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Dáil Éireann debate -
Friday, 3 Jun 1932

Vol. 42 No. 4

Adjournment Debate. - Closing of Tobacco Factory.

I gave notice that I would raise on the Adjournment the question of the position in which a very large tobacco factory in Dublin finds itself because of the new duties, as a result of which the factory has to close down and 300 persons employed in the factory will be put out of employment. We are dealing here with a very important industry, the Customs duty on unmanufactured tobacco providing about three and a half million pounds yearly. The Minister for Finance decided, in view of the financial situation, that he would have to get another £350,000 from tobacco entering the country.

I think it should be pointed out that when dealing with the Budget last year, Deputy Blythe, who was then Minister for Finance, mentioned that he wanted another £300,000, but, for reasons that he fully explained at the time, he decided that it was impossible to get £300,000 from tobacco without injuring the income to the revenue and some of the firms manufacturing here. Therefore he turned away from the tobacco tax. The present Minister for Finance pointed out that the duty on unmanufactured tobacco is 1/4 greater in Britain than it has been here up to the present, and that, for that reason, there is what he considers a margin up to 1/2 that he can afford to impose on unmanufactured tobacco coming in. It is not a fact that there is a difference of 1/4 between the amount of duty leviable on unmanufactured tobacco in Great Britain and here. The position here is that there is a duty of 8/2½ on unmanufactured tobacco of a particular kind, while in Britain the full rate has been 9/6, showing a difference of 1/3½ or, as the Minister said, 1/4.

There is no preferential rate here, but in Britain there is a preferential rate of 7/5½. Increasing quantities of unmanufactured tobacco are being brought into Britain under the preferential rate to the extent, even some time ago, of 25 per cent., and it is still increasing in quantity. There is increased importation of Canadian tobacco. If the average was taken it would not be more than 9/- per lb. on unmanufactured tobacco in Great Britain as against 9/4½ all round here. There is no use in the Minister for Finance keeping an eye on the position here and in Britain and taking that as an index of what he can do in the way of taxation here. He has to look at Irish circumstances, and apparently that is what he has not done. The Minister pointed out that if he imposed the full 1/2 on all factories it would not be possible for certain manufacturers to survive. He suggests that by putting half on certain native manufacturers they will be able to continue in business by putting a small increase on the price of tobacco, and that the others by carrying out the policy firms in Britain have adopted can suffer their losses, and can be as gentle in dealing with purchasers of tobacco here as elsewhere, although they are not in the same position as regards the amount of duty they will have to pay on unmanufactured tobacco brought in.

There is this discrimination between tobacco companies in this country, and we are told that the difference is as between native manufacturers and those who are not native manufacturers, but who have come into the Free State since the 1st April, 1922. Amongst the firms that have come to the Free State since 1922 have been the representatives of a large tobacco combine, Messrs. Gallaher. Messrs. Gallaher are being put into the position I have pointed out, as a result of certain of their competitors here getting a preferential rate of 7s. 5d. in the lb., and of competing in the early days of their establishment with a very big combine. The Minister anticipated that the price of tobacco would be slightly increased here. As a matter of policy, dictated no doubt by some of the bigger interests in the tobacco trade, the price has not risen. Incidentlly, if there was an increase in the manufacture of tobacco here, taking the census of production figures from 1926 to 1929, there was an increase of £500,000 in the manufacture of cigarettes. Otherwise there would have been a drop of a quarter of a million, so that cigarettes are an important factor in our tobacco industry. The position is that Messrs. Gallaher are going to be forced to close down because they are being discriminated against as not being an Irish firm.

We are told in the columns of the "Irish Press" to-day, with a great flourish of trumpets, that a record has been established in the swiftness with which an English firm made application to a property agent to buy up the factory which is going to become derelict on the East Wall. A factory is going to be closed because it is not a native factory, although it is a fully established one, contributing a considerable amount of money to the revenue, giving a considerable amount of employment, and is a definitely rooted industry here. That factory is going to be shut down, and there is a flourish of trumpets because an English factory, admittedly, is supposed to be looking after the site in order to come here to start the assembling of motor chassis. Apart altogether from the heavy incidence of the tax on tobacco generally, the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Industry and Commerce should, in fairness, look into the circumstances of this firm which is about to be closed down.

They have told us, without being very explicit, that their policy with regard to industrial firms in Ireland is to have them directed by Irish people, controlled by Irish people, and Irish capital is to be the capital that is to run them. We are told that in this Session we are to have a Bill that will outline their policy in that connection. We are told that this firm of Messrs. Gallaher is outside the pale of that kind of consideration. We are told that implicitly by the action taken here. Messrs. Gallaher are an Irish firm. They have shown vigour and independence in the development of their industry and in preventing their industry falling into the control of the bigger combines. In and outside Ireland tobacco-lovers are indebted to Messrs. Gallaher for getting tobacco cheaper than they otherwise would get it. They have successfully fought very strong combines. The Minister for Finance knows very well that in Belfast they successfully fought more than that and that in times of difficulty in Belfast, when an endeavour was made to prejudice the firm because it recognised no difference of religion in the employment it gave and stood stoutly by Catholic workers, they won through.

The Minister knows the firm is Irish to that extent. He knows, too, or he can find out that when, under the changed circumstances here, the Boundary wall came about, Messrs. Gallaher were not in a position to come in immediately; that is, in 1922 and 1923. They came in since then and, when they did, they were welcomed by tobacco traders from one end of the country to the other. They have established themselves and, during the last two or three years, they spent upwards of £250,000 in the way of building. They built up a preliminary factory in Rathmines and then they constructed an up-to-date modern factory at the East Wall that Dublin City might well be proud of. Their buildings alone cost upwards of a quarter of a million. They gave employment at a time when it was very badly needed. At the present moment they are paying about £700 a year in rates alone to the Dublin Corporation.

They have completed two years' trading here. Naturally, a firm coming in at the great expense I have indicated will not make millions in its first two years. Messrs. Gallaher are at the point when, having firmly established themselves here, they are on the eve of making profits. After the work they gave when they were setting up their factory here—that is, building work alone—and after the employment they gave in their factory—and Ministers are urging that employment is now very necessary—it is too bad to see them being dealt with in this particular way. Three hundred persons are being put out of employment and Free State shareholders in the firm of Messrs. Gallaher are also, as it were, being put out of their employment—they are being deprived of their income. This is happening, too, when additional firms are being invited to come here and start industry of one kind or another.

When the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Industry and Commerce contemplate their policy of inviting outside firms with capital and experience to come here in order to develop some Irish industries, they would be well advised to consider seriously what effect upon their long-view policy the shutting down of a factory like this is going to have. I submit that this is a disastrous line of policy on the part of the new Government. It is disastrous after the ten years' life of a new State to discriminate so drastically against persons who, during the State's short life, have come in and have established quite a number of factories here.

These factories are a great addition by reason of the employment they give. Messrs. Gallaher are an outstanding example of sound business organisation, sound methods of trading. Their employees are well treated both as regards remuneration and the circumstances in which they are asked to work. The factories alone are a great addition to the appearance of our City. The Minister for Finance is faced with this, that the tax which he has put on is too heavy. He will have to review it and take some of it off soon. He is faced with that position at a time when he has not yet made up his mind how he is going to differentiate between Irish firms starting industries here and firms that are not Irish. Before he has made up his mind on that, before he has disclosed his mind either to this House or to the industrialists in this country, before he decides to invite firms from outside to co-operate with him in establishing industries here, he takes an action which must be highly prejudicial to the success of the policy or the line of action upon which he is embarking, whatever that line of action may be.

What I would like to see is this tax reduced all round. I do not think that the Minister will agree with that. There is a good deal to be said for a firm with its roots so much in Ireland and with the vigorous and independent spirit that this Irish firm has shown in the work it has done here in Dublin since it was started. This firm has had only two years of life here and they are getting to their profit-making period just now. They do deserve special consideration of some kind or special examination of some kind. If the Minister is going to insist on driving them out of production by shutting down their factory, he should give a fuller examination to the circumstances so as to see if he will be able to give the House a better reason for his action than that the firm is not a native firm. I will make an appeal to the members of the Labour Party who have given the fullest assistance to the present Ministry in support of their Budget policy—which, in many instances, undoubtedly has hit the working classes——

Question!

That attitude was due, perhaps, to some long-distance view on the part of the Labour Party that the workers ought, of necessity, to suffer a little now in order that the long-distance-viewed prosperity may come. I will ask them what bearing on their long-distance plan, or on their long-distance view of prosperity, has the policy that is enshrined in this proposal, which shuts down an Irish firm employing 300 workers in the City of Dublin, even if it is to let in an English firm for the purpose of manufacturing motor bodies. I suggest this is a matter that the Labour Party ought not to support. If they are going to support it they ought to take us into their confidence and show us how the shutting down of this factory in these circumstances is going to help labour, taking their particular and somewhat obscure long-distance view of it.

I think this is a very serious matter and I am greatly afraid that the reactions of the whole position are not seriously appreciated by the Government. With most of the arguments of Deputy Mulcahy I am in complete agreement. On the Budget I expressed the view that this experiment in existing circumstances was a doubtfully wise proposition. What is the purpose of it? If I understand the expressed policy it is to give a preference to Irish-owned firms—to Irish capitalists, in other words.

Let me say I am not at all impressed with the righteousness of that procedure or with the political or economic principle, because so long as industry in this country, or any other country, is based upon the exploitation of the worker, and is based on waste and inefficiency, then I do not see any particular virtue in any particular kind of employer. In this tobacco industry we have this concrete example: that the cross channel tobacco firms are paying to-day a rate of wages which in some cases is higher by 60 per cent. than the Trade Board rate of wages paid by those Irish native employers whom it is sought to protect. Quite frankly I am not standing for a policy of giving subsidies to employers who pay scandalously low rates of wages.

The case made by the Government for this is that it is preference to Irish employers and Irish-owned industry. I am quite sure that the Minister realises that this kind of fiscal preference to Irish owned industry is a preference that can easily be defeated. If he has any doubt about it I invite him to investigate the position at Limerick, where, I understand that an English owned company is having its product manufactured. I probably will be told that its manufacture is distinct altogether from the local Limerick manufacture of tobacco, cigarettes or snuff. But I want to know whether it is not possible for this English owned firm to get a preference in connection with their tobacco, because it is linked up in some foggy kind of way with an Irish firm. It is quite possibly for any firm to defeat a financial preference given in this way by the Ministry, and if it is possible to do that the whole theory of subsidising native Irish manufacture falls to the ground. If the Minister wants to pursue that policy of preference to Irish owned industry, all I would say is, as I said before, that I do not see any particular virtue in it. I regard the employer who carries on industry on a basis of exploitation of the workers, and just only on the basis of the standard of living, that he concedes to his workers in his financial ramifications, has really no nationality. In many cases, although he happens to be born in a particular country, his nationality is Mammon, his outlook that of dividends, and the business he carries on exploitation. I hope the Ministry will take back this whole proposal and give further consideration to the matter, and that if they want to carry on the policy of giving preference to Irish manufacturers, let it be in some other way than that of fiscal preference, which could be so easily defeated. Let them reconsider the whole matter again with much more care than I am afraid it has got.

We have been asked the reason for this differential tax and we were told that the reason was that we wished to give preference to Irish manufacturers. That is not the reason. It is true that it is the policy of the Government to exercise a general preference for industries here, owned and operated within the country, as against those owned and operated by persons outside the country. In this particular case there were other considerations which had to be taken into account. When the Government decided it was necessary to increase the tobacco duty this year in order to secure additional revenue we had to take into account the existence of Irish owned firms. A number of these had gone out of existence since the cross-Channel firms began to operate here. I do not recall that there was anything like the same Press campaign in respect to the employees of these firms who lost their work.

Was it entirely because of pressure?

We had to face up to these facts that when the increase took place in England it was the policy of the tobacco combine not to increase its price. They adopted that policy in order to put out of existence in England their smaller competitors. We expected it would adopt the same policy here. If the combine adopted that policy here the Irish manufacturers would be put out of business and 600 instead of 300 would be unemployed. The majority of Irish manufacturers were in serious circumstances because of the level of prices being fixed by the combine. The majority of the manufacturers are manufacturers of pipe tobacco. We recognised that and we increased the duty by 1/2 in the lb. In adopting this policy we are told that these Irish manufacturers will be put out of business and that some 300 workers in Dublin will be unemployed. We are particularly concerned with the workers.

We are anxious to try to keep the possible adverse reactions of the increase of duty down to the smallest possible dimensions. I think we have succeeded in doing so. We succeeded in giving Irish manufacturers a preference, but it is a very small preference, and in view of the fact that Irish manufacturers have been Pariahs in their own land for the last ten years, it is time that preference was given to them. It is not true if Messrs. Gallaher are forced to close down to say that the Government are insisting in driving them out of existence. This firm are paying in Great Britain a rate of duty on Virginian tobacco—the tobacco used in the manufacturer of cigarettes—which is higher than that they are asked to pay here. I am satisfied for one that if the firm desire they could find means of continuing their existence here, and I am not at all satisfied that it is the difference which has been effected in the rate of duty which has caused them to close down. I should like Deputy Mulcahy to ask them if the same result would not have been achieved if this differential rate had not been decided upon, if the full amount of duty had been payable by them while the tobacco combine operated its present policy.

That is, they would have to shut down even without this differential rate?

I ask Deputy Mulcahy to ascertain if that is not the case?

You think it is.

I think it is. I think that the case they are making is very largely a case based upon the increase in the duty, an increase which they are not prepared to pass on to the customer and not a case based upon the differential rate of duty.

They are killed by the Budget in any event.

I regret very much that this firm is going to close down but we have got to face up to this that we have got to take this country out of pawn and we mean to do it.

You are putting 300 workers into pawn.

As far as the workers are concerned, I should like to assert that I have more genuine sympathy for them than Deputy Morrissey. The Government has undertaken to exercise its power in every possible way to alleviate any hardships they may have to suffer and will endeavour to secure for them a preference in the increased employment made available in Dublin and elsewhere in consequence of the Government's industrial policy.

What about the other 80,000 unemployed?

Deputy Morrissey talks about 80,000 unemployed. We are trying to find work for these people while Deputy Morrissey is backing up an obstructionist policy in this House which is holding up the Government and delaying the measures designed to create employment.

That is not true.

We have decided upon this course. We stand by this course. We are anxious to ensure that whatever temporary upset may be involved by the change of policy that is taking place here will be reduced to the smallest extent. There must be casualties. We are in a fight. If an army walked into battle and decided to turn back when the first man fell it would not achieve anything. We are trying to make this country Irish-owned and to secure for the people in this country the right to live in their own land. There are going to be casualties, temporary dislocation of trade and perhaps some unemployment, but if we stand up to them and do not allow ourselves to be stampeded in the first few months, I, for one, am satisfied that we will achieve our end eventually and that the net result will be a considerable increase in the volume of employment for our people.

Make that speech to the employees.

The Dáil adjourned at 2.30 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Tuesday, 7th June.

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