I regret to learn from Deputy Davin that he is detained to-day owing to a family bereavement and I understand from him that Deputy Tadhg Murphy will move the motion standing in his name.
ELECTION OF LEAS-CHEANN COMHAIRLE.
Mr. MURPHY
In the absence of Deputy Davin, I move the motion: "That Deputy Daniel Morrissey be appointed Leas-Cheann Comhairle." I feel that if the selection that we are suggesting for this vacancy is agreed to, the result will show that a fit and proper person has been appointed to fill this position. The position is one that ought to carry with it many qualifications. It is obvious that the person selected to fill this position will be required to display a very considerable amount of tact and a very considerable amount of ability in order to fill the position satisfactorily. Deputy Morrissey is, in my opinion, eminently fitted for this position in view of the fact that he has very close knowledge, and, if I might say so, a very thorough grip of the procedure of this House; that he has displayed very conspicuous industry and ability as a Deputy here and that, I think, ought to commend itself to the House in making a selection of this kind. There are other considerations also, and one, and an important one, is that the Deputy selected to fill this position ought to be detached, as far as possible, from the violent controversies that separate the two big Parties in this House. He has had the advantage of serving on more than one occasion on the Public Accounts Committee set up by the Dáil. He has been a member of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges that provides the machine whereby the procedure of this House is regulated, and he has profited very much by the undoubted advantage he has had through being a member of this House since 1922. The candidate for this position in order to be the most suitable candidate should, in my opinion, also, no matter from what party he is drawn, be able to rise above the interests of party and the controversies that rage round parties occasionally. If I might strike a personal note in this matter, I would like to say that on a recent occasion Deputy Morrissey made a very notable contribution towards the desire to rise above party controversy in this House. I would like to say also, if I might say so, that if his advice on that occasion had been followed the result would be a more happy one for the country and particularly for the level of debate in this House. May I say also that in my opinion a suitable candidate for this position could not be found except that candidate accepted fully and unequivocally the constitutional position as laid down by this House?
I would like to anticipate very briefly one at least of the arguments that I assume will be used in resisting this nomination. It will be said that Deputy Morrissey has not a competent knowledge of Irish. I would like to feel that we could agree on a candidate who would have a competent knowledge of Irish but who at the same time would have a competent knowledge of the procedure of this House and without saying anything derogatory towards the idea that an Irish-speaking candidate should be selected, I feel that a clear and full acquaintance with the procedure of this House and a capacity for carrying out properly the very many and onerous duties that are attached to the office are necessary. May I say that for the last two or three years I have altered my opinion as to the amount of work that has to be put in by a man who has to fill this position properly. I would like to say that in my opinion, the consideration of selecting a man who has a very full knowledge of the procedure of this House is the most important consideration that should attach to the work of selecting a Deputy competent for this office. I feel that Deputy Morrissey will fill the office with credit not only to the Party that he has been associated with, but with great credit to this House. I have very great pleasure in submitting the name of Deputy Morrissey for the office of Leas-Cheann Comhairle.
I formally second the motion.
I regret that I have to oppose the motion that has been made. As the proposer himself indicated, there is one objection which to my mind, is a vital one to the motion. It is that the Deputy who is nominated has not a knowledge of Irish which would enable him to discharge competently the duties in contingencies that are bound to arise. I want to say that our Party has not coveted this position at all. We postponed taking action until we saw that the two nominations which were sent out originally were nominations of Deputies who did not know Irish. Then I sent to the Ceann Comhairle an amendment that the appointment of Leas-Cheann Comhairle should not be proceeded with until the Dáil has decided on the question as to whether a competent knowledge of Irish should not be a necessary qualification for the Leas-Cheann Comhairle. The Ceann Comhairle ruled that that could not be regarded as a proper amendment inasmuch as it might be regarded and would be a precedent for a series of dilatory amendments, simply amendments putting the thing off.
When I found that was the case and saw that the appointment would certainly be made—unless we put forward a candidate—that an appointment would be made of a Deputy who did not know Irish, I took it upon myself to prevail upon Deputy Seán T. O'Kelly to allow himself to be nominated for this position. I may say that I succeeded only after hours of effort. The one way in which I got Deputy O'Kelly finally to allow his name to go forward was that it was his duty, as one who believed in maintaining the status of the Irish language and who believed in bringing back the Irish as a spoken language, to allow his name to be submitted. Our attitude to this matter should be clear to every Deputy in the House; first of all as regards the position itself. When we came here, according to the accounts that had been given to us of the duties of the position, our belief was that it was one that could be very well filled by any Deputy here without having it regarded as a permanent appointment at all—purely an honorary appointment. We were anxious to have the position defined and we put down on the paper a motion that the duties should be defined and that the question of how far it would be possible for a Deputy to hold the office of Leas-Cheann Comhairle and to hold it consistent with the obligations which, as an elected Deputy, should be regarded as his chief obligations.
Since we put down that motion the Committee on Privileges has reported, and anybody reading that report will be convinced that to carry out the duties of Leas-Cheann Comhairle properly will certainly require the whole time of any Deputy. As is indicated in the report, he has to look after Private Bills and he has to be in a position generally to deputise for the Ceann Comhairle in case of absence. Then he has to look after the office work and so on. Take the particular position of deputising for the Ceann Comhairle. How can a Deputy who does not know Irish properly deputies for him in his absence? He cannot do it. There are questions which are bound to come up for decision which will depend largely on the proper interpretation of language and its implications. Although I am ready to concede that he will have expert advisers in the Clerk, and other officials, on the language question, I think that in order to come to a proper decision on matters of this kind he should know the language himself, and having heard such advice as he might get, he ought to be able to form an independent judgment and take an independent attitude. Deputy Morrissey will not be able to do that. These are the only considerations which urged me, I may say almost entirely personally, to nominate Deputy O'Kelly. I took this action almost personally. Our Party had not an opportunity of meeting, and I took it because I felt that it was our duty not to let this go by default, lest it should be said that a suitable Irish speaker could not be found.
As far as Deputy O'Kelly's suitability for the position is concerned, anybody who has ever been at any public assembly over which he presided knows that he possesses all those qualities which the proposer of the resolution has indicated as being necessary for the Chair. Everybody who knows him knows that he is tactful.
A DEPUTY
What!
He is a fighter, but in the Chair—and I say this knowing that what I say will be heard by large numbers of people who have had an opportunity of judging—he is a very different man from the man he is when, as a Deputy, he is opposing things he does not like. Our position generally with respect to the Vice-Chair is that we believe there is no use in pretending that whoever is chosen either for the Chair or the Vice-Chair is not going to be chosen from one of the Parties. When he takes that position he is not going to cut himself off completely from all Party associations and give up all his ideas and principles. He carries these, we presume, with him. What we expect is that when he comes into the Chair he will regard himself as being bound to show fair play and put his own personal position aside. I am convinced that if the Dáil should select Deputy O'Kelly as Leas-Cheann Comhairle he will be an honour to himself and generally to the cause he represents. I am perfectly certain, as one who has seen him preside, that there will be no objection from the point of view that he is acting in a partisan manner.
Our attitude with respect to the position of the Leas-Cheann Comhairle in relation to his constituency is this: The Ceann Comhairle, by not having to be elected, is in a peculiarly privileged position. The Leas-Cheann Comhairle is not in that position. If we had our way, the rule would be that the Deputy in the Chair, whether he was the Ceann Comhairle or the Leas-Cheann Comhairle, or the Deputy who was chosen for the office, would have an original vote on motions, but no casting vote, and if there was an equality of votes the motion would be lost. It is not necessary to indicate our views further on that. We have read carefully the recommendations of the Committee on Privileges. The Committee has recommended that the duties be not defined by Standing Orders, but that it be left to the discretion and what I may call the good taste of the Deputy himself to act in a proper manner while in the Chair.
The final point I want to speak about is the salary. We have in the past indicated very clearly that we regarded the salaries paid to the Ceann Comhairle and the Leas-Cheann Comhairle as being more than was right in this country at present. We hold that the salary of the Ceann Comhairle should be £1,000 instead of £1,700. Our Party, not now but months ago, decided that if this position should be a whole-time one, requiring the attention of the Deputy all the time, the complete salary— that is, taking into account his allowance as a Deputy, and so on—should not be more than £600. Deputy O'Kelly, as a member of our Party, if he were to take this position—and he is taking it solely to stand in the gap here in connection with Irish—would return to the Treasury £400 of the £1,000 which would come to him as salary. I have nothing further to say except that I hope this House will not appoint a non-Irish speaker to the Vice-Chair. There are many reasons why Irish is not spoken as much as it should be here, but such as it is we certainly do not want to limit it still further and to make it still more difficult for those who wish to speak Irish to speak it. Certainly that is likely to be the result of the election of somebody to the Vice-Chair who does not know Irish and will not be able to answer a question if addressed to him in that language.
There are two motions before the House and the procedure is that the motion first moved is put from the Chair.
I support the motion for the appointment of Deputy Morrissey. I agree that Deputy Morrissey is not an entirely ideal candidate for the reason that Deputy de Valera has stated. If it was possible to find a Deputy, who was fully qualified otherwise and who was an Irish speaker, then, that Deputy ought to be appointed. It seems to me that when we are appointing a Deputy-Speaker we must look at the question of the Irish language much in the same way as we look at it in making other appointments, such as appointments in the Civil Service. If appointments are being made to offices of a junior character that can only be filled by young people, who have just recently left school, we insist that there shall be Irish in every case. We have begun to insist upon oral, as well as written, tests. We have steadily increased our requirements in the matter of Irish. When we come further up the scale, and when we are dealing with appointments which can only be filled by people who have a certain experience, and people who must have been a good time left school, then, what we do is we give preference to people who have a knowledge of Irish. In certain particular cases we would scarcely make an appointment, at all, without a knowledge of Irish.
We would not, for instance, at the present stage, appoint an inspector of schools who had not a competent knowledge of Irish. But in most of the ordinary appointments what we do is we try to get a knowledge of Irish and we give a distinct preference to the candidate who has such knowledge. We cannot insist that members of the Dáil shall all possess a competent knowledge of Irish. We have not got to the stage when we could put a clause into an Electoral Bill to say that before any person can be nominated as a candidate he would have to show some evidence that he had a competent knowledge of Irish. We cannot insist that no person shall be accepted as Minister who has not a competent knowledge of Irish.
In the same way, when we come to the question of appointing the Leas-Cheann Comhairle, it seems to me that it is not the sort of position where a knowledge of Irish is absolutely essential. It is, undoubtedly, a position in which a knowledge of Irish would be an advantage. But as we all know, and it is an unfortunate fact, Irish is not a great deal spoken in the House and, even if it were a good deal more spoken than it is, it would not be necessary for the Leas-Cheann Comhairle to be able to follow it unless the Deputy who was speaking Irish was doing it for the purpose of saying something which he would not be allowed to say if the Leas-Cheann Comhairle understood what the Deputy was saying. That is so and as a matter of fact if people are going to use the Irish language in order to say things that they ought not to say they can be dealt with. As for the question of having a right to address whoever is presiding, and ask a question of that person in Irish, that is not a right which members will often exercise for the purpose of demonstration.
As a matter of fact, and I think everybody is aware of it, it was only the insistence of Ministers in answering questions in Irish that caused certain Deputies to put questions down in Irish, whom one would have expected to have put them down without such pressure.
Was it not a fact that questions put down in Irish were answered by Ministers in English?
Certainly and vice versa. Now the party to which I belong looked round to see if there was any member of their own who was suitable, and would accept the position of Leas-Cheann Comhairle, and who had a knowledge of Irish. We were unable to find any person in the party who had all these three things. There were some who had a knowledge of Irish, and who lacked experience, and did not feel confident of their ability to discharge the duties of Leas-Cheann Comhairle satisfactorily. There were others who had a knowledge of Irish and who were not so modest about their abilities but felt unable, for personal or business reasons, to accept the position. We looked at various other people outside the party with a view to suggesting to them that they should allow their names to go forward and, finally, we found ourselves in the position where the best thing seemed to be to allow the representatives of other parties to make nominations.
Deputy Murphy, in his speech, said that Deputy Morrissey had been in this House since 1922; that he had a good deal of experience of the work of the House, that he had not merely sat here and done his duty here but that he had also been a member of important committees. He said further that Deputy Morrissey had the attitude of mind towards the House, and towards the Constitution under which the House functions, that would ensure his discharging the duties of Leas-Cheann Comhairle satisfactorily and in such a way as to maintain and enhance the reputation and dignity of the House. It seems to me that Deputy Seán T. O'Kelly, the other candidate proposed, does not fulfil the requirements in two respects. First, he has only very recently come here, and although he may have had a good deal of experience of other assemblies, and may have discharged the duty of presiding over other assemblies, the task of the person called upon to preside over the work of the Dáil is a different sort of task, and a much more difficult task, and one which involves the decision of very intricate problems, and it seems to me to be a task that cannot be satisfactorily discharged by any man who has not had time for the procedure and requirements to sink into his mind and to give him the necessary outlook and the background on questions of order and procedure here.
There is also the question of outlook. It can be said that Deputy O'Kelly has scarcely concealed a certain degree of contempt for this institution, and certainly for the Constitution under which this House operates. These two things—that lack of experience and that attitude towards this House—are such as to make it impossible for him to discharge the duty satisfactorily, or for the House to rely upon him in discharging it satisfactorily.
I do not want to lay any stress on anything that Deputy O'Kelly said since he came here. There were one or two occasions on which I do not think that he was absolutely a model that members of the House should follow in the matter of order. But I am quite prepared to accept it that, if he was appointed as Leas-Cheann Comhairle and was presiding in this House, he would control his feelings and would not offend in any way and would endeavour to act in a non-partisan spirit. But the Leas-Cheann Comhairle has not merely to preside occasionally, but we must take it that at times the Ceann Comhairle would be absent for a considerable period, from illness or some such causes, and the Leas-Cheann Comhairle would then be in entire charge of the work of the House. It seems to me that, at the present stage, it would be impossible that other members of this House who have different views of its importance and its dignity, and of the attitude that should be created in the country in regard to it, would have the confidence in Deputy Seán T. O'Kelly that they should have before voting for him for this position.
I do not believe that the future of the Irish language or the spread of the Irish language depends so much on the sort of administration that one can give by insisting on electing an Irish speaker to the position of Leas-Cheann Comhairle or some office of that sort, as on the general policy, particularly as it operates in the schools and in the matter of appointments to which young people can aspire. I quite understand that a boy in a school will be made more keen to become competent in Irish, and that a teacher will be more keen to make him progress if, without such progress, he cannot get appointments in the Civil Service or even hope to become a dispensary doctor. But I do not think that the appointment of a Leas-Cheann Comhairle is going to influence the attitude of scholars or teachers.
We saw it stated in the newspapers that Deputy Roddy would be suitable to be Leas-Cheann Comhairle. It seems to me that it is much more important, from the point of view of the Irish language, to have Deputy Roddy where he is. Really, from the point of view of the language, and having regard to the fact that there is scarcely a single person in this House whose every-day language is Irish, I do not think that Irish is nearly as important a factor for the position of Leas-Cheann Comhairle as it is for any one of the hundreds of appointments throughout the country. Furthermore, we are not going to do any good to the Irish language by appointing some person, simply because he has Irish, to a position which he is not likely to fill satisfactorily. I believe that sort of thing will only have reactions which will do damage to the Irish language. I do not want to go back on history, but we have had experience of people who were not satisfactory. It simply means that people who have not got Irish themselves and who, perhaps, are indifferent in regard to it, are made hostile towards it if they see not merely competent men who have Irish getting preference, but men who, for any reason, are unfitted for positions given them because they have a knowledge of Irish. Therefore my view is that while I would have liked to see some member of this House who has had experience, and who has had an outlook with regard to the House that is desirable and who had also a knowledge of Irish put before us, in the circumstances I think that the House will be better served by Deputy Morrissey and, so far as I am concerned, and I think I speak for my colleagues, I will vote for him.
DOMHNALL O BUACHALLA
Dubhairt an tAire go raibh sé ar lorg duine ag a mbeadh an Ghaedhilg, imease a dhream féin, mar Leas-Cheann Comhairle. Más fíor é sin is léir gur táchtach an rud é go mbeadh an Ghaedhilg ag an Leas-Cheann Comhairle. Theip ar an Aire duine a fháil chun an t-ionad do líona, ach tá Teachta againn-ne, An Teachta Seán T. O Ceallaigh, atá in án Gaedhilg do labhairt agus atá in án an t-ionad do líona. Níl fhios agam cén fáth ná fuil an tAire sásta glaca leis an Teachta, Seán T. O Ceallaigh, mar Leas-Cheann Comhairle.
Tá a lán cainnte iniu ar an Ghaedhilge. Muna mbeadh £1,000 ag dul leis an bpost ní bheadh an méid cainnte ann agus do chualamar an tráthnóna seo. Tá daoiní nach bhfuil Gaedhilg acu ag cur síos ar an gceist. Ach do réir mo thuairime is measa na daoiní ag a bhfuil an Ghaedhilge agus ná labhrann í ná na daoiní nach bhfuil Gaedhilge acu ar chor ar bith—is measa sin don Ghaedhilge agus don tír. Níl aon mheas acu-san ar an nGaedhilg.
I think Deputy Mongan has called attention to the fact that there is a great number of people in this House who know Irish but do not speak it. Deputy Mongan should have told the country generally the reason for that. One of the principal reasons why Deputies who know Irish do not speak it is if they speak it they have got to write out their speeches afterwards. I wonder how many Deputies would speak if they had to write out their speeches in English? If this is supposed to be an assembly of Irish Deputies, to which the people are to look for a lead, then it should give them a lead in this matter of the Irish language. If there are to be handicaps on Deputies, the handicaps should be against Deputies speaking in English and not against Deputies speaking in Irish. We should have a set of reporters who would have a competent knowledge of the Irish language and who would be able to take down speeches in Irish and not be able to take down speeches in English. Then any Deputies who wanted to speak in English would have to write out their speeches. If that were done, I am perfectly certain that the reports would not be so bulky as they are to-day. I would not speak myself if I had to write out my speech afterwards, and I do not believe that there is any Deputy here who would. I was amazed when listening to the Minister for Finance here, to-day, on the question of Deputy O'Kelly's fitness for this position. He talked of his not being here from 1922. Deputy O'Kelly was unanimously elected Ceann Comhairle of the first Dáil, the first Parliament of Irish Deputies that met here for 100 years. Deputy O'Kelly has always proved himself to have the proper outlook towards the fundamental constitution—the constitution to which every assembly of Irish Deputies must look for any rights they may have. Deputy O'Kelly has, in short, the proper outlook towards the rights of the Irish people to freedom, and the use of whatever parliamentary machinery they have to bring about freedom. That is the proper attitude for any Deputy to have, and it is the proper attitude for the Leas-Cheann Comhairle to have, that the people of this country should get their freedom as soon as possible. The Minister for Finance says we have not got to the stage when we can insist on Deputies having a thorough knowledge of Irish, but we can insist on school children learning Irish. How long are we going to go on, I want to know, putting a handicap on Deputies speaking Irish in this House? How long are we going to go on keeping the present handicap? I think we should take off the handicap that exists at the present time and that we should get a staff thoroughly competent to report in Irish, even though they may not be fit to report in English, and that we should do that instead of putting on another handicap, that is electing a Leas-Cheann Comhairle who has not a knowledge of Irish. I would refer the Minister for Finance to Article 4 of the Constitution. Article 4 of the Constitution says: "The national language of the Irish Free State is the Irish language, but the English language shall be equally recognised as an official language."
The Irish language is the official language of this Dáil. The Leas-Cheann Comhairle is an official of this Dáil who is constantly in association with the members and, therefore, he should have a competent knowledge of the Irish language. I believe it would be very wrong for Deputies to elect anybody to the position who has not a thorough knowledge of the language.
Bhí Seán T. O Ceallaigh mar Cheann Comhairle ar an chéad Dáil agus bhí gach duine sásta leis. Thug sé cothrom na Féinne do gach taobh ins an chéad Dáil agus táim cinnte go dtabharfadh sé cothrom na Féinne do gach Teachta sa Tigh seo. Tá taithí aige ní hamháin ar obair na Dála ach tá taithí aige a fuair sé ina lán áiteacha agus ar a lán coistí eile. Dubhairt an tAire Airgid go mbíonn ceisteanna deacra le socrú ag an Leas-Cheann Comhairle agus ná raibh taithí againne atá ar an dtaoibh seo den Tigh. Sé sin le rá ná fuil éinne ar an dtaoibh seo den Tigh in án an t-ionad so do líona, ná fuil aon tseans ag Fianna Fáil duine do thogha toise ná fuil an taithí acu. Isé mo thuairim go bhfuil an t-údarás ceánna ag gach Teachta san Dáil seo— ag gach Teachta atá toghtha ag na daoine—is cuma cé'n dream ag a bhfuil baint aige leis. Dubhairt an Teachta, Seosamh O Mongáin, go raibh a lán cainnte ar an nGaedhilg toise go raibh £1,000 ag dul leis an bpost. Ní theastuíonn uainn go bhfaghfadh an Leas-Cheann Comhairle £1,000, ach £600. B'fhéidir go bhfuil an Teachta O Mongáin ag cabhrú leis an Teachta atá ullamh £1,000 do ghlaca. Is furas Gaedhilg do labhairt uaireannta ach is beag tuarasgabháil uirthi a bheidh ins na páipéirí nuachta muna sgríobhann tú amach í.
Ná bí ag cainnt ar na páipéirí nuachta. Sin an rud atá ag luighe oraibh.
Ní clóbhuailtear ins na páipéirí an méid adeirtear as Gaedhilg. Maídir liom féin, níor chuir mé aon óráid chun na bpáipéirí ach chonnaic mé tamall ó shoin tuarasgabháil san "Tribune." Ag teachta dála áirthid. Níl fhios agam cé a chuir chuca é.
Ní mise a rinne é.
Fágfaimíd Connacht agus an "Connacht Tribune" ar leataoíbh san díosbóireacht so.
Do chuir an tAire Airgid síos ar an drochmheas a bhí ag an Teachta, Seán T. O Ceallaigh, ar an nDail seo. Táim sásta go ndéanfadh an Teachta, Seán T. O Ceallaigh, an obair go maith agus go dtabharfadh sé cothrom na Féinne do gach duine anso. Céim siar isea an chéim seo i dtaobh na teangan.
Tá a lán le rá iniu ar an Ghaedhilge. Ní cúis áthais dom a rá gur bé an chúis ná labhartar níos mó Gaedhilge anso nach mbíonn tuarasgabháil ar óráid Gaedhilge agus má bhíonn tuarasgabháil níl fhios agam cadé an seort Gaedhilge a bhíonns inti, ach ní Gaedhilg Chonnacht í ar chuma ar bith. Mar adubhart cheana, tá an Gaedhilg mar atá an Fhrainncis i gCanada do réir fear an "Irish Times." Is bocht an rud é nach bhfuil annseo daoiní gur féidir leo Gaedhilg a scríobhadh síos agus nach bhfuil an meas céanna atá ar an Bhéarla fá láthair ar an Ghaedhilge.
Ní raibh dúil agam labhairt ar an gceist seo ach táim in aghaidh—agus go láidir in agaidh—an Teachta O Muirgheasa do thogha mar Leas-Cheann Comhairle. Tá súil agam nach bhfuil na daoine ar an dtaoibh eile—atá in án an Ghaedhilge do labhairt ach nach labhrann í toise nach gcuirtear síos óráid as Gaedhilge—tá súil agam nach bhfuil siad-san chun cabhrú le Teachta nach bhfuil focal Gaedhilge aige. Ceapaim gur masla mór don Ghaedhilge sin. Mar adubhairt an tAire—"The outlook of Deputy Morrissey is the outlook of the House and that is desirable." Tá—do réir an Rialtais. Is é atá uatha ná Teach Gallda do dhéanamh den Tigh seo, i dtreo nach mbeidh cead ag aon Teachta Gaedhilge do labhairt. Sin é "an right outlook"—an fhéachaint Ghallda.
Níl fhios agam cén fáth go mbeadh aon duine in aghaidh Seán T. O Ceallaígh do thogha mar Leas-Cheann Comhairle. Ní theastuíonn an t-ionad seo uainn ach teastuíonn uainn Gaedheal a bheith ag an Dáil mar Leas-Cheann Comhairle. Droch-shompla isea an rud seo don tír—droch-shompla ar fad ar thaoibh an Rialtais. Má bheirimíd droch-shompla don tír nuair atá árdoifig follamh, cadé adearfaidh na múinteóirí ag a bhfuil an Teachta, Tomás O Conaill, mar phriomh-rúnaí? Cadé a dearfaidh siad nuair a chluinfe siad go bhfuil duine gan focal Gaedhilge toghtha againn mar Leas-Cheann Comhairle agus gur chuirimear ar leath-taoibh duine ag a bhfuil togha na Gaedhilge agus atá in án an obair do stiúrú chó maith le aon duine? Ceapaim gur táchtach an rud é seo agus nach macántacht don Rialtas an Ghaedhilg do chur ar leataoibh.
Deirim go mba mhaith sompla do thabhairt don tír agus an Teachta Seán T. O Ceallaigh do thogha. Dá mbeadh Teachta ón taoibh eile de'n Tigh le togha agus dá mbeadh Gaedhilge aige ní bhéimíd ina choinne. Mar gheall ar an Ghaedhilge, agus ar an abhar sin amháin, táimíd in aghaidh na tairisginte seo agus táim ag féachaint chuig an Teachta Mac Phaidín, as Tír Chonaill, agus chuig an Teachta O Mongáin, as Connamara, agus daoine cosúil leo ar an dtaoibh eile an rud ceart do dhéanamh ar son na Gaedhilge agus gan droch-shompla do thabhairt don tír.
Deir an Teachta, Seosamh O Mongáin, gur ar son an £1,000 go bhfuil cainnt ann iniu. Is furus "red herring" do thabhairt isteach anois agus arís—is furus sin do mhuinntir na n-intinn suarach. Táim in aghaidh an Teachta seo gan Gaedhilge, gan eolas ar theangaidh na tire, do thogha mar Leas-Cheann Comhairle.
May I ask Deputy O Murchadha through you, a Chinn Comhairle this question: Whether he means, when he says that Deputy Morrissey accepts fully and unequivocally the constitutional position of this House, that any member of the Fianna Fáil Party would be an improper person to appoint to the position of Leas-Cheann Comhairle?
I think the Deputy can answer that when concluding the debate.
I do not know that it is a question that calls for any answer as I made no such suggestion.
I took down the Deputy's words. He said that Deputy Morrissey was particularly suitable to the position because he accepts fully and unequivocally the constitutional position in this House. The Deputy suggested thereby that no member of Fianna Fáil is a proper person to appoint to this position. If that is so, it is interesting to find that the Labour Party has definitely ranged itself against Fianna Fáil on questions of national principle.
The Deputy has no right whatever to read that suggestion into any statement made here. He has no right to say that the Labour Party are not as national in their outlook as the Fianna Fáil Party.
I have every right.
You have not.
Would Deputy Murphy explain what he means by his statement: "Unless a candidate accepts fully and unequivocally the constitutional position as laid down in this House"?
I would not like to enter into that matter any further. I meant exactly what I stated, and if I went to explain matters further I would have to make certain comparisons which I would prefer not to make at the moment.
I want to protest against the Minister for Finance lecturing Deputy O'Kelly and, incidentally, other members on these benches on the decorum that is proper to this House. I think if the Minister for Finance has any strong views on what proper decorum is he will find plenty of ground for exercising them, particularly among his colleagues on the front bench opposite. I believe if there was a prize of a bun offered for the most disorderly Deputy in this House——
Please do not tell us who he is. This debate, which will resolve itself in the end into one of the Deputies becoming Leas-Cheann Comhairle, is one which has been, and I think ought to be, conducted in a particular way. I do not think that the Minister for Finance made any charge against the decorum observed by the Fianna Fáil Party. If I heard a charge of that kind I would have adverted to it. I do not think that he made that charge. I did not gather that he made it and, if it were made, I would be compelled to state my own view of it.
The impression which I received from the Minister's speech was that the conduct of Deputy O'Kelly since he came into the House shows that he had not a sufficient knowledge of decorum. I was surprised to hear that statement from an occupant of the Front Bench opposite. I was wondering if the Minister considered the nomination of the Minister for Fisheries to the position of An Leas-Cheann Comhairle. I think he would have been a very suitable nomination from every point of view. He has, of course, a knowledge of Irish. The country would be very glad to see him out of his present position. His knowledge of decorum is, no doubt, exemplary. I recollect that on the last day of last Session, in reply to a question asked from this side of the House, he told a particular Deputy to "put a sock in it." Perhaps it would be very difficult for members of Fianna Fáil to rise to the level of decorum indicated by that particular expression. It would, perhaps, be too much to ask Deputy Sean T. O'Kelly to modify his conduct, if he was elected An Leas-Cheann Comhairle, to permit an expression of that kind to be used. He is, after all, accustomed to the dignity and decorum exercised in the First Dáil and might not be able to change his habits so quickly. Quite seriously, however, I think that the arguments used against the appointment of Deputy O'Kelly to this position are such that I, for one, did not expect would be used here. Both from the point of view of knowledge of Irish and of qualifications necessary, I think that Deputy O'Kelly is admirably suited. I believe that Deputy Morrissey also holds a large number of qualifications for the post but the disqualification of having no knowledge of Irish is, I think, one that should rule him out. If the House is anxious to maintain its decorum and to encourage the use of the Irish language in debate I think that the motion that Deputy S. T. O'Kelly should be appointed An Leas-Cheann Comhairle should receive the support of every Deputy.
There are just a few points I wish to make. I observe that there is a remarkable difference between the attitude of Deputy de Valera to-day and that of the 27th October last. On the 27th October last he joined somewhat in the heresy pronounced by another Deputy here in connection with the election of An Leas-Cheann Comhairle in saying that there should be no salary attached to the post. He has advanced slightly from that position, but we will find very few members of his Party going round the country and saying: "The great man made a mistake in regard to one small item which was brought before the Dáil on a matter of expenditure."
Would the President quote from Deputy de Valera's statement? My recollection is that he said that if An Leas-Cheann Comhairle is merely to be Vice-Chairman and has no duties outside this Chair then the position should be an honorary one.
Certainly it should be. The Deputy has since learned that it involves something much more than that. We told the Dáil that on every occasion. It took Deputies opposite six months to learn that.
Would the President state who fixed the duties of An Leas-Cheann Comhairle and when they were fixed? The statement of Deputy de Valera was that if An Leas-Cheann Comhairle is simply to occupy the Chair in the absence of the Ceann Comhairle there should be no salary attached to it, but there should be if it is a whole-time position. We asked for information as to what the duties are and when they had been fixed. Were they fixed on the date that Deputy de Valera first made his statement?
Deputy O'Connell told the House a number of the duties that devolved on the occupant of that position. There was a discussion on the 27th October last.
When we came in here in October we were anxious to find out what the duties of An Leas-Cheann Comhairle were. I was appointed one of the Whips of the Fianna Fáil Party and it was up to me to try and find out what those duties were. We went round to the Labour Party and we got people to interview a former Leas-Cheann Comhairle with regard to those duties and see whether they were such as would take up the whole time of the man appointed. We looked up the Official Reports to see the different speeches that were made when An Leas-Cheann Comhairle was appointed the previous session. We examined particularly Mr. Johnson's speech. He was leader of the Opposition, and he made a complete case against An Leas-Cheann Comhairle being looked upon as a whole-time man. Until quite recently, until Deputy Hogan took up the position, I believed that An Leas-Cheann Comhairle did not perform any functions, practically speaking, other than taking the Chair in the Ceann Comhairle's absence.
I think the President should keep to the motion as best he can.
Very good. The motion, at any rate, has resulted in Deputies opposite coming to the conclusion that this position is worth £240 per annum in addition to the £360 per annum allowance. That is agreed. We have advanced that far, but the people outside will not be told that all those economies which were promised, to the extent of the £240 at any rate, are not correct. There is another advance in respect of the Labour Party. The leader of the Labour Party in June last had the same view, that no salary ought to be attached to the position. To that extent I am glad that at least there is a modification in the view of the Labour Party also.
I would like to correct that statement.
I mean the leader of the Labour Party at that time.
Mr. O'CONNELL
I think if the President will read Mr. Johnson's speech he will not repeat the statement he has just made.
Or if he reads Deputy de Valera's speech.
A DEPUTY
You are all wrong.
I was reading what was stated by Mr. de Valera in his speech reported on page 491, in which he quoted a statement of the then leader of the Labour Party.
Mr. O'CONNELL
I would suggest that the President would read Mr. Johnson's own speech and not what Deputy de Valera quoted from it.
The fact was that the salary was criticised.
They wished to have a Committee set up to go into the whole question.
We have advanced from that. We are satisfied low; we are accepting it.
Who is accepting it?
The House, the Deputy and his Party.
The President has no right to speak for the Labour Party.
At any rate there is no objection to the salary now. Coming back to the leader of the Fianna Fáil Party, I understand that he said that he spent some hours persuading Deputy O'Kelly to accept this position, and he wasted 25 minutes in persuading this House to accept him. Whether the Deputy is a more impenetrable specimen than other members of the House I do not know, but I think the House is entitled to the same courtesy, the same close-reasoned arguments as were used towards Deputy O'Kelly. Apparently that is not so. The Deputy did not think so.
The President stated that Deputy de Valera wasted 25 minutes.
That is the courtesy we expect from members on the opposite benches.
If Deputy Flinn would only go away and study the rules of courtesy it would be worth while. The President should not make use of that expression.
I withdraw that statement, and I will say that he entertained us for 25 minutes, depriving us of an hour and 35 minutes of the advantage he bestowed on Deputy O'Kelly. We have had six speeches so far as I know on this subject from Deputies opposite. Three of the Deputies used the Irish language and three did not. The leader of the Party did not use it. I have not at all that knowledge of the language I would like to have, but if I were looking for a teacher of the Irish langauge there are not many of those I would have approached. I will leave it at that. I must say that in my experience—
The superiority complex.
By no means. I am much indebted to one of them for what he has done in that respect when the Deputy was probably communing with the stars. I would go so far as to say that it is highly inadvisable to criticise other people unless we are satisfied that we ourselves have achieved the same degree of perfec- tion. I am perfectly satisfied that those who had a knowledge of Irish and who did get reported, have not much to complain of in connection with this matter. My view is that you require for this position a person who will study the work in which he will be engaged. My view of ordinary business and other activities outside is that while one may say on a platform that a knowledge of the Irish language is essential one does not put that always into practice. I would like to know if those who are booming the new newspaper have been questioned closely as to their knowledge of Irish before they were let loose on the country. It is not easy for a member of one Party when he is recommending a candidate, and giving him certain qualifications, to look round in a generous spirit and say: "These attributes are possessed by others." It is for other Deputies to show they possess them. Deputy Morrissey, in my view, is a person well qualified to fill the office. He brings to it many years' experience in the work of this House. He will bring to it the industry which is required. I am not going to enter into an examination of how the duties were performed by other people, but I believe you have an opportunity of showing that the office can be filled with advantage even when the occupant is at the disadvantage of not knowing the Irish language.
From what I understood Deputy de Valera to say when proposing the motion, I feel constrained to vote against his proposal. As far as I could gather, his sole reason for opposing the election of Deputy Morrissey was that the Deputy had not a sufficient knowledge of Irish. For that reason alone I will be constrained to vote against Deputy de Valera's proposal because I have always maintained, much as I am in favour of the propagation of the Irish language, that Irish should never be made an essential subject for an appointment which is not concerned with the Irish language. I was very pleased to see both the President and the Vice-President in the attitude they have adopted to-day. I only hope that attitude will be followed subsequently throughout the country in the case of all other appointments at the disposal of the Government or of public bodies. The Vice-President said that he thought that perhaps a knowledge of Irish should be essential for the appointment of a dispensary doctor. I see no reason why Irish should be any more essential for a dispensary doctor than for An Leas-Cheann Comhairle. If there are two candidates for a position and both candidates have equal qualifications, but if one has a knowledge of Irish, by all means give a preference to that candidate. I hope that the policy from this on of giving a preference to one who has a knowledge of Irish but who has not necessarily the qualifications for a particular post enjoyed by other candidates, will not be continued.
As far as this particular appointment is concerned, I fail to see why it is essential to have a knowledge of Irish to be elected by Deputies in the Dáil to a position in the Dáil, unless and until the time comes, if ever it should come, when it becomes essential to have a knowledge of Irish for the people in the country to elect Deputies to the Dáil. After all, if the people are entitled to elect us to represent them in the Dáil without our having, the great majority of us, a knowledge of Irish, surely we are entitled to elect one of ourselves to superintend the proceedings of the Dáil without having a similar condition imposed upon us.
It is true that, everything else being equal, a knowledge of Irish would be an advantage. There is no doubt about that, but when all is said and done, a very small minority of the members of this House even know Irish, much less speak it. I do not think that it will be a very great disadvantage to the future occupant of the Chair or to the Dáil itself if he does not himself possess a particular knowledge of that language. But it is particularly for the reason that I first stated that I welcome this new departure on the part of the Government in making an appointment where they say that it is not essential to have a knowledge of Irish. And it is in particular in regard to the attitude adopted by Deputy de Valera and his Party, where they say that it is necessary to have such a knowledge, that I wish to vote for the motion proposed by Deputy Murphy.
I think the speech we have just listened to ought to give all of us in this House who wish to see the Irish language revived a great deal of food for thought. If the House endorses the principle which has been enunciated by the Minister for Finance, then they also accept the position which has been taken up by Deputy Redmond.
No.
That position is that Irish should no longer be made an essential qualification for public appointments in this country.
Hear, hear.
There may be people who feel that that is a correct attitude, and I suggest that it is not a correct attitude for an Assembly to take up which, in the first Article of its Constitution, states that "all powers are derived from the Irish people," and thereby—not quite successfully, I admit—endeavour to associate this House with the principles of Irish Nationality. It has been said by Deputy Redmond that he would not make Irish an essential qualification except for a Department or a position which is intimately associated with Irish. Why should he make English an essential qualification? Would Deputy Redmond or any other Deputy in this House, at least any other Deputy supporting the attitude of the Minister for Finance, vote for a Deputy to act as Leas-Cheann Comhairle who did not know English? And yet it seems to me that if you accept Deputy Redmond's proposition that you would not require Irish as a qualification except for a position that is intimately associated with the Irish language, you have also to accept the other proposition that you would not require English as a qualification except for a position that is intimately associated with the English language. The fact of the matter is this, that the position of Leas-Cheann Comhairle, as this debate has shown, requires the occupant of that office to have a sound working knowledge not only of English, but of Irish as well.
In the course of his speech, which I am sure few of us will regard as having been a shining example of Parliamentary decorum, the President, emulating Albertus Magnus, as he usually does when he gets up here to speak, seems to have taken the whole world of knowledge as his ken. As is the common defect of such diffusive learning—that what it gathers in comprehensiveness, it loses in exactness— he made up for that want of knowledge by, shall we say, an effrontery which would have done credit quite admirably to a man clad in armour. Admittedly he has no knowledge of Irish, but he criticised a number of speakers who speak it as their native and mother tongue. I want to pass from that and simply to say this, that his attitude in that regard is on all fours with his criticism of Deputy de Valera. It is true that we have had reason to change and modify our attitude from that which we took up in October, 1927. But other people have been constrained also to advance from the attitude they took up on that occasion. When we opposed the appointment of Deputy Patrick Hogan to the office of Leas-Cheann Comhairle we did it on this basis, that the position not having been defined, and that so far as we could ascertain it had been in respect, at any rate, of the previous holder almost a purely honorary position, that no appointment should be made at a salary until the duties of the position had been examined and defined. The President refused to accept that perfectly reasonable proposition, and a Deputy was elected as Leas-Cheann Comhairle in this House. He did not occupy that position for more than four months when this question of his duties and responsibilities became so acute that he was forced to resign and vacate the Chair, the position to which he had been elected only four months previously.
In consequence of that, the Committee on Procedure and Privileges was requested to do what we had asked should be done in October, 1927. In consequence of that, you have a report from the Committee of Procedure and Privileges. I hold that report in my hand. In that report the duties of the office of Leas-Cheann Comhairle are, for the first time in the history of the Dáil, defined and made clear to every person of intelligence and common sense. These duties are of such a nature that they require the whole-time attention of the person who holds the office. I think that the very fact that within four months from the election of the late Leas-Cheann Comhairle we are faced again with the election of his successor is a justification and a vindication of the attitude which the Fianna Fáil Party took up in October, 1927. Arising out of that, there is another matter on which I would require a certain amount of information.
Deputy Patrick Hogan resigned his position, I understand, because he could not reconcile the restrictions which his duties in the Leas-Cheann Comhairleship—to coin a hybrid word—imposed upon him with his obligations to his constituents. I take it that in putting forward Deputy Morrissey for this position, the Labour Party refused to endorse the attitude which was taken up by Deputy Hogan. Do we take it that they accept the principle, that the representatives of democracy in this House accept the principle that a Deputy owes or does not owe his first duty to his constituents, to the people who have elected him and have entrusted him with a mandate, and that when he comes to this House that he must at once forget about them and accept a position which will prevent him from fulfilling to the very fullest his duties and functions as a Deputy, in order to accept a position of emolument, a position, if you like, of honour, but a position which will circumscribe him as a Deputy in this House?
Does Deputy O'Kelly accept that?
I am not here to answer for Deputy O'Kelly.
You are not here to lecture the Labour Party.
I think we ought to have this clear at any rate. We ought to know now whether in putting forward Deputy Morrissey the Labour Party accepts the restrictions which this office imposed on the Deputy and refuses to endorse the stand which Deputy Hogan made for the rights of Deputies. I take it that, so far as we are concerned, the position is this—we have been driven to nominate a Deputy for this position, driven to nominate him because we wish to see the Irish language securing its proper rights in this House, because we wish to see that any Deputy who wishes to transact the business of this House will transact it under the Chairmanship of a member of this House who will be competent to guide the debate and keep it within the limits of order and decorum.
It is simply the extremity in which we are placed that has forced us, temporarily, if you like, to accept restrictions that have been imposed upon a Deputy in consequence of the Report of the Committee of Procedure and Privileges. I take it that the acceptance of these restrictions on our part will be temporary only until we can secure a majority of this House to adopt our attitude in this matter, which is that a Deputy owes a duty, first of all, to his constituents, and, instead of prescribing any limits for any Deputy holding office in this House, we would leave it to the good taste and good judgment of the Deputy himself to fix those limits.
I would like Deputy O Murchadha more clearly to explain to us what he means by the principle which he enunciated—that unless a candidate accepts fully and unequivocally the constitutional position as laid down by this House, he is not, in the opinion of Deputy O Murchadha, a fit and proper candidate for the Leas-Cheann Comhairleship. Is that the official opinion of the Labour Party? Does every member of the Labour Party who will vote in support of Deputy Morrissey endorse that principle? Does every member of the Government Party who will vote, I suppose, following the lead of the President and the Minister for Finance, accept that principle? Do we not know—unless their privately-expressed opinions belie their secret thoughts—that there are members sitting on those benches and opposed to us openly, who tell us sometimes when they meet us that they are heart and soul with us so far as the national position is concerned? Those members who believe that we have been compelled to accept this Treaty under duress, who look forward to the day when we shall have a completely independent and united people here in Ireland, who profess to be working for that under the Treaty and, if you like, under the leadership of President Cosgrave—will those Deputies now vote in support of the principle of the new requirement that has been enunciated, first of all, by Deputy Murphy, and then accepted by the Minister for Finance—that no Deputy in this House can be a worthy occupant of the office of Ceann Comhairle or Leas-Cheann Comhairle and, in fact, be fitted for any public employment in Ireland, unless he accepts without equivocation or without reserve the constitutional position as laid down in the Treaty?
Mr. MURPHY
I would like to say at the outset that I would very much prefer to avoid wandering into some of the by-ways in which this debate has travelled. The main opposition to the election of Deputy Morrissey has been, as I anticipated, that he has not a competent knowledge of Irish. I would like to recall that when an appointment to this position was made some time ago the Party that Deputy Morrissey and I are associated with nominated another Deputy. I would like to recall the fact that that candidate was opposed, and on that occasion, of course, there was a certain reason put forward, and we have had that reason talked around to-day. As has been pointed out, there is a very remarkable change observed. The salary of the Leas-Cheann Comhairle has been referred to to-day. I do not think the salary of the Leas-Cheann Comhairle should be taken by itself. If it is a case for revision it should be revised in conjunction with the salaries paid to Deputies and to Ministers and the general expenses that have to be voted in respect to this establishment.
Hear, hear!
Mr. MURPHY
We used to hear from a certain quarter some time ago a great deal said about the excessive salaries paid to Deputies. I do not remember having heard very much about that lately. There is a very significant silence on that question. Quite possibly the people who came recently into responsibilities that were faced by other people for some years past realise now that in the material sense there are more difficulties in that direction than they anticipated. A competent Irish speaker would be very desirable if he had the other qualification that was mentioned in connection with this appointment. Without any disrespect whatever, I would like to say to the Official Opposition that on their own front bench very few competent Irish speakers are to be found, as far as I know; at least, we have not heard them very often. It is, perhaps a regrettable fact, but it is nevertheless true, that in this House amongst all Parties we have less than thirty competent Irish speakers.
Where is the proof?
Mr. MURPHY
The proof? There are just a few other matters I should like to mention. Deputy MacEntee has been very severe on me for the statement I made that a candidate for this position should accept, without any reservation, the Constitution of this State. I make no apology for that statement. The Deputy wants to get me to discuss the question as to where democracy is going because of the attitude we have been taking up to-day. I would like to say, although perhaps it might not be exactly relevant to this question, that I hope we will have very definite proof of where democracy is heading when the report of the Committee investigating the future method of election to the Seanad will be placed before the Dáil. Deputy MacEntee talks of repudiating statements. There were certain statements made in the course of his career that, perhaps, he himself would like to repudiate. There are statements that he made on notable occasions that most of his Party would like to repudiate. When he talks about this Treaty being accepted under duress he forgets that on one occasion he talked of the Home Rule Bill as a measure that was affording a full and free measure of freedom such as was enjoyed by the King's free Dominions, and he said that was the measure of freedom he contemplated when he took part in an event that he subsequently learned was an unfortunate insurrection.
The constitutional position has been mentioned. I would prefer not to deal with the matter further, but I had in mind when I made that statement a statement made by Deputy Lemass some time ago that his Party was a slightly constitutional party—a sinister and significant statement. It was no less significant than the statement of the other candidate for the position, Deputy O'Kelly, made some time ago at a public gathering, when he talked of using this Dáil, as long as it was possible to use it, for a certain period, and of adopting other methods afterwards.
James Connolly!
Mr. MURPHY
That is my answer to the demand for an explanation of this position. I should like now to go back to the main question. It is, in my opinion, that the best man to fill this position is a man who, while not having a knowledge of Irish, has a thorough grip of the procedure of the House, a thorough knowledge of how the duties should be performed; the benefit of an apprenticeship of five or six years serving on important Committees of the House, and of unrelaxing attention to the procedure of the House in his position as Deputy. I suggest that if the selection of Deputy Morrissey is agreed to it will prove to be a happy selection in that as Leas-Cheann Comhairle he will discharge his duties with credit to himself and with added dignity to the House.
I should like to ask Deputy Murphy a question. He put himself up as a great constitutionalist here this afternoon. I should like to know how he gets round Article 4 of the Constitution, which states that the national language of the Irish Free State is the Irish language; and also how he gets round Standing Order 15, which says that all proceedings of the Dáil shall be conducted through the medium of the Irish or the English language.
Mr. MURPHY
I am afraid the question is too long.
He is slightly constitutional—he is constitutional when it suits him.
Just the same as yourselves with the Oath.
Exactly—when it suits; that is just the position with the whole of us.
Question put: "That Deputy Daniel Morrissey be appointed Leas-Cheann Comhairle."
The Dáil divided: Tá, 79; Níl, 49.
Tá
- William P. Aird.
- Ernest Henry Alton.
- Richard Anthony.
- James Walter Beckett.
- George Cecil Bennett.
- Ernest Blythe.
- Séamus A. Bourke.
- Henry Broderick.
- Seán Brodrick.
- Alfred Byrne.
- John Joseph Byrne.
- Edmund Carey.
- Archie J. Cassidy.
- James Coburn.
- John James Cole.
- Mrs. Margt. Collins-O'Driscoll.
- Hugh Colohan.
- Michael P. Connolly.
- Bryan Ricco Cooper.
- Richard Corish.
- William T. Cosgrave.
- Sir James Craig.
- Richard Holohan.
- Michael Jordan.
- Patrick Michael Kelly.
- Myles Keogh.
- Hugh Alexander Law.
- Patrick Leonard.
- Finian Lynch.
- Arthur Patrick Mathews.
- Patrick McGilligan.
- Joseph W. Mongan.
- James E. Murphy.
- Joseph Xavier Murphy.
- Timothy Joseph Murphy.
- Martin Michael Nally.
- John Thomas Nolan.
- Thomas J. O'Connell.
- Bartholomew O'Connor.
- Timothy Joseph O'Donovan.
- John Daly.
- Michael Davis.
- Peter de Loughrey.
- James N. Dolan.
- Edward Doyle.
- Peadar Seán Doyle.
- Edmund John Duggan.
- James Dwyer.
- Barry M. Egan.
- Osmond Thos. Grattan Esmonde.
- James Everett.
- Desmond Fitzgerald.
- James Fitzgerald-Kenney.
- D. J. Gorey.
- Alexander Haslett.
- John J. Haslett.
- Michael R. Heffernan.
- Michael Joseph Hennessy.
- Thomas Hennessy.
- John Hennigan.
- Mark Henry.
- Patrick Hogan (Galway).
- John F. O'Hanlon.
- Dermot Gun O'Mahony.
- John J. O'Reilly.
- Gearoid O'Sullivan.
- John Marcus O'Sullivan.
- William Archer Redmond.
- Patrick Reynolds.
- Vincent Rice.
- Martin Roddy.
- Patrick W. Shaw.
- Timothy Sheehy (West Cork).
- William Edward Thrift.
- Michael Tierney.
- Daniel Vaughan.
- Vincent Joseph White.
- George Wolfe.
- Jasper Travers Wolfe.
Níl
- Frank Aiken.
- Denis Allen.
- Neal Blaney.
- Gerald Boland.
- Daniel Bourke.
- Seán Brady.
- Robert Briscoe.
- Daniel Buckley.
- Frank Carney.
- Michael Clery.
- James Colbert.
- Eamon Cooney.
- Dan Corkery.
- Martin John Corry.
- Fred. Hugh Crowley.
- Tadhg Crowley.
- Thomas Derrig.
- Eamon de Valera.
- Frank Fahy.
- Hugo Flinn.
- Seán French.
- Patrick J. Gorry.
- John Goulding.
- Seán Hayes.
- Samuel Holt.
- Patrick Houlihan.
- Stephen Jordan.
- Michael Joseph Kennedy.
- James Joseph Killane.
- Mark Killelea.
- Michael Kilroy.
- Seán F. Lemass.
- Patrick John Little.
- Ben Maguire.
- Seán MacEntee.
- Séamus Moore.
- Thomas Mullins.
- Patrick Joseph O'Dowd.
- William O'Leary.
- Matthew O'Reilly.
- Thomas O'Reilly.
- Thomas P. Powell.
- Patrick J. Ruttledge.
- James Ryan.
- Timothy Sheehy (Tipperary).
- Patrick Smith.
- John Tubridy.
- Richard Walsh.
- Francis C. Ward.
Tellers:—Tá: Deputies Anthony and T. Murphy. Níl: Deputies G. Boland and Allen. Motion declared carried.
Before the Dáil proceeds to the next business, it is due to Deputy Thrift and Deputy Fahy that I should, in the name of the Dáil and in my own name, tender to them our thanks for the service which they have rendered to the House in the Chair since the vacancy was created in the office of Leas-Cheann Comhairle.
DEPUTIES
Hear, hear.