I understand that, but I do know that there are people who think that the members of the Board should do everything that a Deputy asks them to do. Representations are sometimes made by Deputies about people in their own constituencies whom they declare to have been extra good men in the Volunteer days, but when they are asked to swear to the truth of their statements, they decline to do so. Yet statements are made, day after day, that people are not getting justice from this Board. If people would come along with cases that they could stand over and that they were prepared to give evidence on oath about, I am sure the majority of these cases would be heard, and pensions would be granted, but when people come along and try to bolster up a case where there is no case, that is what gives rise to the trouble and annoyance that I get sometimes, and that Deputies get. I think in justice to the Board, to the Department and to myself, that I should read a statement that I have here in connection with the matter. The statement is:—
The Military Service Pensions Act, 1924, was passed on 5th August, 1924. The Board of Assessors under the Act was set up by the President and Minister for Defence by Minute dated 4th October, 1924. The Board's immediate work was to draft and recommend Rules and Regulations under the Act. These were signed by the Minister on the 20th October, 1924. Forms of application were then issued to all requiring them. The date within which application could be made was ultimately extended from 1/3/'25 to 31/12/'25. The importance and extent of the Board's work may be gauged from the fact that applications were received from no less than 21,500 persons. These represented claims for pensions estimated to amount to between two and two and a quarter millions per annum. With the knowledge of the enormous amount of this claim, and the absence of official records of the pre-Truce and early National Army days, the Board was faced with the problem of producing a machinery of investigation which, while sufficient to enable the work of assessment to be carried out to their satisfaction, would not be unduly expensive on the individual or on the State. A very large proportion of the application forms received had to be returned to applicants for amendment in respect of one or more of the following points:—
1. Incomplete particulars given as to the periods of Volunteer Service claimed.
2. Failure of applicant to sign his application or to have his signature witnessed.
3. Failure of applicant to name the prescribed number of references, or to name references from the prescribed classes.
4. Insufficient particulars given of service in the National Forces or Defence Forces to enable search to be made in Army records, etc.
All applications were minutely examined, and where it appeared on the face of any that the applicant did not prima facie give the service which entitled him to any consideration under the Act, he was notified accordingly, and a correspondence opened on his eligibility or otherwise. On final review of all such applications and correspondence, ultimately between 13,000 and 14,000 were segregated where the Board were satisfied that the service claimed was sufficient to bring applicant within scope of Act.
Investigation of these claims then proceeded on the following lines:—
(a) References for pre-Truce service were issued with an exhaustive questionnaire regarding applicant's activities during the different periods set out in the Act—an average of eight references were communicated with per applicant. (b) Even with reference to service in the National Forces, a large volume of correspondence by forms and typed letters is necessary. In a great many cases the Army Departments are unable to certify service, especially of those applicants whose service terminated prior to the 1st January, 1923. (c) In the cases of applicants claiming service between 1/7/22 and 30/9/23 in the Criminal Investigation Department, Protective Corps, Citizen Defence Force, etc., special correspondence is conducted with the applicants and with the Department of Justice before the preliminary investigation of any such case can be completed. (d) When the preliminary investigation of an application is completed, arrangements for the oral examination of the applicant are made. Applicants, except those serving in the Army, have been given a list of thirty-seven Provincial Centres and Dublin, from which to choose the place at which they desired to have their oral evidence taken. Arrangements for attendance before the Board of applicants still serving in the Army are made through the Army Authorities. In some thousands of cases the invitation to choose a centre had to be issued twice, and in about two thousand cases a third time before the final lists of applicants who wished to be examined at each of the Provincial Centres and at Dublin could be completed. Some hundreds of applicants, however, had no sooner notified their choice and office arrangements had been made accordingly, than they wished to be examined at some other centre. The preparation of lists of applicants, of files, etc., for hearings was much impeded both by delay of applicants in making a choice of centre and by desire to change subsequently.
Particulars of the places at which oral evidence was taken, the order in which the sittings were held, the number of applicants examined, and the total examined up to and including the 17/4/'26 are as follows:—
Order of Sitting.
|
Place.
|
No. of applicants examined.
|
1
|
Dublin
|
3,020
|
2
|
Mullingar
|
108
|
3
|
Naas
|
187
|
4
|
Carlow
|
249
|
5
|
Port Laoighise
|
187
|
6
|
Mallow
|
89
|
7
|
Cork
|
555
|
8
|
Tullamore
|
91
|
9
|
Oldcastle
|
62
|
10
|
Navan
|
276
|
11
|
Athlone
|
190
|
12
|
Ballinasloe
|
84
|
13
|
Galway
|
228
|
14
|
Claremorris
|
79
|
15
|
Castlebar
|
68
|
16
|
Ballina
|
58
|
17
|
Sligo
|
162
|
18
|
Bantry
|
109
|
19
|
Caherciveen
|
71
|
20
|
Tralee
|
229
|
21
|
Limerick
|
448
|
22
|
Nenagh
|
55
|
23
|
Ennis
|
332
|
24
|
Donegal
|
103
|
25
|
Dungloe
|
137
|
26
|
Letterkenny
|
124
|
27
|
Buncrana
|
261
|
28
|
Enniscorthy
|
185
|
29
|
Waterford
|
114
|
30
|
Dundalk
|
291
|
31
|
Clones
|
294
|
32
|
Cavan
|
222
|
33
|
Carrick-on-Shannon
|
86
|
34
|
Roscommon
|
115
|
35
|
Longford
|
229
|
36
|
Kilkenny
|
312
|
37
|
Templemore (only applicants serving n the Army were examined)
|
53
|
38
|
Thurles
|
279
|
39
|
Tipperary
|
118
|
40
|
Curragh Camp (only applicants serving in the Army were examined)
|
210
|
|
Grand total on the 17/4/'26
|
9,870
|
When replies are received to queries issued to applicants, references and Army Departments and the oral examination of the applicant is completed, an examination of the evidence in the file is made. If necessary, further correspondence is initiated to complete the file for submission to the Board for decision. About 75 per cent. of the applications classed as "eligible" have been received from persons who in fact are not able to establish their claims to have rendered military service in accordance with the terms of the Military Service Pensions, Act, 1924. Following the ordinary investigation of each case and its submismission to the Board, notice of the intention of the Board to report against an applicant must, in accordance with paragraph 8 (a) of the Military Service Pensions Regulations, 1925, be issued to him. Practically all to whom this notice is issued reply thereto naming additional references, giving further details of military service, etc.. and a large volume of queries have then to be issued before the case can be resubmitted to the Board for final decision. This notice of the intention of the Board to report "Nil" in respect of military service has been issued to 6,010 applicants up to and including the 17/4/26. Very few of them in replying have named less than five additional references, and a majority of them have named twice that number. To date, in about three thousand cases, special difficulties have arisen in connection with the speedy and adequate investigation of the applications, e.g., in cases of applicants who have died since making application; in cases of applicants now resident overseas; in cases where the statements of applicants and references are contradictory; and in cases where the ranks held, e.g., in Criminal Investigation Department or in the Marine Investigation Department are not included in those mentioned in the Military Service Pensions Act. Much correspondence and special investigation is required in such cases before they can be made ready for submission to the Board for decision. To meet the difficulty in the cases of applicants resident overseas a form of affidavit has been prepared and is issued to such applicants. They are invited to testify specifically as to the military services rendered by them, with necessary dates. The despatch of forms, etc., to applicants resident in certain counties has entailed many difficulties, and called for special arrangements outside the ordinary postal facilities. In those cases where the available evidence satisfies the Board, a draft report is prepared setting out the periods of service assessed, the name of the force in which service was rendered, the rank of the applicant, and the total (in years) for pension purposes of the service awarded by the Board. Two copies of this draft are made and, when carefully checked, are submitted to the Board for signature by at least two members. One signed copy is then passed to the Minister for Defence, and a notification of this fact is immediately issued to the applicant, and also to any persons, e.g., Solicitors, T.D.'s etc., who have been writing in reference to the particular application. The second signed copy is retained on the file in the Board's Office. Meetings of the Board have been held for the purpose of final decision of applications on 118 days. At these meetings questions of policy, of procedure to be followed, etc., were also discussed and decided. Of the 13,606 applicants whose cases are classed as "eligible" 9,870 have been orally examined before the Board. In a good many cases the applicants and references have also been orally examined by the Board, on a second and third occasion, because of the contradictory nature of the evidence submitted.
The reports which have been passed to the Minister up to and including 17/4/26 may be classified as follows:—
No. of reports not qualifying applicants to pension
|
2410
|
No. of reports qualifying applicants to pension
|
1635
|
Grand Total
|
4045
|
The number of "eligible" applicants whose cases have not yet been reported on is 9,561. Of this number approximately 4,000 applicants have been notified that the Board propose to report "Nil" in respect of military service, in the absence of more satisfactory evidence to be furnished within twenty-one days of the date of issue of the notification referred to.
Some idea of the volume of work involved in the correspondence already referred to may be obtained after consideration of the following particulars. Two series of forms are in use. One series—all of which are printed—includes thirteen separate forms continuously in use in this office. The second series—stencil forms—total twenty separate forms which are in daily use. The total number of all kinds issued between the 4/10/24 and the 17/4/26 is not less than 180,000. In addition about 12,000 typed letters have been issued to applicants, references, solicitors, T.D's., Department of Defence, etc., many of which were of a highly important and confidential nature, involving careful consideration of the principles and policy guiding the Board in their procedure. Throughout the period since the appointment of the Board, the volume of correspondence received and issued each day has been considerable. The average number of letters received has not been less than 500 a day, and during some months the total received averaged over 1,000 a day; all of which required attention, e.g., acknowledgment, attachment to relative file, reply by forms or typed letters. The outgoing correspondence during most of the period since the Board's appointment has averaged slightly over 500 letters a day, frequently exceeding six hundred letters a day, and for short periods averaging as high as seven hundred and fifty letters a day. To summarise, a very large number of persons to whom the Military Service Pensions Act did not apply made applications. Quite a large proportion even of those classified as "eligible" have proved on investigation not to be qualified for pension under the Act. In respect of service in the Volunteers of which no official records exist, the investigation of applications involves very serious difficulty, and a huge volume of correspondence. Proof of service in the National Army in the months following the 1/7/22 is not available in a large number of cases, and much correspondence is usually necessary before the matter can be definitely determined. It is to be noted that outside military centres much difficulty was experienced in acquiring accommodation suitable to the large number of witnesses. Applicants who receive notification of the intention of the Board to report against them make very exhaustive efforts to establish their claims to have rendered military service within the meaning of the Act. This is the starting point of what in fact is a reinvestigation of each applicant's case, calling for the issue of many queries and subsequently very careful sifting of all the evidence submitted.
In addition, questions of policy; difficulties as to the rank of applicants in special cases; appeals against the Board's decisions; Dáil Questions; service outside Saorstát Eireann; investigation of the applications of persons at present resident in the Six Counties; interpretation of the Military Service Pensions Act and Regulations, etc., etc., frequently occupy the attention of the Board.
That statement gives a rough idea of what the Board has got to do and what it has been doing since it was inaugurated. I merely present that to show the House and the public the amount of work and the class of work the Board has to attend to. It is very exacting work. The Board is there standing between the taxpayer and the individual in all those cases, and it takes an amount of perseverance and a good deal of time to get exactly at the position as regards each case. I suppose there are very few cases that are just quite similar. In every case they must take first and foremost the evidence of the applicant, his demeanour, and the evidence of people he brings forward. I may say that in a great many cases the applicants give references to people who can testify to their services, and these references when sent out for verification are never returned to the Board. I have come across that time and time again myself. It is the fault in many cases of the people to whom these forms are sent. They do not fill them. Perhaps they cannot fill them if they are to do it conscientiously; therefore they never fill them up. If these references were sent back immediately, and if everything that the Board asks were done, the work would be made considerably lighter for the Board, and the whole machinery could be expedited; but while all this juggling is going on—people trying by all manner of means to get their cases heard and to get pensions—it is very hard for the Board, acting as it is between the State and the individual, to come to conclusions in these cases. I do not know that there is anything further I have got to say on the matter.