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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 25 Jan 1927

Vol. 18 No. 1

ORDUITHE AN LAE—ORDERS OF THE DAY. - PROVISIONAL COLLECTION OF TAXES BILL, 1926—SECOND STAGE.

I move the Second Reading of this Bill. Its purpose is to put beyond doubt the legal validity of the procedure which we have followed heretofore. Deputies may be aware that the procedure we have followed was the procedure for a very long time in Great Britain, and no difficulties arose until 1913. In 1913, Mr. Gibson Bowles challenged the collection of income tax before the passage of the Finance Act, and he was upheld in the courts there. As a result of the judgement that was given, a Provisional Collection of Taxes Act was passed in Great Britain, and the only matter that was argued before the courts was income tax. In regard to customs duties, there were certain passages in legislation which left it much in doubt as to whether the court would have given the same judgement in regard to customs duties as it did in regard to income tax. As a matter of fact, afterwards, in 1915, the new import duties were imposed by resolution of the House of Commons and were collected before the passage of the Finance Act. There is no doubt that while the court might have given a different decision in a customs case from the decision it gave in the income tax case, on the other hand it might have given the same decision; and the position in England appears to be now that it is not thought safe to collect customs duties before the passage of the Finance Act. In recent years, for instance, when the McKenna duties were reimposed they were not collected until the Finance Act was passed. Apparently there was a doubt as to whether an action in the courts might not produce a decision that the collection was illegal. We have certain other difficulties. A difficulty arose in this way, that under the existing Provisional Collection of Taxes Act we might renew an existing duty by resolution and collect, or we might renew it with modifications, or we might modify the existing duty and, for instance, increase and quadruple it and collect, but we cannot, under the existing Provisional Collection of Taxes Act, collect a new duty or abolish a duty. In so far as we have done that heretofore, we have been relying on certain odd provisions in the Customs Act of 1876, and we are advised that it is doubtful whether a challenge to our collection might not be successful. As I have said, from the procedure that has been adopted the opinion appears to prevail in England that such a challenge would be successful. We desire, therefore, to give legal sanction that cannot be doubted to the procedure that has been followed heretofore. There is another difficulty even with regard to taxes that are covered by the existing Provisional Collection of Taxes Act. There is a provision as to using the powers given in that particular Act only once in a session. In Great Britain, they have sessions that do not run for several years, as ours do.

For instance, it is quite probable that last year if anybody had challenged the collection of income tax, after the expiration of the previous period and before the Finance Act had been passed, they might have successfully done so. It seems to me the procedure provided in the Provisional Collection of Taxes Act is one that cannot be subject to any serious criticism. It continued the procedure that always existed in England up to 1913. Deputies, I think, are familiar with it. What happens is that Budget Resolutions are introduced in Committee on Finance. After they are passed by the House they given authority for the collection of tax on whatever basis may be embodied in the resolution. Within the next ten sitting days of the Dáil, after the passage of that resolution in Committee, the Dáil must adopt the resolution with or without amendment. If the Dáil does not adopt the resolution in that way within ten sitting days the power to collect the tax lapses. Within twenty sitting days after the passage of the confirming resolution in the Dáil the Second Stage of a Bill embodying the resolution must be passed by the Dáil, and if not so passed within twenty sitting days, then the power to collect lapses. Finally, legislation enacting the provisions of the original Budget Resolution, with or without amendment, must be passed within four months of the introduction of the resolution or the power to collect lapses. If any money is collected under the resolution which would not be collectable under the Bill by reason of an amendment having been adopted, repayment must be made. For instance, if we had in our resolutions fixed the apparel duty at 20 per cent. and if afterwards the House reduced the duty to 15 per cent., anyone who might have paid the 20 per cent. under the resolution would be entitled to a refund, as being only liable to the 15 per cent. It seems to me that it is absolutely necessary to put our legal powers beyond doubt in case we were successfully challenged in regard to any tax which was being collected.

Including death duties.

Death duties are a permanent tax, and it does not matter there. Income tax is an annual tax and it is more important. Death duties are a permanent tax and are not altered from year to year. They would not be affected by this Bill. But if any annual tax was successfully challenged no collection could be made for three or four months while the Finance Bill was being passed, and a great deal of confusion and inconvenience would be caused to people, including those who might refuse to pay during the period.

I will take this opportunity of asking some questions about death duties. There are two or three cases concerned in my constituency. One case came under my notice this week where the death took place in 1918. Probate was taken out and accepted by the Revenue Commissioners. The whole business was disposed of and the duty paid. When this Government came along in 1922-23 they sent out valuers who made a re-valuation. An additional claim for hundreds of pounds was then sent to the people concerned. The original valuation was increased 100 per cent. I can bring papers and figures to prove that. Unfortunately for the farmers concerned, the Commissioners were sent down when the value of land was at its peak. The result was that the previous valuation was increased by 100 per cent. and new demands made. These poor people had not great educational advantages and would have to employ agents to see after their business. The amount was so small that they were afraid to go to the Law Courts and challenge the claims of the Commissioners. As a result they have been mulcted. They were crows to pluck and, so far as I know, they have been plucked unmercifully. I would like to know if there is any law to enforce such a claim. Is it only a question of frightening the unfortunate victims because they are afraid to go to the Law Courts and challenge the Commissioners' right to make these claims, eight or nine years after the death took place, especially as the matter had been disposed of by another Government?

There is another case where a cheque was handed to a solicitor three years ago to meet a claim. It was not paid by that particular solicitor. He kept it, and has given no account of it. His explanation, probably, is that it is for his own fees. Here we have an additional claim made on the unfortunate man concerned for interest on money that should have been paid three years ago, or that should not have been paid at all, as the matter was one of doubt. I have two or three of these cases. It is a scandal.

I am afraid this scarcely arises under this particular Bill.

I do not know if it does, but I took the opportunity to raise it.

Death duties are a permanent tax and are not renewable from year to year. I have not the particulars before me in order to satisfactorily answer the Deputy now. If the death occurred in 1918 the land would be valued as at the death, and it would not be valued on the higher price that prevailed a year or two later. I am not sure if the price rose between 1921 and 1922.

What right was there to send down men at all?

In any case there was probably some provisional settlement in the first instance, and a certain sum paid on account. The value is determined not by the Revenue Commissioners, nor by any officer of theirs, but by a special officer over the appointment of whom the Government has no control. He is appointed by a Committee consisting of the Chief Justice, the President of the High Court, and the President of the Surveyors' Institute.

He served the purpose anyway.

We have no control over him. He is an independent officer and I understand he is an officer who is extremely capable and gives general satisfaction.

I cannot claim to have examined this Bill or its implications, but I would ask the Minister whether he has consulted the officers of the Dáil, for instance, and whether he has considered consulting the Committee on Procedure in regard to the Time Table in Resolution 4. It is, perhaps, worthy of consideration from the point of view of general procedure. I can imagine, for instance, a Budget resolution being submitted containing many knotty and difficult points that would require long discussion and that would not be agreed to within the ten days between the date of introduction and the date of decision, and I am not quite sure what is going to happen. I should like to ask the Minister what is meant by the phrase, "whichever of the following events first occur," that is to say, an event which does not happen. One of the events named here is, "if the resolution is not agreed to." I cannot conceive that as an event. If it is still in process of discussion, the fact that it is not agreed to does not make it an event. However, that is a point in drafting. On the general point I think it is desirable that on the question of time—ten days after the resolution has been submitted and so on—the various tables in Section 4 ought to be, if they have not already been, discussed with the Ceann Comhairle and his staff, the Clerk of the Dáil, etc., and perhaps the Committee on Procedure, merely on the technical point.

I would be quite agreeable to that. I had some discussion with the Ceann Comhairle on this matter—I do not know that his staff was formally consulted—but I did discuss this particular Table with the Ceann Comhairle. I would be glad, without delaying the Bill unduly, if the matter were considered by the Committee of Procedure, to give the most favourable consideration to their suggestions. We simply took the Time Table that was in existence already. I do not think it was examined in the way it would be examined if we had not had an existing Time Table to adopt.

Question put and agreed to.
Third Stage fixed for Thursday, February 3rd.
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