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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 4 Feb 1926

Vol. 14 No. 5

COMMITTEE ON FINANCE. - MONEY RESOLUTION—SCHOOL ATTENDANCE BILL, 1925.

I move:—

Go bhfuil sé oiriúnach a údarú go n-íocfar amach as airgead a sholáthróidh an tOireachtas na costaisíi a bhainfidh le haon Acht do chur in éifeacht a rithfar sa tSiosón so chun socrú do dhéanamh d'fhonn freastal leanbhaí i mbun-scoileanna do chur in áirithe, sé sin, costaisí seachas costaisí coistí freastail scoile agus coistí freastail scoile do scuireadh, luach saothair agus costaisí maoirseoirí a ceapfar chun dualgaisí coistí freastail scoile do scuireadh do chólíona, agus cúiteamh d'oifigigh choistí freastail scoile do scuireadh agus do mhaoirseoirí do scuireadh.

That it is expedient to authorise the payment out of moneys to be provided by the Oireachtas of the expenses of carrying into effect any Act of the present Session to make provision for ensuring the attendance of children at elementary schools, other than the expenses of school attendance committees and of dissolved school attendance committees, the remuneration and expenses of supervisors appointed to discharge the duties of dissolved school attendance committees, and compensation to officers of dissolved school attendance committees and of dissolved supervisors.

The message prescribed by the Constitution has been received from his Excellency the Governor-General. The charges which will ultimately fall upon the Exchequer as a result of the School Attendance Bill will probably be very considerable. There may be some small charges falling on the Exchequer as a result of the work devolving on the Gárda Síochána through the enforcement of the Bill, but the charges will mainly result from the increased number of teachers required, increased capitation grants, and, in addition, State assistance for the provision of additional school accommodation. It would be very difficult to fix any exact figure, but I think I would be safe in saying that, as the Bill stands, in a few years there would be an increased charge between £100,000 and £150,000.

There are amendments down increasing the age from 14 to 16 years. If, as a result of those amendments, the children between 14 and 16 years who are not at secondary schools, technical schools, who are not already at Primary schools or are not in apprenticeship, were to be compelled to attend the Primary schools, there would be ultimately a charge falling on the Exchequer for additional teachers and additional capitation grants of probably as much as £190,000 to £200,000.

I do not think it is to be anticipated that for some time all children who are not now attending school between those years will be compelled to attend school. Even if they were, such a heavy charge could not accrue for many years. The teachers could not actually be found, and I do not think accommodation would be available for some time. The position financially, so far as it can be estimated, is that if the Bill is passed, and if amendments are passed increasing the age from 14 to 16 years, there is the possibility of an ultimate extra charge of something like £350,000. I do not wish the Dáil to infer that in practice it would work out as high as that, but certainly the charge will be very considerable.

Is there taken into account in any substantial way the need for the provision of fresh buildings owing to the existing buildings becoming inadequate because of a better attendance at the schools?

The amount estimated allows for that to some extent.

I would like to ask the Minister to throw some little light on the last two words of his resolution, "dissolved supervisors." What is a dissolved supervisor? How do you dissolve him? Is it something of a lingering nature with boiling oil in it, or is it a comparatively painless process? Is the Minister in a position to give a guarantee that this process of dissolution will only be carried out in the presence of the Minister for Education? If the Minister for Education is present, then we will be assured that the process will be carried out in a humane manner.

It is intended that it will only be carried out in the due process of law. As a matter of fact, other words would serve as well. The word "discharge" would serve, but as the word "dissolved" is used in reference to the school attendance committee, the draughtsman, or somebody who should know, thought the same word could be applied to the supervisors. No physical harm is intended to anybody.

No inquest will be required?

Does the Minister take power in this resolution to provide for the amount of £350,000 in connection with this Bill? Does the resolution cover all that?

The monies will have to be voted as required. I am intimating to the Dáil that this measure has heavy financial. implications, amounting possibly to £350,000, though I do not think that it will work out so high as that. If one of the main amendments were passed, it probably would not be less than £250,000.

Surely it is quite obvious that no expenses in connection with the proposed Bill can add to the monies already proposed to be expended in the current financial year?

Certainly.

It is quite obvious, and I take it this resolution only provides expenses to the end of the present financial year.

The resolution does not provide any money; it simply provides authority for the expenditure of money in connection with an Act. The money must be obtained by bringing in an Estimate later on, and the purposes to which the money is devoted will appear in detail in the Estimate.

Quite so. It gives the Minister authority to pay out monies for these particular items?

A Bill is proposed to the Dáil. If it passes, the putting of the Act into operation will involve a certain charge on public funds. This Resolution is merely an intimation that such a charge will occur, and the Minister is showing the Dáil what the charge is calculated to be. It may be less, or it may be more, than what he indicates, but a calculation is always made to show approximately what the charge will be. In order to get authority to pay the money the Minister must go through another long process. Two stages for an Estimate, and five stages for a Bill.

This is one process?

It is one of the processes before they get the money.

Question put and agreed to. Resolution ordered to be reported.
The Dáil went out of Committee.
Resolution reported.

I move——

"That the Dail agree with the Committee in the Resolution."

Question put and agreed to.
The Dáil went into Committee.
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