asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce to state (a) the total amount expended to date in connection with, or arising out of, the Drumm Battery under all heads; (b) the amount of liabilities to date under all heads other than by way of indemnities; (c) the amount of indemnity or indemnities to date; (d) under which item is included cost of (1) Government's share in Celia, Ltd.; (2) patent applications and legal fees; and (e) the total of amounts sanctioned or voted by the Dáil for all purposes of the Drumm Battery, including indemnities.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Financing of Drumm Battery.
For the information required under headings (a), (b), (c) and (e) of the question I would refer the Deputy to replies which I gave him on the 18th and 25th of November and on the 2nd December, to which I have nothing to add.
The cost of the items mentioned at (1) and (2) under heading (d) is included under the direct expenditure and does not arise by way of a contingent or indemnity liability.
Am I to take it that the Minister is refusing to answer the question now? I have taken the trouble to prepare the question to use his own words precisely. Am I to take it that the Minister refuses to give the precise information asked for?
No. I have already given it.
Would the Minister say what is the answer to portion (e) of the question?
That is given in the answer; I already gave it to the Deputy on 2nd December.
I have to take the opportunity of raising this matter on the Adjournment, as I am not satisfied that the Minister is giving the House a definite statement as to the position of the Drumm Battery expenditure. Therefore, I will raise it on the Adjournment, so that I can get some figures in relation to the expenditure.
The Deputy cannot get anything more than he has already got.
I want to say that I have received nothing from the Minister in the shape of a definite answer to my question.
The Deputy should read the answer.
I wish to ask the Ceann Comhairle if I am entitled to get a definite answer to my question. If a question is accepted and placed on the Order Paper is not the person to whom it is put compelled to give an answer to it?
That question has been raised before. The Ceann Comhairle has no means of compelling an answer to be given to a question.
Very well, then, I will move it on the Adjournment.
asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce to state (a) at what rate and on what basis it has been decided to pay for current supplied for use in connection with the Drumm Battery trains; (b) the estimated load factor for the run of two experimental Drumm Battery trains between Dublin and Bray for any particular period of time best suited for calculation purposes; (c) a comparative figure of fuel costs only as between steam and Drumm Battery motive power for a journey—Amiens Street to Bray and back.
With regard to (b) and the second part of (c), the battery trains would obviously have to be in operation for some time before the data necessary for making the calculations would be available.
With regard to (a) and the first part of (c), I would refer the Deputy to the Great Southern Railways Company.
The answer this time is somewhat different to the answer given to a similar question on the previous occasion when the Minister stated that the information could not be given because it would necessitate a considerable amount of research work and that research work would take a good deal of time and expense. Am I to take it then that the answer previously given is not correct?
Or that they do not refer to the same thing.
That the Minister is not able to give the information, because he does not know it himself.
I have given an answer to the Deputy.
Is it going to be the Minister's intention in connection with the development of this battery to keep from the Dáil public information which should be given to them in order to enable them to judge for themselves the true position with regard to a particular invention?
The Deputy has asked me about load factors and such things. Nobody who has any appreciation of the thing would ask for information about load factors. With regard to the other part of the question if the Deputy would apply to the Great Southern Railways, he may get the information, but I hope they will not give it to him. However, it is not my business.
Is the Minister prepared to say that the experimental run has been run or going to be run and that up to the present he does not know on what basis he is charging for the current?
I am not charging for the current and I am not buying current. The only people buying the current are the Great Southern Railways.
The Minister does not know on what basis this current is being bought. The Minister owns on behalf of this State certain shares in Celia Ltd., but he does not know what the contingent liability to him or to the company is going to be for the current consumed?
There will be no liability to the railway company for current consumed. That is quite clear.
So that the railway company are giving a present of the current consumed to the State?
I did not say that.
May I ask if the Minister is really serious in asking this House to believe that nobody is to pay for the current which is to be consumed in these experimental runs?
I did not say that.
Will not the State eventually be called on to pay for this current that is being consumed?
I do not believe it will.
But in the event of a certain thing arising will not they be liable for the payment of this current?
On a point of elucidation I want to say that this company, Celia Ltd., was set up in connection with this battery development proposal in order to avoid day-to-day interference with the work of the battery development. I do not intend to break the scheme that was established in connection with it. A business undertaking could not be conducted for the sake of answering the inquisitiveness of a Deputy here from day to day by way of question and answer. The details could not be considered in that way. An opportunity will be given for the consideration of the questions on some occasion when we are assembled here to deal with it. That is the way to do it and not by way of question and answer here.
The Minister evidently is not prepared to give information which will divulge in any way any of the secrets of the Drumm Battery or interfere in any way with the smooth running of the experiment. The Minister will have to admit that he is refusing to answer the question because he does not know the answer to it.
There is some information that I would not give to the Deputy.