I move that we sit later than 4 p.m. to finish the financial motions by the Minister for Finance, and the matter of which Deputy Johnson has given notice.
EXTENDED SITTING.
I must object to that proposal to sit later than 4 o'clock on Friday. There are many Deputies here who had no idea that this suggestion was going to be put forward, and they made other arrangements. I think it would be placing country Deputies in a position of great disadvantage if they have to remain later than 4 o'clock on Friday. They are not being treated fairly in this connection. We do not care up to what time we sit on the other three days of the week, but Friday is the day on which we would like to get to our homes. We are differently situated to Deputies who live in or near the city. I object to the proposal on behalf of the Farmers' Party.
I would like to remind Deputy Gorey that last year we sat until 6.15 p.m., until we had finished similar motions. I gave notice during the present week that the financial motions would be taken on three days, and I indicated that we were anxious to have them completed by that time.
I have no objection to sitting on Tuesday, but I have a strong objection to sitting to a later hour on Friday. I will continue to object to that procedure no matter what the circumstances are. I do not see any chance of finishing the debate to-day, either.
The object of the President is to have the debate concluded to-day.
And if it is not concluded to-day?
When the debate on this motion is concluded the next opportunity for a general discussion will arise on the Second Reading of the Finance Bill. The matter which I think is going to prolong the debate to-day is a discussion on tariffs rather than on anything else. If I am right in thinking that tariffs is the principal matter which remains for discussion, a discussion on tariffs could be arranged by agreement at a later stage. Take, for instance, the motion putting a tariff on imported oatmeal; it will be quite possible on the report of that resolution to take a general discussion on tariffs. There would be ample opportunity for a discussion on tariffs before we deal with the Finance Bill at all.
That might occur on a Friday, too.
It would be the duty of Deputy Gorey to get a promise from the President that that motion would not be brought forward on a Friday.
We will leave in a body in order to catch the 4 o'clock train.
In view of the discussion that has already taken place in regard to tariffs and the publicity given to those discussions I, for one, intend to deal with the question of tariffs and I would be disappointed if I were requested not to deal with it. In fact, I intend to make it the main subject of my speech.
It was not part of my suggestion that Deputies should be precluded from dealing with the question of tariffs to-day. The debate to-day could be finished at the usual hour, if that seems a desirable thing to do, but the discussion on tariffs could be continued by agreement on the Report Stage of one of the financial motions.
It is easy to recognise how difficult it will be to conclude the discussion if an exponent of tariffs makes a statement and then another Deputy is desirous of replying. The matter was introduced by Government Deputies and, in justice, other Deputies should be allowed to express their views on the subject freely. It is hardly fair to postpone the discussions —to cut into the discussions, as it were —and I do not think we would be justified in so deciding. I do not see much possibility of completing the debate on this matter at 6 o'clock.
I agree with Deputy Gorey as to the undesirability of asking people to stay here to a late hour on a Friday. It is very inconvenient for people who have business in the country. Like Deputy Heffernan, I also want to say something about tariffs; possibly to a great extent I may agree with Deputy Heffernan on that matter. Perhaps, under the circumstances, he would agree to waive a discussion on tariffs to-day, and let only the two of us, with perhaps one or two other Deputies who wish to speak, deal with the matter. Then next week, or on some other occasion, the debate could be resumed. If the discussion on tariffs goes on, it is inevitable that a considerable amount of time will be absorbed.
The tariff discussion had a very fine innings yesterday.
Yes, it had a very fine innings, but it was impossible for the Leas-Cheann Comhairle and myself to know what the views of Deputies would be. We both endeavoured—I will confide a little secret to the House—to call upon Deputies in the order of one for and one against the imposition of tariffs, but our efforts were completely foiled.
One of the Farmer Deputies came over to the Government Benches.
This is the only Friday we ask for in the year, and I think Deputies can give it to us.
You can have it, but we will not be here.
When does the President propose to take the Report Stage?
On 4th May.
The Report Stage of the financial motions will not be taken until 4th May, and if Deputies desire, we could postpone the discussion until then.
Do that and it will help Deputies to gather further ammunition.
Could it be arranged that Deputy Heffernan and one other Deputy who desires to speak against protection would speak to-day? If they were given complete scope to-day and the discussion was then postponed until next Tuesday week, would that satisfy the House? In May this discussion will again arise on the Finance Bill, and I would be prepared, seeing the importance of the subject, to take a particular motion on Report and allow the widest possible discussion on tariffs, if the House so agrees. Of course, I am not insisting on anything.
Naturally, I am quite willing to accept your suggestion, but other Deputies may be anxious to say something. Your suggestion falls in with my ideas all right.
I do not think any special preference should be given.
Suppose we postpone until 2 o'clock the discussion as to whether we will sit late?
Very well.
When will we take Deputy Johnson's motion?
I am prepared further to postpone the motion as I think I still have a few days left.
Then we may take it that disposes of the private business.
I gave an undertaking to Deputy Davin last week that I would not introduce the Railways (Existing Officers and Servants) Bill until Tuesday. Now the Court officers Bill is pressing and I propose, in the absence of an objection from Deputy Davin, to put down the Court Officers Bill as the first business on Tuesday and take the Railways (Existing Officers and Servants) Bill on Wednesday.
On behalf of Deputy Davin I agree to that. In fact, I am prepared to agree to a proposal to postpone the Railways (Existing Officers and Servants) Bill for another week or another month.
Did the President not say yesterday that he would let the House know what Estimates were to be taken next week?
The Office of the Minister for Justice, the Gárdaí Síothchána, Public Record Office, Commissioners of Charitable Donations and Bequests, and the Army.
Could the President say on what day he proposes to take these?
I should say not earlier than Wednesday, having regard to the items that are down for Tuesday, the Court Officers Bill, with the Railways Bill hanging like Mahomet's coffin, and the Damage to Property Bill. The Shop Hours (Drapery Trades) Bill and the Unemployment Insurance Bill are also down, so that I do not think we could reach the Estimates on Tuesday.
Or Wednesday, or perhaps Thursday or Friday.
The position amounts to this, that the Estimates, when taken, will be taken in the following order:—No. 31, Office of the Minister for Justice; No. 32, Gárdaí Síothchána; No. 33, General Prisons Board; No. 38, Public Record Office; No. 39, Charitable Donations and Bequests; and No. 63, Army.
As regards this general matter of procedure, there was, I think, a pretty definite understanding last year that we should have clearly set apart a day or days in each week on which we would have the Estimates, and I think it would be very desirable if we knew that on certain days Estimates would be taken and no other business. I think it is quite undesirable that we should be in the air and have the taking of the Estimates dependent upon the possibilities of other discussions. If we could know definitely on a Thursday or Friday that we were taking a particular set of estimates on the following Tuesday, we would know exactly where we were, but if we have to wait until we find out what happens to other Bills, the conduct of the business of discussing the Estimates will not be done satisfactorily.
I should be in a position by Tuesday, or Wednesday at the latest, to indicate definite days for the Estimates, but I would like to have the advantage of the experience of these two days before making any announcement. I would then undertake that two days a week for the remainder of the Session be devoted to estimates.
The Dáil went into Committee on Finance.