Skip to main content
Normal View

Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 29 May 1930

Vol. 35 No. 2

Approval of Conventions and Protocols. - Abolition of Slavery.

I move:—

"Go gceaduíonn an Dáil an Convensiún Eadarnáisiúnta d'fhonn Deire do chur le Daoirse agus leis an Trádáil i nDaoir do sighníodh i nGeneva ar an 25adh lá de Mheán Fhomhair, 1926, agus dar leagadh cóip ar Bhord na Dála ar an 7adh lá de Bhealtaine, 1930, agus go molann don Ard-Chomhairle gach ní is gá do dhéanamh chun aontú leis an gConvensiún Eadarnáisiúnta san."

"That the Dáil approves of the International Convention with the object of securing the Abolition of Slavery and the Slave Trade, signed at Geneva on the 25th day of September, 1926, a copy of which was laid on the Table of the Dáil on the 7th day of May, 1930, and recommends the Executive Council to take the necessary steps to accede to the said International Convention."

This is one of the conventions in which we have no direct interest. In fact, the decision was taken to bring a convention of this sort before the House because at this year's Assembly one of the Swiss delegates happened, at one of the meetings, to point out the position of his country in relation to two items, and asked if it would be considered desirable that a country which was clearly obeying the convention should formally ratify all the things ing the general application of the Committee, when that question was raised, was to the effect that the accession of a country like Switzerland, although clearly it was accepting the obligations, and clearly not, therefore, directly concerned in passing anything of the sort, would be a big moral asset towards ensuring the general application of the convention and, with that in view, we bring this Convention forward here.

The Convention itself is a marked advance on anything done previously because it deals with the suppression of slavery as a domestic institution. There have been conventions and resolutions up to date which simply contained a vague pledge with regard to the suppression of slavery. This deals with the suppression of slavery as a domestic institution and, therefore, allows nations to affect in whatever way they may think desirable countries which have slavery, or analogous conditions, as a domestic institution. Up to date, the effect of the Conventions has been merely to deal with traffic in slavery —the sale of slaves from one country to another.

There is a peculiar point on Article V. which deals with forced labour, which may seem to be a little bit of retrogression. There is the recognition there that compulsory or forced labour may be exacted for public purposes. There is an extension of what may be considered the retrogression in a further paragraph which recites the territories in which compulsory or forced labour for other than public purposes still survives, but then the pledge follows by which the contracting parties endeavour progressively, and as soon as possible, to put an end to the practice. Even though it may be complained that this marks a point even more out of date than the practice of ordinary, civilised nations, still it is a good thing to have some definite obligation with reference to forced labour. Of course, it is recognised that the majority of countries are very far beyond the minimum limitations set out here. It is recognised that they are minimum limitations.

Could the Minister explain to us what are the public purposes in Clause 1? Who is to define "public purposes?" Could there be private forced labour for public purposes?

I do not know how you could have private slavery for public purposes. The whole thing is governed by "public purposes."

What are public purposes?

State purposes.

Article 5 (3) states: "In all cases the responsibility for any recourse to compulsory or forced labour shall rest with the competent central authorities of the territory concerned." Is that for other than public services absolutely?

That is bound up with paragraph 1: "It is agreed that: (1) Subject to the transitional provisions laid down in paragraph (2) below, compulsory or forced labour may only be exacted for public purposes," and paragraph 3, not being an exception to that, is governed by it. Therefore, "public purposes" still hold.

Would that Article prevent a public authority here from exacting a certain amount of labour from unemployed people in return for assistance?

No. That is a different thing from forced labour.

Surely that would be forced labour if it was labour that is exacted under threat of starvation?

The imposition of a work test as a condition precedent to the gaining of certain State funds could not be forced labour.

Is forced labour merely the employment of prisoners?

That is forced labour, but it is a wider application of the term.

There have been several articles recently in English newspapers, and one article at least in an Irish paper, describing the method of forced labour in operation in Bulgaria, which, I think, is one of the signatories to this agreement. There it appears that the population have to submit to giving a certain period each year for national services—for roads and forestry, I think, and for other public works that are included in the programme. Those articles that I have seen more or less idealised the scheme, and even in the organ of the Labour Party in Ireland no objection was taken to this system. Are we to take it that under this agreement the State only would be allowed to put such an order into effect?

No. Bulgaria may be one of the countries referred to in paragraph 2 as a country where forced labour for other than public purposes still survives. It is now subject to certain limitations.

I think that the policy of service that was introduced in Bulgaria for some years has been discontinued.

No, it has been in force during the past three months.

I think the Deputy will find that the original scheme was very different from that. In the White Paper that the Minister circulated there is no mention of any signature on behalf of the Free State. I presume that we have signed this document. I would like the Minister to tell us whether any of our colleagues in the British Commonwealth have ratified this Convention. I understand that in Burma and in other sections of that part of the Commonwealth which are subject to Great Britain there is a continuance of some sort of slavery. I notice in the papers to-day that in South Africa there seems to be a practice of obtaining Hottentots and other persons for forced labour. I would like to know if we are the first members of the Commonwealth to ratify this.

No, we are in fact the last. The Convention has been ratified or acceded to by thirty countries, including Great Britain, Canada, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand and India. We are the last to join. This Convention is founded on the Report of a Slavery Commission which was appointed by the League in 1924. The findings of that Commission were to the effect that slavery was still prevalent in South Morocco, South Tripoli, The Libyan Oases, The Hedjaz, Abyssinia, Arabia, Tibet, Liberia, and China. It will be noticed that neither Abyssinia nor Liberia ratified this Convention.

Question put and agreed to.
Top
Share