I beg to give notice that I intend to raise the subject matter of Question 18 on the Motion for the Adjournment.
Question on Adjournment.
What is the question that the Deputy desires to raise?
I desire to raise the subject matter of Question 18, a question which has not been answered at all.
This is a question of an appeal with regard to an old age pension claim which is now before the Department of Local Government. What does the Deputy propose to do on the Motion for the Adjournment? The appeal has not been decided and, under these circumstances, I would like to know what is it that the Deputy proposes to discuss.
I asked the Minister whether he would state whether the claim of Mrs. Mary Finlay, Tullyvogey, Tydavnet, Monaghan, for an increase in her old age pension was now before him on appeal by the pension officer, whether he would state the approximate date upon which the claim would be decided, and whether he would state in detail the headings under which the pension officer had assessed her income, and the amount attributed to her under each heading. If the Minister refuses to give that information, how can she adequately present her case?
I would like the House to understand that I am not prepared to come here and discuss details of a pension case which is at present before the Department of Local Government on appeal. If the Deputy wants to suggest that there was any aspect of the case before the Pensions Committee of which the applicant was not aware, he is simply misunderstanding the whole position. I cannot in reason come here and discuss in public details concerning an old age pension claim, particularly when the matter is on appeal before the Department.
Are we to debate the question now or on the motion for the adjournment?
What we want to discover is whether there is any matter to be debated.
Would not the Minister have obviated the discussion on this matter if he had not prevented Deputies making representations to pension officers at headquarters?
I have never prevented anyone, Deputies or otherwise, from making representations to the Department in respect of old age pension cases, and from doing it personally. What I have sought to prevent is personal contact between the person presenting the facts and the appeal officer.
Can the Minister explain how a case is to be adequately presented on behalf of the claimant if the claimant is not aware of the case which is made against him?
What I would be prepared to hear on the motion for the Adjournment would be something in the nature of that which the Deputy has just mentioned, seeing that these cases are presumably rather numerous. I want it to be made quite clear before this case is discussed whether we are to hear on the motion for the adjournment the details of a particular applicant's appeal which is now before the Department. As I see the matter now, and subject to what I may hear from the Deputy afterwards, that seems to be impossible. If the Deputy wants to raise on the Adjournment something in regard to the general machinery for presenting an appeal, that is a different question, but it does not seem to the Chair that it is feasible under our procedure to take the case of this particular person and discuss it on the Adjournment.
I submit that when the case is decided, perhaps against her, it will be too late to make representations and that an injustice may be done if we do not get the particulars required before the case is decided.
Has the Deputy made any representations of the facts to the Department in this case?
I want to know what the case against her is. I know the case for her all right.
The Deputy does not understand the matter. I would like to remark that on the general case I have answered previously on the Motion for the Adjournment. There is a formal motion to deal with the matter. I do not know whether the Deputy wants to deal with that formal Motion on the Adjournment. I do not think he can.
Half an hour would not be sufficient for that.
I am prepared to see the Deputy between this and the Adjournment, but from what I have heard now I am not prepared to hear the details of this particular type of case on the Motion for the Adjournment and I am not prepared to accept the notice in its present form.
That decision means that Deputies are not allowed to make personal representations on behalf of old age pension claimants. According to the decision given now, it means that Deputies are not allowed to raise individual cases in this House.
I would be glad to see Deputy Ward and, if necessary, Deputy Cassidy, on that question.
And I am prepared to see Deputy Cassidy if he wishes to discuss the matter with me.
I prefer to discuss it with the Appeals Officer.
I rather think the Deputy would prefer to discuss it in the House.