I propose to take the business on the Orders of the Day as set out, with the exception of No. 5 (Courts of Justice Bill), which I propose should be discharged on Tuesday next. I also anticipate that we will not take No. 7 (Motion by the President: That the Dáil approves of the policy of the Minister for Education).
STATEMENTS MADE OUTSIDE DÁIL. - ORDER OF BUSINESS.
I would ask the President to agree to adjourn discussion of my motion until to-morrow. That arrangement will be more convenient for me, and it would also convenience a number of other Deputies.
I will undertake to give time for it to-morrow.
—The President intends to move for the discharge of Order No. 5, and also Order No. 7, so that these Orders will not be taken to-day. Order No. 11 (Shop Hours (Drapery Trades) Dublin and Districts (Amendment) Bill (Second Stage) will be taken at 7 o'clock, provided the debate will be concluded before 8.30. The motion by Deputy Roddy will not be taken, and the President is giving Government time for it to-morrow.
We are quite agreeable to that course.
After orders to-morrow.
With regard to the President's motion dealing with Order No. 7, I would like to know what the proposal is. I take it that it is obviously useless at this stage to proceed with the discussion of details of the Education Estimates, but there is a question on the motion which stands in the name of the President, and I suggest that it is important to consider the desirability of coming to a conclusion upon that motion and at as early a stage as is possible. If the motion is either carried or defeated, the future Minister for Education will take it either as approval or disapproval of the policy of the Ministry of Education in the past. As a motion has been moved by the President and discussed and is before the House, I think it is necessary that it should be concluded and a decision of the Dáil taken. It would be well that we should have that decision at the earliest possible date.
I am willing to consider any proposal for the insertion of this motion on another day. I do not think it is likely that it would lend itself to consideration by the House pending the appointment of a Minister for Education. I want at the same time to make it perfectly clear that as far as the Executive Council is concerned, it is quite prepared to give time for discussion of the Estimates as originally undertaken. I take it that the insertion of the motion will be a matter for agreement as to where it comes in.
The point I want to make is that by agreement the discussion of this motion was concluded, and then, on your suggestion and by your ruling, sir, no decision was taken at what might be considered the appropriate point in normal circumstances. The decision was deferred so that discussion of the details might be conducted in order. If that discussion of details is to be deferred until the new Minister for Education has made himself master of the departmental work, it means that a decision on the policy of the Ministry of Education is deferred for a considerable time. I submit that the circumstances require that a decision upon the debate which has already concluded in fact should be taken, and that the debate, since the original one was concluded, has been on the details of the Estimates.
I want to support Deputy Johnson, as I think he is on perfectly sound ground. The debate has really concluded, and I think the Dáil would like to decide this matter definitely. What the Executive Council's decision may be about the future Minister for Education need not influence the vote one way or another. It is a question of the policy of the Executive Council in education. It has been discussed and the debate is concluded, and I think the Dáil is prepared to deal with it now. I think that should be done.
May I suggest that if there are any points of detail that Deputies still wish to raise that could be done by framing supplementary estimates, which we have been told will be introduced for education, in such a manner as to allow them to cover any points that have not yet come up for discussion. That could be done by adding the words "and for other purposes" or something of the kind, in order that points of detail not yet discussed might be discussed, and at the same time a decision on the policy of the Ministers might be come to as soon as possible.
Does the President propose that this motion should be put?
I understand that is the suggestion of Deputies Johnson and Baxter.
What would be the result? Is there a Minister for Education?
I understand under a Constitutional requirement the Minister will continue to act until his successor is appointed. I think the Dáil, having had a discussion on this motion, on the policy of the Ministry of Education, and the invitation having been made on a motion of the President, it is eminently desirable that we should come to a decision, and that the motion be put at the earliest possible opportunity.
I think the question when the motion should be put is a matter that might be left open for consideration, at least, until to-morrow. The motion can be put on the Order Paper for to-morrow, so that the President might be in a position to look into the Constitutional aspects and make a statement. Would it meet with approval that the Order should be postponed until to-morrow, and that the President would decide what to do? Order No. 12, Deputy Roddy's motion, will be taken to-morrow after the usual Orders of the Day.