asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce if he will state when payment of the rates, now overdue, on the property of the Electricity Supply Board, transferred from the Dublin Corporation, will be made to the Dublin Corporation.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Rates on Electricity Supply Board Property.
Mr. Hogan
The position of a body such as the Electricity Supply Board under the Rating Laws has proved to be a matter of very considerable legal uncertainty. Legislation intended to clarify the position is being prepared for early introduction, but it is not expected that the Electricity Supply Board will anticipate the provisions of the Bill by any payments in the nature of rates.
Does that mean that these rates will be paid?
Mr. Hogan
It means that the Deputy will have to wait for the provisions in the Bill and then the question can be discussed on the Bill. There is clearly one thing certain, and that is that no payment will be made until the situation is cleared up by the Bill which will be introduced here.
The Minister is aware that these rates are legally due to the Corporation and the Commissioners and that they have not been paid and that now they are overdue. Surely with the amount of retrospective legislation we have had, if this House exempts this Board from all rates then the Board can recover the amount. But meantime when a rate is struck it is struck on the basis of expectancy that all the rates due will be paid. The Minister, by his answer, is putting the Dublin Corporation in the position of anticipating £30,000 which it is now not going to get. Surely that is not equitable in the smallest sense?
Mr. Hogan
I did not say they were not going to get them.
Are they going to get them now?
Mr. Hogan
That is the point in dispute. The Department are not advised that the Board are legally liable for those rates and it will be for the Department to consider what proposals they have to make to clarify the position. To establish the various liabilities a Bill will be introduced here.
I asked a question some time ago, and the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Industry and Commerce said definitely that under a section of the Act which I quoted here, which was the only section dealing with the rates, the Shannon Board were not exempt, and from that it was concluded that they would pay. Now I am told that they are not sure whether they are liable or not.
May I ask whether the Department has been legally advised as to whether the Shannon Board is or is not liable under the law as it now stands?
Mr. Hogan
For rates in general?
No, for this specific rate.
Mr. Hogan
Obviously from the answer I gave it is clear that "the position of a body such as the Electricity Supply Board under the rating laws has proved to be a matter of very considerable legal uncertainty." It is obvious from that that lawyers have been consulted and that a definite opinion cannot be obtained. It seems clear there is some doubt as to the law on the question. As to whether they are liable for these rates or not seems to be doubtful. They may be liable for a certain sum and not liable for another sum.
May I ask if it is the Minister's intention to introduce legislation making them liable or freeing them from liability?
May I ask the Minister if he is not of opinion that if the Electricity Supply Board paid these rates under protest if necessary that would not prejudice their case when raised later as a result of legislation?
Mr. Hogan
I am sure that point has been considered, but apparently the Department proposes to take different steps. They propose to clarify the position by a Bill here. I cannot say what the Bill will be. All I can say is that a Bill to clarify the position and to make the liability certain will be introduced.
From the answer of the Minister, and arising out of the withholding of the payment of these rates, it is evident that the purpose of the Bill will be to free the Board from any rate whatever.
That is not a question.
Possession is nine points of the law, at any rate.