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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 21 Oct 1931

Vol. 40 No. 4

Financial Resolution. - Tariff on Harness Leather—Report.

I move that the Dáil agree with the Committee in the following Resolution:—

1. That a customs duty of an amount equal to 20 per cent. of the value of the article shall be charged, levied, and paid on all harness leather, whether dressed or undressed, of any of the following classes imported into Saorstát Eireann on or after the 17th day of July, 1931, and before the 17th day of July, 1936, that is to say:—Harness hides or parts thereof, harness sides or parts thereof, harness backs or parts thereof, harness bellies or parts thereof, harness shoulders or parts thereof.

2. That, notwithstanding anything contained in the foregoing paragraph of this Resolution, the duty mentioned in that paragraph shall not be charged or levied on patent leather, chrome tanned leather, dressed collar hides or parts thereof, or dressed bridle butts or parts thereof.

3. That a customs duty of an amount equal to 20 per cent. of the value of the article shall be charged, levied, and paid on the following articles imported into Saorstát Eireann on or after the 17th day of July, 1931, and before the 17th day of July, 1936, that is to say, all harness, whether completely or partially manufactured, and all parts of such harness other than parts which do not consist of or contain leather and at the time of importation are not attached to any harness, whether completely or partially manufactured, or to any part of such harness or consisting of leather.

4. That the provisions of Section 8 of the Finance Act, 1919, shall apply to the duties mentioned in this Resolution with the substitution of the expression "Saorstát Eireann" for the expression "Great Britain and Ireland" and as though articles chargeable with either of those duties were mentioned in the Second Schedule to that Act and were so mentioned as goods to which three-fourths of the full rate was thereby made applicable as a preferential rate.

5. That the value of any article for the purposes of this Resolution shall be taken to be the price which an importer would give for the article if the article were delivered, freight and insurance paid, in bond at the place of importation, and duty shall be paid on that value as fixed by the Revenue Commissioners.

6. It is hereby declared that it is expedient in the public interest that this Resolution shall have statutory effect under the Provisional Collection of Taxes Act, 1927 (No. 7 of 1927).

This is the Report of the Resolution imposing the duty on harness leather and on harness. Since the motion was moved in the Dáil the Report of the Tariff Commission has been in the hands of Deputies and the case for the Tariff has doubtless been read by them.

It is not intended to oppose this Resolution but to express considerable dissatisfaction at its very limited nature. As Deputies are no doubt aware, the leather tanners of the Free State made application to the Tariff Commission for the imposition of a 25 per cent. ad valorem duty on imported sole and insole harness leather and also on manufactured harness. The recommendation made by the Tariff Commission which is embodied in the resolution we are now discussing, was limited to the imposition of a 20 per cent. duty on harness leather and manufactured harness only. It is apparently the conclusion of the Tariff Commission, a conclusion which has been accepted by the Government, that it is not possible to manufacture in this country all the varieties of leather required by boot-manufacturing and boot repairing trades.

It is not denied that the leather produced in the Free State is suitable for boot manufacturing purposes, but it is contended that all the varieties now in use in the boot manufacturing trade generally are not produced here and are not capable of being produced here. That refers particularly to the inferior type of leather that is used for the cheap, heavy-nailed boot. It is, apparently, the view of the Tariff Commission and of the Government that if the Free State tanneries cannot produce all the varieties of leather that are available in the world's markets at prices equal to or less than the prices which rule in those markets, then the protection necessary for the preservation of the tanning industry here should not be given. The applicants, in the course of the examination of their case, agreed to exempt from the scope of the proposed duty sole and insole leather required by the opposing boot factories and to confine their efforts to securing the market for leather used in the hand boot manufacturing and boot repairing trade. Even that reduced application was rejected and those who have read the report will, I am sure, agree with me that, however strong the case against the whole application may be considered, the case against the amended application is very weak indeed.

The applicants admitted that certain factors give an advantage as regards the cost of production to British tanners, who are, of course, the chief competitors of the Free State tanneries, but they argued that that advantage would not be so pronounced if the tanneries here were working to capacity, that the increased output would enable the Free State tanners to purchase hides and other materials on more favourable terms and would result generally in a reduction in the cost of production. The granting of the full application would have meant a small increase in the price of sole leather to boot manufacturers, but the Free State tanners maintain that once they were working to full capacity, with the decreased overhead charges that working to capacity would involve, they would be practically in a position to meet importers of that leather as regards price. The tanners concerned in the application expressed their belief that the provision of good quality leather at a competitive price would enable the boot manufacturers to capture a large part of the market now supplied by imported boots of inferior quality. It is my personal opinion that the boot manufacturers were very short-sighted in opposing the application. It would have been very much to their interest if steps had been taken to ensure that internal supplies of leather would be always available. Any temporary disadvantage resulting from the imposition of the tariff on leather might be offset by a slight increase in the tariff upon boots which is, in any case, overdue. I think that the Tariff Commission and the Government were particularly short-sighted in rejecting the amended application made. If the boot manufacturers were permitted to import the leather they required free of duty and the rest of the market were reserved for Free State tanneries, particularly the market for leather required by hand boot manufacturers and repairers, it would enable the tanneries here to get the increased output and put themselves in the position to offer more effective competition to the importers. If that had been done, it might be possible for the tanneries to renew their application for a duty on sole and insole leather required by manufacturers at a later stage, when they would probably be able to demonstrate that a tariff could then be given without any of the disadvantages that are feared now.

The only arguments against that course advanced in the Commission's Report is that some varieties of leather used in the repairing trade are not produced here and, consequently, would not be available at all or would have to be imported, despite the tariff, if the amended application were granted. The obvious answer to that argument is "We can do without those varieties." If a tariff were imposed and these classes of leather were shut out altogether, we would have to do without them but nobody in this country would have to go badly shod on that account.

The argument on which the Tariff Commission relied in the case of this application is similar to the argument they advanced in respect of other applications which came before them. That is, that because of intense competition the home manufacturers are not working to capacity and are not able to produce as cheaply as their rivals; consequently, they should not receive the protection they ask. Apparently, protection will only be given where it is least required. Where in the past bad government or restrictive legislation or intensive competition has reduced the efficiency of an existing industry, the old conditions are to be allowed to continue until the industry disappears. It is my opinion that the persistence of that mentality in the Executive Council or the Tariff Commission will mean the death-knell of the industrial revival.

In that connection, I should like to make special reference to the reports which appeared in the Press of the public sittings of the Commission in connection with this application. We have stated here in the past that it is our view that members of that Commission are prejudiced against tariffs and against a tariff policy and that persons making application could not be sure of getting their case fairly considered. That view has been borne out in a remarkable way by some of the statements made and questions put by members of the Commission at the public sittings in connection with this application. I refer particularly to questions reported as having been put by one member, Mr. Twomey, who is reported as having said a number of things which would indicate that he is much more concerned about making free trade propaganda than in giving the case laid before him impartial consideration. He was informed by a boot manufacturer who was giving evidence on behalf of the opposition in this case that boots were now cheaper than in 1924 and that the boot tariff had not put up the price of boots.

Then he came back with this intelligent question, "Then what use is the tariff to Irish manufacturers?" Witness replied, "It is an assistance to us in our general manufacture. It is also an assistance to us in getting on with the lighter end of the trade, which is the part most people want now. If the tariff were taken off we would be swamped by the English manufacturers who would come in and cut us." Then Mr. Twomey expressed this view: "But it is perfectly clear that a tariff is no use to anybody unless it increased the price of the article made." The witness, who was apparently taken aback by this partisan assertion on the part of a member of the Commission, replied, very sensibly, that: "The object of the tariff is to keep out foreign competition." There was further discussion on the matter and Mr. Twomey ceased asking questions and began to make assertions. His first assertion was: "I want that made clear because there has been an attempt made to get away with the statement." When was the attempt made to get away with the statement, "that the tariff had not increased prices"? Is this Government official on the Tariff Commission taking upon himself to reply to arguments advanced in the Dáil? Does he consider that he is there paid by the taxpayers and appointed by the Government for the express purpose of refuting protectionist propaganda in the country or the arguments in favour of protection made here by Deputies elected by the people? Apparently he seems to have some such idea in mind. At any rate if witnesses attending before the Tariff Commission are to be badgered in that way and to have their opinions forced on them in that manner by members of the Commission then any group of manufacturers who are thinking of making application to the Commission are likely to be deterred from doing so and certainly they have no reason to believe that their application will be considered upon its merits. It is, of course, only symptomatic of this Government that they should appoint a number of doctrinaire free traders to consider applications for tariffs. That is the easiest way of avoiding the possibility of having to impose tariffs, while at the same time being able to pose as impartial people anxious to do the best thing.

The leather manufacturers are, I think, to be congratulated on having got a very small part of their application granted. Other industries of much greater importance than theirs have had their applications completely rejected. Certainly I am convinced that no industry can have the slightest prospect of succeeding, no matter how strong its case, so long as it has to make its case before persons of the mentality of Mr. Twomey who made those nonsensical assertions.

I happen to know something about leather, and to a great extent I agree with the findings of the Tariff Commission in respect of the tariff sought on leather, for this reason: At one time we made in Ireland some of the finest sole leather in the world and to-day O'Callaghan's of Limerick are the only tannery in the Free State making good sole leather. The conditions have changed considerably in the last few years, and as has been pointed out in the report, the classes of sole leather extensively used here are not made in this country. Those who have to buy leather for the purposes of the boot repairing trade have to use this particular class of leather. I agree with Deputy Lemass in this, that if we could succeed by any tariff, even a tariff amounting to a prohibition, in having this class of leather manufactured in the country, I for one would put up with the temporary inconvenience caused.

But there is another matter to which I wish to refer, and that is with reference to manufactured harness. I asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce if it would not be possible to prohibit the importation of second-hand Army harness into this country. There is a considerable amount of harness made in Warsaw and sold cheaply in this country. In addition, there is a considerable quantity of second-hand English army harness which is brought in and sold at prices that no harness maker in the country could compete with. Apart from the tanning industry that we have had in this country, we have also had the harness-making industry, and this industry is petering out to such an extent that only an odd man is now engaged in repairing harness outside Dublin, where there is a considerable number of men engaged in the manufacture of harness. These men throughout the country have been deprived of their living because they cannot compete against the importation of second-hand stuff, and I think it would be no hardship upon anybody if the importation of this second-hand harness was prohibited. We make harness leather in Ireland, and very good harness leather, and I am glad to see that the Tariff Commission agreed to put a slight tariff on imported harness. Outside O'Callaghan's of Limerick they make ood harness leather in Clonmel and Kilkenny. Leather making industry for harness making could be far more easily and cheaply revived than could the tanning industry. The modern process of tanning has become very complicated and highly scientific, and requires enormous capital. The English tanneries engaged in that branch of the industry say they have been losing money upon it for years. Having to face the competition of Germany and France and America, the English tanners have had to cut their prices to such an extent that they are losing money.

Now the difficulty of the position from our point of view is that, as far as I understand it, Messrs. O'Callaghan of Limerick are not in a position to cope with the demand for sole leather, outside sole leather required for the manufacture of new boots. There is a very extensive trade done in this country in the importation of sole leather for the purpose of repairs. I think we import more sole leather for repair work than for new work.

There is here and there in the country still a certain amount of old hand-made work being done, particularly in Kerry and West Cork and parts of Waterford. In the mountain areas no boot will stand so well as the hand-made boot, and no boot is so fitted for the work in these areas as the boot made by an Irish country bootmaker. The greatest part of the material used by these men is foreign. In some cases they use O'Callaghan's sole leather but the greater amount of the stuff used is from heavy English bends, and the upper leather is foreign. At one time we produced in this country a splendid upper leather and we could perhaps do that still. But the fashion has changed to a great extent and the few Irish tanneries which manufactured kips in the old days have gone out of business. The old-fashioned brogue made in the South of Ireland was made from this leather. I am afraid that I am giving the House a lecture on the manufacture of leather.

The Deputy is quite in order.

If we could succeed in inducing some of the old tanners in the small towns who used to produce a good class heavy leather in the old days to resume that production, and if we could then put on such a tariff as would compel our people to use that leather I think we would be doing a very good thing. In recent years we have fallen into the habit, following the rest of the world, of wearing cheaply made shoddy boots sent to us from England. It would be a good idea if our people were compelled to fall back on a better class of boot. That would be better for their health and it would be in the interests of the country. If we could induce the smaller man who did produce good leather in the old days to go back to that, and if we could prohibit any any other class of leather coming in we would be doing a good thing.

Ladies' boots are in a different category. For many years we have not produced any upper leather suitable for ladies' boots. That has become a very highly specialised industry—an industry with an enormous capital behind it. As far as men's upper and sole leather is concerned we can produce in this country in a comparatively short time the best leather and we need not send out of the country for a bit of leather for ordinary working boots, and if we can produce such a state of affairs in the country that every bit of leather going into good strong boots were produced in this country it would be a good thing, and any tariff that would bring about such a state of affairs would be well worth adopting.

I am protesting against the imposition of this tariff on harness leather from this point of view. I have not been able to come across any statistics with regard to the amount of harness leather used in different industries, but I think the House will agree with me that a very large percentage of harness leather is now used by the farming and agricultural industry. Motor traffic has more or less taken the place of horses, in nearly all our industries except the farming industry, and the amount of harness leather and harness employed on an agricultural farm is no small item in the expenditure per annum. Very often I buy a couple of sides of leather—it is usual where I live—and employ a harness maker for two or three weeks. The imposition of a 20 per cent. tariff on harness leather will not alone increase the price of the side leather by 20 per cent., but by more, because as you know the price of any article a tariff is put on is increased by more than the percentage of Customs duty. I do not see why the agricultural community should be the one people in the State called upon to bear all these dues. I think it is pretty well known and agreed that the cause of the financial crisis in England has been the high cost of production of her manufactures. England has since the war lost a great deal of her world trade through the high cost of production. Yet here in the Free State for anything manufactured for the farming community they are called upon to pay anything from 15 to 25 per cent. more.

I recognise that you cannot protect the farming industry because we produce a surplus of most of our agricultural produce and the price of that will depend upon the English market. Yet we in Ireland are called upon to pay 20 per cent. or 25 per cent. higher for anything we buy than the English manufacturers. The workers in the sheltered industries and our manufacturers should come to some agreement that they will produce manufactured articles for the use of the farming community as cheaply as they can be produced in any other country. I do not see why the agricultural community of this country should be called upon to spoon-feed these industries.

I would like to point out to Deputy Mathews that so far the price of Irish manufactured leather products has not increased. The price to-day is the same as it was before the tariff.

Has the price of a side of leather increased?

It is being sold still at the same price.

As the report shows the Saorstát tanners can produce harness leather of the qualities that are required and have been able to produce them in the past cheaply enough to compete with imported leather on which there was no tariff and they can produce in a sufficient quantity. Therefore I think there is not likely to be any increase or at any rate any material increase in the price of harness leather. So in that way I think the fears that Deputy Mathews entertains have not very much basis. I do not say there will be no increase, but I think there is not likely to be any appreciable increase. If the Tariff Commission looked at the whole matter as Deputy Lemass would have them look at it, the task would be entirely simple. They would decide in every application that came before them that there was nothing for consideration only the amount of the tariff. I daresay they would give a larger amount than any manufacturer would have the cheek to ask for.

It is quite clear, and I think it is clear even from Deputy Goulding's speech, that this matter is not a simple one, but is in fact a very complicated one, and is difficult because the article proposed to be tariffed is not an article which goes to the general public. It is the raw material of another industry which is very much more important from the point of view of capital employed and from the point of view of the number of people employed than the tanning industry is or could be, because, as is shown in the report, if we were to manufacture here all the sole and in-sole leather required the boot industry would be very much more important. Therefore, while, if you like, the tanning industry is more nearly a primary industry in its economic aspect it is quite a subsidiary industry as compared with boot-making, and there is no doubt at all that the boot manufacturing industry of this country has still a very long way to go before it has captured that proportion of the market which it ought to be able to capture before all that proportion of our requirements in boots is made here that ought to be made here.

It would be very undesirable from every point of view to handicap the bootmaking industry with its great potentialities for the purpose of getting some small immediate increase in the tanning industry. If there are two industries concerned, one of which supplies raw materials to the other, then the industry to promote and develop first is the industry nearest the general consumer. If we had the boot manufacturing industry here carried on on a much more extensive scale than it is at present, supposing it were seven or eight times the size it is at present, supposing it had captured everything except certain specialities, shall we say; that it was in a strong condition, that it was well capitalised and had all the skilled workers that it required, that the factories had the reserves that prosperous factories would have—then we could face up to the position of perhaps requiring that industry to make some small sacrifices required, to face certain minor inconveniences for the purpose of enabling the industry, from which it got its raw material, to be built up.

I do not think we have reached that stage. I think at present if there is a choice to be made between the boot manufacturing and tanning then we must prefer the boot manufacture at once.

There is of course the device of increasing very substantially the boot tariff. I think if the tariff on boots is to be increased there ought to be a direct examination of the boot tariff and of the consequences of raising it. I do not think it should be dealt with as a subsidiary inquiry to an application for a tariff on an industry that I described as itself subsidiary, or as a relatively minor industry. There may or may not be a case for increasing the tariff on boots, but if the boot tariff is to be increased the effect that the increased price of boots would have on the cost of living, on agriculture and all that, would certainly deserve to be considered specially and separately. The manufacturers of boots have not so far been in agreement amongst themselves as to whether or not an application should be made. I would hope that this particular tariff, in addition to giving the tanners the Saorstát market for harness leather, will encourage them—I believe there is only one tannery concerned in this—to hold whatever ground they have in regard to sole and in-sole leather and to extend it. If the factory is able to do a more profitable business because of a more certain business than before in sole and insole leather it ought to be used in dealing with the other branch of the business, but if there is something specially going to be done for sole and insole leather it can only suitably be done after the lapse of some years when the boot industry has very much strengthened its position.

Question —"That the Dáil agree with the Committee Resolution"—put and agreed to.
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