to give the Dáil a report as to the treatment of a prisoner, Michael Carolan, at present in Mountjoy Gaol. There are serious rumours afloat that this man has been ill-treated. I am not prepared to give any proof of that. I have no proof, but there are rumours to the effect that this man has been ill-treated. I raise the question to give the Minister an opportunity of stating what the facts are.
AGRICULTURAL CREDIT SOCIETIES. - ADJOURNMENT DEBATE—TREATMENT OF A MOUNTJOY PRISONER.
The fact is that the prisoner has not been ill-treated.
Am I to understand from the Minister that the man is not in solitary confinement in a basement cell in Mountjoy?
Is the Minister not prepared to give the Dáil some information on the matter? He has got the file and is quite aware that there has been a considerable amount of agitation in respect of Michael Carolan. To treat the matter with that amount of lightness, carelessness and contempt, I think, is not doing justice to the requirements of the case. I ask the Minister, no matter how foolish the charge or how important it may be, to give the Dáil, at least, some information. The Deputy who has raised the matter in a courteous way is surely entitled to some consideration.
The Deputy asked me could I make any statement on rumours that were current, rumours for which he would take no responsibility, that this man had been ill-treated. I made the statement that he had not been ill-treated. The Deputy then asked me was I aware or whether it was a fact that the prisoner, Carolan, was in solitary confinement in a basement cell, was handcuffed or muffed or something of that sort.
Mr. BYRNE
I did not say he was handcuffed or muffed. There may be something else in your mind that you have slipped.
Nothing else. The prisoner is quite well, I am glad to say, and in receipt of the treatment proper to a prisoner of the division to which he was sentenced by the Court. The file is simply his personal file from the time that his case came under official notice.
Can the Minister say whether it is a fact that the prisoner, Michael Carolan, is at the present time, or was any time for the last week, in the ordinary category of prisoners in the same class? Has any exceptional treatment been meted out to him whether according to rules or otherwise? Is there any disciplinary treatment being imposed on him, and what is it? What is the offence for which this treatment has been applied? I do not know anything about him, but I can quite understand that the case that has been raised requires a fuller answer than the Minister has given.
My trouble is that no case has been made. I will deal with any case that is raised.
Will you give access to the prisoner so that people will know what has haooened? The Minister speaks of rumours; of course it must be rumours, and it is to dispel these rumours that the Minister should take advantage of this opportunity.
The following persons have had habitual access to the prison as members of the Visiting Committee:—Patrick Mahon, Esq., P.C., Upper Drumcondra; Hugh Treacy, Esq., P.C., Ryder's Row; Michael McGann, Esq., Iona Road; W. Moffatt-Wilson, Esq., 3 College Green; P.S. Walsh, Esq., Sandycove; Miss Angela Boland, 36 Merrion Square; Mrs. Lindsay, 88 Lr. Leeson Street. As to Michael Carolan and his conditions for the past week, Prisoner Carolan was sentenced by the Court to Second Division treatment. The Prison Authorities have to carry out this sentence strictly in accordance with the statutory rules of the Second Division. Prisoner Carolan was placed in a ward wholly separate from that occupied by prisoners of another class. Prisoners of the Second Division are entitled to two hours' exercise a day, which the Governor may increase if the arrangements of the prison admit. Prisoner Carolan was and is out at exercise all day. He has been in receipt of "D" diet, which is the best prison diet and is the diet received by untried prisoners. Prisoner Carolan is exercised with five other prisoners of the Second Division. Four of these are exactly similar to himself, being in prison for offences similar to his own, and the other is an embezzlement case. He gets the privileges as regards visits and letters allowed by the Second Division Rules. The prisoner is not satisfied to be treated according to the terms of his sentence but according to certain demands which he made and which cannot be conceded. He wishes to be accorded treatment along lines which he has set out on paper. These are beyond anything the sentence of the Court justifies, and it is not considered proper or possible to concede them. All the prison rules appropriate to a given class imply good behaviour, and when a prisoner is ill-behaved punishment is awarded. The punishment consists either of some positive punishment or deprivation of a privilege. The only punishment inflicted on Carolan since his committal is as follows:—
On November 12th prisoner was reported for persisting in shouting and whistling to the other prisoners in the ward after being cautioned several times and refusing to go back to his cell when ordered. For this he was placed for seven days on No. 2 punishment diet—this is the lightest form of punishment diet. He proceeded to break his windows and broke five panes of glass in his cell and the spy hole. He was put in restraint (not as a punishment) but to prevent further damage to prison property. When it was thought that he was sufficiently chastened the restraint was removed, being on for a total of five hours.
Since the 19th instant he is back on the normal Second Division treatment, and, while not well disposed to prison discipline, he is obeying the outward forms and working daily and exercising practically during all day-light hours.
The Dáil adjourned at 4.15 until Tuesday, November 24th, at 3 p.m.