I move "That the Dáil do now adjourn until 3 p.m. on January 31st, 1934."
In Committee on Finance. - Adjournment Debate.
I am not quite certain whether any arrangement has been made between the two Parties with regard to the duration of this debate or whether it has been decided that the adjournment debate will not be taken to-night. I am aware of the fact that there were and are certain discussions proceeding. I wonder if anybody on the Government Benches could put me wise to the present position.
I am not in a position to say whether anything has developed since 9.30. I did understand the motion for the adjournment was to be made at 9.30 and that the House would adjourn definitely at 11 o'clock. I am not sure whether the fact that the Workmen's Compensation Bill rather overshot the schedule makes any difference.
Before the Dáil rises for two rather long and important midwinter months I think the occasion arises when at least an attempt should be made to get from the Government Benches some clarification of the situation that exists in this country, some clear indication as to what the Government stand for, whether the Government's attitude as enunciated and proclaimed by various members of their Party at different times represents really the mind of the Government. Although this country is at the moment suffering acutely from financial depression as a result of the controversy between it and Great Britain, I think that we have to go somewhat deeper to find out the actual cause of the evil conditions that exist. Speaking in no Party sense, I suggest that the fundamental cause of practically every evil of recent growth that exists in the country is to be found in the prevailing factors of instability and insecurity that are rolling over the country like an evil fog, passing over every class, every trade and every group in the community.
I do not care very much to what particular class of the community you apply that standard, you will find the same old curse of instability and insecurity. Take the ordinary worker. There is not a worker in this country who can look forward with any confidence three months hence. There is not a single worker, particularly a rural worker, who can say with any confidence to his unfortunate wife that the job he holds now he will hold next March and that the wages he now has, bad and all as they are, he will have next March. There you have the old curse of insecurity and instability. That worker drives his boss's few head of cattle to the fair and in seven cases out of ten he drives them home again. If he leaves them at the fair he receives a rotten price. That man knows in his heart that if the boss's profits are being drastically reduced there is going to be less to go around; there is going to be less labour employed; there is going to be either a reduction in man power or wages.
If you take the public servant, I do not care what particular office he holds, whether it is a high post or an humble post, whether he is highly paid or lowly paid, you have the same old curse of instability and insecurity. You have economy Bills, cuts Bills, wage-slashing Bills. Not a single officer, high or low, in the service of this State can look forward with any degree of hope or confidence. He cannot feel that even if he does his job efficiently and in a thorough-going, honest manner he will hold that job in three months or that his rate of pay will be the same in three months' time. Take the professional classes. Just the same thing applies to them. Taxes are going up; incomes are coming down; expenditure goes on, leaving them mulcted to the left and mulcted to the right. The Government and the Government's agents are boring in and tapping the barrel down below. Apply it to the trader with the hinterland all round ruined or practically ruined; with less money flowing in from the rural areas there is less money flowing through the tills. There again you have the same old curse of insecurity and instability; you have the same old uncertainty. No man, no head of a family, be he rich or poor, can face his family this Christmas with any hope in his breast or any happiness in his heart.
That fog of instability, uneasiness, unrest and uncertainty does not just start at the bottom or the middle; it permeates right down from the head of this State; it permeates right through that Party opposite, from the President of the Irish Free State right through the country. We have every evidence of vacillation and weakness, every evidence of instability on top, and that grogginess and shiftiness on top is what is permeating every walk of life in this country. We have a Government elected over there to the cries of "Up the Republic." We have a team of men elected over there, elected mainly through one phase of their political career to the cry that everyone who entered this Dáil was a traitor, a national apostate; we have them sitting there drawing their salaries as Free State Ministers, merely securing that the difference between themselves and their predecessors is that they will be exempt from income tax when that tax has gone up.
Last night, when we had a motion before the House that would provide an opportunity for discussing the condition of what is, according to all, the main industry of the country, agriculture, we had one Fianna Fáil Deputy speaking pathetically about the length of time the particular motion had been on the Order Paper and he asked us for goodness sake to get finished with it. That speaker was followed directly by the Parliamentary Secretary to the Department of Finance, who absorbed the remaining portion of the time, something like an hour and 20 minutes, in a long, boring exhibition of buffoonery, in language that gave exhibition of vulgar, bad taste. We had a comparatively wealthy man — I speak in no offensive term — with a comparatively big salary exempt from income tax, slapping his pockets and calling on those who spoke for the oppressed and depressed people of the country to give up being melancholy, to smile and be cheerful, to find some national anthem that would elevate them. It was about as disgusting an exhibition as I ever listened to in this House.
While I listened to that speech it reminded me of a cartoon that I saw many, many years ago. It showed a burglar with a smile from ear to ear and a gun up against the nose of his victim, while picking the pockets of his victim he said "Smile, damn you, smile." There was never a more apt caricature of the exhibition we witnessed here last night by a member of that Government that has ruined, or practically ruined, one of the great big industries in the country, a Government that has brought about a condition of insecurity, instability and uncertainty on the people of this country, that Government that has increased taxation and decreased the household revenue of practically everybody except a few sheltered profiteers. It is a monstrous thing for any member of that Government to get up, slap his pockets and sneer at those who dare to put in a word for the people who are suffering from the reactions of Government policy.
Admitting that we have to go through all this, that the Fianna Fáil wild oats has got to be sown, that the crop has got to be reaped and that the country has got to suffer through the process, why put up a spokesman to jeer at the misfortunes of the people? It would be much better if they put up somebody, as I have listened to from that Front Bench who could at least realise and appreciate the hardships of the people, and give expression to some words of sympathy with them in their suffering, and hold out a little hope that some day they will have rounded the corner and have seen the end of this insane controversy between this country and this country's markets. Instability and insecurity are caused by something deeper down than the financial and political squabble. They are caused by the ambiguity of the phrases given expression to by the President and Mr. Facing-Both-Ways kind of statements that are being made by members of the Government Front Bench.
At least the Government should know where their centre of gravity is, where the centre of gravity of the country is and whither exactly they intend that the country is heading. The people in this country and the people outside this country do not know exactly whether this Government intends to work this State as it was handed down to them, or as it exists at the moment, or whether they are not in alliance with their late allies outside who still are persisting in declaring their determination to undermine, to stab and to scrap this State by any means in their power, legal or illegal, within or without the law. One would think that, even having got into power on the shoulders of these allies, it is due to these allies outside and the people inside that a clear pronouncement should be made as to what is the policy on the major question of the continued existence, or termination of the existence of this State as it is constituted at the moment. I should like if time allowed to press more fully for a clarification of the atmosphere even in that one respect. I believe that if the atmosphere were clarified even in that direction, we would have taken a very definite step forward towards terminating the difficulties that exist in every commercial or mere material sense in this country. I believe that the troubles of a financial nature that exist between this country and the Government of Great Britain would be appreciably nearer a settlement if both the people here at home and the members of the other Government concerned knew exactly what is the policy of the present Government.
In expressing my opinion with regard to that, I am addressing my remarks more specifically to the President than to the members of his Government, because I do believe that certain members of his Government took certain courageous steps 12 months ago towards the reopening of the gates of the Irish farmers' market. If their efforts were not crowned with success it was not owing to the absence of moral courage on their part or their capacity to settle this question. It was because their efforts were scrapped and thrown on one side by a higher individual when they returned. I believe that in playing this in-and-out miserable political game that in fact the thing that is most dreaded by certain political bosses is a settlement. I would like before the Dáil adjourns to get something in plain, simple, clear language as to the attitude of the Government towards a settlement.
Every time there is a General Election on whether here in the Free State or up across the Border in Northern Ireland we have Fianna Fáil Deputies put up saying to the people: "We want your votes to terminate this economic war and to terminate it speedily." One last vote of confidence was asked by the Government from the people last January in order to terminate the economic war and they got that vote of confidence. But what the people got after was the statement that it was a good thing that the English market was gone and gone for all time. We want to know now and these people want to know whether, in the opinion of the present Government of the Irish Free State, it is a good thing to be rid of the British market for all time, and if that is their definite opinion, the people want to be informed why they are putting their hands into the taxpayers' pockets to provide bounties and subsidies of one kind or another to get more produce into the British market which at other times the Government boast that we have lost for all time?
There again we have that vague doddering kind of mentality. You have one Minister after another, meaning well, bringing in a Butter Bill and various other measures. We have seen these measures brought in ostensibly to help trade with the British market. And at the same time we are told of our fatal dependence on that particular market for certain agricultural produce in this country, and we have from the other end of the same bench this little kind of cock-a-hoop, "the British market is gone and gone for all time and that is a good job."
If we are to make up our minds that it is a good job that that market is gone and that it is gone for all time, then, no matter how we might disagree with that point of view, let it go out and let it be stated clearly and let us know in what direction the country is going. Let that be announced in a clear voice and in clear language. That situation and all these uncertainties affect the commercial life of the country, the domestic incomes of individuals in the country, and the continued existence of the greatest industry the country has or ever will have.
We have growing up a bigger menace, or a graver plot, against the stability and security of the ordinary people in this country. On the occasion of the last adjournment I took the opportunity to call attention to the Government's attempts to ban, bully and bludgeon an organisation of decent young men who were getting together in this country behind certain decent published aims and, if you like, as a reaction against other organisations that were getting together for the published aims and for the published objects of undermining and defying the laws of this State. We had a laboured attempt made by the Minister for Justice here to justify the imposition of a ban on that organisation. As I said then, I had often heard the Minister for Justice speak before and I was often impressed by him, but on that occasion he would impress nobody. Such evident paper evidence as he brought forward to justify the banning of an organisation that existed in every parish of the Twenty-Six Counties, without minimising what was brought forward, it was simply evidence that an individual here and an individual there had been found with a gun or a bullet. As I said on that occasion, if that were sufficient evidence to ban that organisation, because those individuals were members of it, the Minister might as well have gone further and banned the Roman Catholic Church in this country, because all those particular individuals were members of that Church. There was absolutely a jump over an impossible gap, a laboured attempt by what he produced in this House to justify the ban, but the members of that organisation complied with the ban, every one of them knowing in their hearts and souls that it was an unjust ban. Every one of them complied with it. Not satisfied with that attempt to provoke the members of that organisation into lawless bodies, we had a very big parade called off. There you had two deliberate attempts, to my mind, to provoke the members of that organisation into violent opposition to the law.
When those attempts failed we had a campaign throughout the country of beating them up and bullying them by the forces of the State, a further series of attempts to drive these young men into revolt, to make them go, through heat, passion or provocation, beyond the four corners of the law of this State. At the same time we had your Broy Harriers, direct servants of the State, and a mob organised as a kind of militia, all your forces moving with the deliberate intention of provoking that organisation into breaches of the law or of provoking the members, or the majority of that organisation into violent conflict with the law.
To-day we had a series of raids — I do not know how many but some hundreds of raids — on the homes of those individuals. We had the wives of officers of that organisation treated in a way that no woman should be treated by people in the uniform of officers of the State, with the idea: "if we do not provoke an individual by what we do to him we will provoke him by the way we treat his wife at home." It was about as despicable a series of raids as ever was carried out under the worst régime of Black-and-Tannery in this country. In those days at least they could advance the excuse that they were foreign people operating in a foreign country, that they were the agents of an outside power, and that something like war existed between this country and their country. There was some little shred of explanation for the armed raiders and the uniformed raiders in those days, but no such explanation can be advanced for the raiders that were selected to-day. I always understood that there was a police regulation to the effect that a policeman would not be employed within a certain distance of his own home, but to-day, and in recent days, we had members of this new force specially selected for special raiding: we had people in the uniform of the police selected to raid individuals who had arrested them in the old days of the civil war. We had every attempt, and every evidence in the particular men selected for particular raids, to revive all the hatred, all the bitterness, and all the passions of that sad period. We had them in Dublin, in Cork and in practically every county.
By your own Executive.
If the Deputy is anxious to speak he will get ample opportunity to do so, but I would much rather that someone on the Front Bench would speak, because it is not just political clap-trap but a serious thing — it is a very grave matter — that we are discussing. If the present policy, whether with the knowledge of the Executive Council or without the knowledge of the Executive Council, produces a result which would be the obvious and the natural result, then this whole countryside is going to have a very dismal Christmas instead of a happy Christmas. When I bring up these things here to-night I am bringing them up in the spirit of a man who is anxious to avert even sporadic bloodshed in the country or any further bitterness in arousing passions throughout the country. The exhibitions that we had to-day, and the exhibitions that we have had over the past six weeks with the knowledge of the Government, can only have one result if they are allowed to go on. I hope sincerely in the case of the men of strong will and of the clean civic sense who resisted all the previous attempts to drive them into armed or unarmed conflict with the law, that the law will still hold these men within the law. But I would say this, that the actions of Government servants, as well as the actions and activities of Government supporters outside this Dáil, are making it very difficult for people to keep all that organisation and all that spirit within the law.
Are we to have a continuation of the type of activity that we have had over the past five or six weeks? I have here in front of me details — the Minister is welcome to see them if he wishes — of up to 100 cases relating to brutal assaults on individuals, either because they associated themselves with a U.I.P. branch or with a branch of the Young Ireland Organisation, cases in which old men and young men were pulled out of their beds and beaten. Reports appeared in the newspapers in regard to at least 20 of these cases. In the documents before me we have the names and addresses of witnesses, where there were witnesses, of those assaults, and every scrap of information that is in those documents will be sent to the Minister for Justice, and we will test out how far the militia is obedient to the will of the Commander-in-Chief. I put it to the Commander-in-Chief and to the Generalissimos and the rank and file that the activities of the past six weeks, culminating in the activity which we witnessed to-day, must, to any man knowing this country, be calculated only to produce one effect.
I appeal to the members of that organisation not to play the Government game, and to show that this particular series of raids and beatings will not have the effect which I must say, clearly, I believe the Government is out to effect.
The motion before the House is "That the Dáil do now adjourn to 3 p.m. on Wednesday, January 31st, 1934." As no vote may be taken after 10.30 p.m. the Chair requests an assurance that if this debate continues till 11 p.m. the House is not to meet to-morrow, but will, automatically, adjourn to January 31st, 1934.
The Chair takes it that that is understood.
Agreed.
Deputy O'Higgins has referred to the insecurity and instability that exists in the country. There is one reason, if instability does exist, and it is the existence in this country of a certain set of conditions which I submit the Party opposite is not taking their part in trying to combat. Reference has been made here to the activities by the Government in dealing with an organisation which I suppose I must refer to as the National Guard. It is still referred to as the National Guard by members of the organisation opposite and still so described on its notepaper. We have heard Deputy O'Higgins say that the ban on that organisation has been loyally obeyed. Does not Deputy O'Higgins know, if he is in touch with this organisation, that that is untrue?
It is not untrue.
Does he not know that throughout the country, and in various parts of the country, there is a Young Ireland Association on top and the National Guard underneath? Is that the way to say that the ban is being loyally obeyed by the people opposite?
May I explain one point to the Minister in good faith? After the fusion of the parties there was a transition period before the fusion and absorption on top became effective right down along. During that transition period notepaper, stationery, etc., was headed Young Ireland Association, National Guard in brackets. Naturally officers in existence, secretaries and others, who had to carry on were National Guards. We had to continue during that change over.
It does not matter very much so far as the name is concerned. But when the organisation was banned it was banned because of certain objectives, and the use of certain methods to obtain those objectives. The organisation was banned on account of the methods it was adopting. On paper at any rate it went by the name of the Young Ireland Association. Were any of its objects changed? We know what its tactics and methods previously were. Were they altered? I am going to put on the records of this House documents in my possession showing the activities of that organisation since then. These documents will I believe convince anybody like some of the people opposite whom we know were straight about this matter — I refer to Deputy MacDermot in particular — will convince them at any rate that they were being fooled and that the Young Ireland Association was just merely a wing of a political organisation.
Let us start with the very day that this organisation was banned — 22nd August last. I do not propose to read all these documents in full but I propose to put them on the records of the House to show that they were available for everybody to read. This document was issued by Comdt. Cronin on 22nd August and was addressed to each district and company commander:
A Chara,
In the event of the National Guard being banned by the Government under the Constitution (Amendmen) Act, 1931, it will be the duty of every member to make a special effort to ensure that the work of the organisation continues without interruption, that its strength is increased and that it retains the sympathy and respect of the public.
The following line of action shall be pursued in all areas:—(1) A small number of active officers preferably single men in each division shall evade arrest and devote themselves to intensive organisation. (2) No volunteer shall absent himself from his home unless he is authorised to do so by the divisional director. (3) Blue shirts shall be worn and meetings and parades shall be held as usual and while nothing must be done to court the arrest of members or any clash with the State Forces the organisation must not be allowed to be driven underground or to become furtive. (4) Parades shall be held by every company at least once a fortnight and if possible once a week. (5) Volunteers who may be arrested shall declare their membership of the organisation and if brought before the Military Tribunal they shall recognise it as a court and treat it with ordinary respect.
Deputies
Hear, hear!
Deputies opposite say "Hear, hear" to that. Now I wonder will this get a "hear, hear" also:
They must not, however, give any information to the Tribunal or the police about other members of the National Guard or about their own movements or activities. (6) Volunteers who may be convicted by the Military Tribunal or other court on any charge of being members of the National Guard or of participating in its work shall not pay fines or give bail.
Is there any "hear, hear" to that from people who talk about respect for the law and respect for the court? The members of the National Guard were told that they must not pay fines and they must not give bail. Was not that the kind of thing we heard so much about: that the people would not recognise our courts and that they would not give bail and that they would not pay fines? We heard a lot about that——
They are instructed to recognise and respect the court.
I have read one document. We come now to a later document issued again by E.J. Cronin, as commandant and secretary:—
"To the officer in charge of each unit."
What is the date of that?
I have not got the date.
Why did you say it was later?
It takes up a later position.
"The United Ireland Party (Fine Gael) having now been definitely established with General O'Duffy, the Director-General of the National Guard, at its head, as president, and with six representatives of the National Guard on its Executive, certain political activities heretofore a responsibility of the National Guard or of the National Association will pass over to it. It is important, however, for all units to understand that whatever changes may be necessary as a result of the formation of the new Party the vital work on which the National Guard has been engaged must go on without slacking or interruption. Volunteers while playing a leading part in the new body must also do their own work zealously and conscientiously under their own officers and their own headquarters."
On the 13th September there was an order issued by General O'Duffy to each branch or parish unit of each district committee, constituency committee, county committee or other district unit of Cumann na nGaedheal, to the Centre Party or National Farmers and Ratepayers' Association, to the National Guard and to each Deputy. How it was addressed to the National Guard some weeks after it was proclaimed may be explained. I am not going to read all of it. As I stated, those documents will be available.
"The members of the National Guard will form a special youth section in the new Party. It will be called the Young Ireland Association, and will be under my own special direction. They shall, however, also be ordinary members of the United Ireland Party."
Read it all.
I said it would be available. I am not going to waste time.
Read it all.
I will read a few documents that were found on the night of the 23rd November in the house of Mr. Eugene O'Riordan, Northesk, Glanmire, County Cork. This letter is marked "confidential." It is letter No. 2, headed: "Cork City Divisional Headquarters, National Guard," and dated 25th September, 1933.
Re: Organisation of Divisional Intelligence Staff.
"You will please forward to Divisional Headquarters within the ensuing week the name of a member in your district suitable for appointment as District Intelligence Officer. The best type suited for the duties of D.I.O. should be chosen from some members already engaged in a mobile occupation such as postmen, insurance agents, athletic club members, postmasters, lorry and bread-van drivers, milk vendors, carriers, etc. Great care and discretion should be exercised for the appointment and the man chosen should be of sterling courage, possessing tact and intelligence, a good knowledge of local affairs, and a non-consumer of alcoholic beverages is desired. His name, address and duties in the district should be known only to you. At all roll-calls or parades or at any other district meetings he will be referred to and known as an ordinary member of the organisation. The drafting of district confidential reports are in preparation and will be issued to all concerned at an early date. A secret district code now in preparation will be used to and from Divisional Headquarters should the necessity arise for telegrams, etc. You will readily realise that intelligence of a militant nature will of necessity play a very important part in our internal organisation, and each member in your district as apart from the D.I.O. should be instructed from time to time as the district intelligence emanated from that source alone. Both the director and the vice are taking a special interest in this branch.
Mise le meas,
Eugene A. Riordan,
Divisional Secretary."
This intelligence system which this officer says he has been instructed to establish was of a militant nature. Of course, they laugh about that — persons who are so much immersed in a military atmosphere that they cannot get back to the difference between an ordinary political outlook and the outlook of a revolutionary body. I am sure they might explain that. They might also explain how it is that the sanction of those people over there is given to attempts that are to be made to tamper with State officials, and use them for the purpose of carrying out this militant intelligence that they have in mind. Did they approve, when they were in office, of any organisation using postmen, postmasters and other State officials for the purpose of forwarding the militant intelligence of an organisation of this kind? Do they approve now? I should like to hear "hear, hear" to that.
The Official Secrets case!
That is a very good way to avoid it. I should prefer if Dr. O'Higgins would give a straight answer.
If you could get anybody else you would put them there too, with the same result.
You dare not give a straight answer.
What do you want an answer to?
There is another letter of the 25th September also. It is letter No. 3. It is addressed to all district officers, and is from the same person, O'Riordan.
"It is not improbable in the near future that our present lines of communication, the postal service, may be closed to us for the delivery of despatches to and from divisional headquarters. It is also possible that despatches may be secretly censored. In order to combat this contingency, it would be well for district officers, on receipt of all correspondence, to closely examine same and the date of postage checked with the actual date of receiving same in order to prevent any leakage. Steps should be taken forthwith to establish in each district an auxiliary despatch service, enlisting the aid of friendly bus conductors, lorry and bread-van drivers, insurance agents and other such persons, who are engaged daily or biweekly in the carrying of merchandise or other work of a mobile nature to and from Cork city. Then at any time should the exigency merit it, the auxiliary services should be brought into operation. When district intelligence officers are appointed as per instruction contained in Divisional Administration letter No. 2, this work could be detailed to them with all due haste. Further, in order that communications will be regular, all inter-divisional correspondence in future, such as reports, parade statements, weekly and monthly returns, should be despatched from each district on a regular date of each week, and this procedure maintained throughout.
Mise le meas,
Eugene A. Riordan,
Divisional Secretary."
There is one also referred to as Divisional letter No. 1, which I propose to put on the record. It is dated the 25th September and is from the same gentleman. It is headed: "Re Weekly Parades." On the 15th September there is a letter from Ovens Bridge. It was also found in the possession of this gentleman whom I have already referred to.
Has this person been arrested?
That is a matter we will have to deal with. I am sure you will agree that he should be.
Has he or has he not?
Are you inviting me to do it?
Oh, no.
This letter reads:—
"I wish to report our progress during the last few weeks. We held our monthly meeting of the above two companies on Thursday night at Ovens. Three officers from Inniscarra were present, and five officers from the Ovens company were also present.
Business carried on:
"(1) Appointment of ‘Inner Circle' of seven men to deal with any emergency cases that may crop up from time to time."
The inner circle, I am sure, is familiar to a good many. The letter goes on:—
"(6) Arranged to meet at certain central place for meeting of District Officers and Inner Circle."
That, I am sure, would be familiar to some people. There used to be an inner circle in days gone by, and I think it is quite evident where the suggestion has emanated from now.
Where was the inner circle?
Deputy Dr. O'Higgins was listened to without interruptions for half an hour. The same rule ought to apply now.
I only interrupted because the Minister implied that he was conveying something to the House.
I did not mean in the slightest to insult Deputy Fitzgerald, nor did I mean to refer to him in particular as being a member of the inner circle in days gone by. He should not take it to himself in that way.
What inner circle?
There are other circulars here from 5 Parnell Square, Dublin. They were found in the house of a man named Quirke, of Drinagh, County Cork. There is one dated the 14th September which refers to certain matters and winds up by stating "As previously explained it must be the aim of the National Guard ..." That cannot be accounted for by Dr. O'Higgins' explanation about striking out "National Guard" and putting in "Young Ireland Association." This is dictated in the letter itself and typed in. The letter reads:—
"As previously explained it must be the aim of the National Guard to get all the representation possible on each executive set up by the United Ireland Party, so as to be in a better position to promote the growth and influence of the National Guard."
The letter is signed "Mise le meas, E.J. Cronin, Comdt.—Secretary."
Another letter of the same date reads:
" A Chara,
Will you please write to D. Kiely, Ovens, and inform him that the fusion of the C. na G. Party and N.G. should not stop the work of organisation of the National Guard. Steps should be taken to see that when the new parish committees are being set up that our organisation should have sufficient representation to enable them to control the committees.
Every effort should be made to increase and build up the strength of the organisation in all districts under his command. The organisation is maintaining separate headquarters and the work connected with the administration of the organisation will continue as heretofore.
Copies will be sent to T. Hyde, Ballinacurra, Midleton; J. Curtin, Main St., Midleton. The officer i/c Mid. Cork District.
Mise le meas,
J. P. Aherne."
Another letter, from 3 Merrion Square, dated 4th October, 1933, and signed E.J. Cronin, Commandant, says:—
" A Chara,
A series of Conventions in every county is being summoned for the purpose of consolidating locally the merger that has already taken place between the governing bodies of the three organisations.
The Convention for your County will be held ....
As previously explained it must be the aim of the Young Ireland Association to get all the representation possible on each executive set up by the United Ireland Party so as to be in a better position to promote the growth and influence of the Young Ireland Association."
In another letter, dated 13th September and signed by E.J. Cronin, I want to refer to this paragraph:
"The National Guard may be referred to in future as the ‘Young Ireland Association.'"
On the 13th September, 1933, there is a letter issuing orders to new district commanders, marked "Confidential." It reads:
"...District commanders are instructed to ensure that our members get sufficient representation on all committees being set up under the auspices of the United Ireland Party.... The National Guard must be the predominant factor on all such committees of the new Party."
It must be the predominant factor. That was how the fusion was being respected by E.J. Cronin. I see that Deputy Cosgrave is very much amused. I will read a document in a moment which will show what they think about him. There is another letter dated 23rd September, 1933, from 3 Merrion Square, signed by E.J. Cronin, which was also found on Quirke's premises. It refers to a public meeting held at the Mall, Cork, on Sunday, 1st October, 1933, and states:
"This being the first public meeting held by the new Party in your county, it is of the utmost importance that every available member of the National Guard in your district may be mobilised for the purpose of displaying our strength. You will further instruct your men to parade in uniform."
There is another letter, all of which I do not want to read, but which I wish to have mentioned on the records. It is dated 13th September and refers to the Local Government Elections, to try to get candidates elected and, I suppose, to keep the other people out in the cold. To show you how the bond was respected there is a letter from Mr. Seán Ruane, Kiltimagh. It is of no importance except for the postscript:
"Are we to refer in public to the National Guard as the Young Ireland Association?"
Commandant Cronin replying on 21st says:
"The National Guard may be referred to (in public) henceforward as the Young Ireland Association."
"In public" is in brackets, so that with one side of their mouths they shout for the Young Ireland Association, and with the other side they shout for the National Guard. There is a document here from Mylie Magee, Bishophiel, Ballymore-Eustace. I will not read the whole of the letter. It says:
"I am making very little headway with the Y.I.A. Some I approached would join if I could give them guns which is impossible at the moment."
He ends up by saying:
"We are very short of guns. I am on the track of two Colts .45. I don't know if I will be successful or not."
Whom is that letter addressed to?
To headquarters.
When was that letter got? What was the reply to it?
I want to refer to another aspect where a threat was used against a member of the Y.I.A., and the reply made by Commandant Cronin was:
"... Personally I am of opinion that it should be ignored but should you consider it necessary it is suggested that you send an unsigned warning to the leader of the opposition that he will be held responsible in the event of any of your men being interfered with."
What way did he intend to deal with it?
What do you suggest? Is it to turn the other cheek?
I see. There is no respect for law now. An eye for an eye. It is not to be the Government's duty to preserve peace or to do any investigation. We changed all that when we got into possession.
Send down the Broy Harriers.
There is another letter from Commandant MacManus addressed to "Dear Des." It was found this morning. I do not know who the gentleman is. A copy is also addressed to "Dear Hannon." A number of things are said in it. This is one paragraph:
"We forced de Valera to use the police to keep order at meetings, and we prevented intimidation on polling day."
I thought we got into office on intimidation. The National Guard said no, that they got orders to preserve the peace at meetings.
"Further than this, it has become more and more clear as we progress that we have a bigger destiny still to fill. To put it bluntly, Cumann na nGaedheal (Cosgrave's Party) is finished."
I knew I would be able to make the Deputy smile. He was a very prominent individual in the organisation, yet this is what he thinks of both organisations:—
"It largely does not exist in the country districts, except in an election, when a patchwork affair gets together and muddles through, very open to intimidation and even to bribery. The permanent part of it is a hotbed of jobbery, cliques and inefficiency."
That is what Commandant MacManus who knew all the inside work has to say about it.
And that justifies a ban?
It does not justify a ban, but I will show you what he says later:—
"The Centre Party, that many of us had such hopes in, has gone to pieces too. Frank MacDermot has, unfortunately, turned out a political opportunist of the worst kind; working for place and pulling strings with de Valera behind the scenes. This Party will disappear at the next election."
There is no other information of interest in the letter.
There were 200 raids to get political propaganda.
What is the date of that letter?
It is not dated.
Who wrote it?
Commandant MacManus.
Are you sure one of your agents did not write it?
You would like to deny it. If Commandant MacManus is able to deny that handwriting, several copies of which we have, which were issued to various other people, including "Dear Hannon," and so on, even outside this country, when collecting money, I am prepared to withdraw.
Does this justify a ban or using police for political purposes?
I want to show the relevancy of this when the Opposition are trying to convey to the people that they have control in some way over this organisation known as the National Guard — otherwise the Young Ireland Association. No one listening to the letter I read, from one of the most prominent members of the Y.I.A., working at the headquarters of the Opposition and Deputy MacDermot's office, would think that these people had any object in mind, except to push them aside.
They have no respect for them. They have no respect for what they consider the Party of Deputy Cosgrave which they say is extinct and they have no respect for the Party of Deputy MacDermot which they say has gone to pieces, Deputy MacDermot being a political opportunist. Does anybody for one moment think that the people over there are able to control this revolutionary organisation? We have General O'Duffy going through the country and trotting around in his ordinary clothes as a leader of a political Party and we have him the next day appearing somewhere else in uniform as the generalissimo. I suppose, of a revolutionary body. Can there be security or can there be any stability in a country where that thing goes on? I am not going to enter into the question of the raids to-day. Arms were got and ammunition was got. You say that you obey the law and that you would not associate with any people who did not obey the law and that you would not hold guns unless you had permits from the State in accordance with law. That is not so, as we have proved and as we were always of opinion it could be proved that there were guns and arms in the possession of you people and that you were waiting for the opportunity to use them. Those people outside were waiting to use them when a suitable opportunity arose. We are going to deal with the situation so far as removing the insecurity that exists is concerned. It is the duty of the Government to do that and people are not going to evade the law simply by changing the name of an organisation and continuing it with all its military trappings, all its objectives and all that and telling us that they are copying from another country, and telling us, a few weeks ago, of the great march there was to be on Dublin.
There are not going to be permitted any marches on Dublin by any person who thinks or considers himself some sort of heaven-sent leader who is going to lead a revolutionary Party in this country. That sort of thing is not going to be tolerated—tactics or tricks of that sort are not going to be tolerated. Nobody is going to interfere, and nobody has the right to interfere with political parties. They are entitled to free speech and we are doing our utmost to try to secure free speech for them. I know perfectly well what the denial of free speech is. I had experience of it and there was very little instruction sent out to ensure that it would be secured in Deputy Cosgrave's time, in one particular area, at any rate, and I can give the name.
Give us the name?
A place where it was known that whenever people on this side went to address meetings, they were stoned and attacked in the place itself.
I deny that absolutely.
You deny that absolutely?
Yes.
You deny it happened?
No, I deny that it was permitted to happen if it was brought to our notice.
We do not get these things brought to our notice and yet we try to ensure free speech.
You stopped my meetings actually.
Who stopped them?
The Minister for Industry and Commerce.
Reference has been made here to the manner in which the raids were carried out to-day and as to the maltreatment of women, and so on. I have no report of the way in which those raids were carried out——
Did you look for it?
Did I look for it? The first thing I heard of it was when Deputy O'Higgins mentioned it here.
Did you order the raids?
Certainly.
You knew that ammunition was found, but you did not know that a woman was abused or treated in a most discourteous manner?
When we carried out raids we carried them out in broad daylight. We did not carry them out three or four times in the middle of the night, and if anybody was arrested to-day we could guarantee that they would reach the prison and would not lose their lives by the roadside. Make no mistake about that. We are not trying to create here a civil war atmosphere.
I believe you are.
That is what you are doing.
If we were trying to create a civil war atmosphere here, perhaps we would have done, if we were made that way, what you did — what people under you did when people lost their lives on the way to the jails following raids and when people taken into your custody never saw the jail long after they were disarmed and you know that. You people over there who try to suggest that we deliberately maltreat people should be the last to make that suggestion.
This Minister has been speaking for something like 35 minutes. Does he mean to occupy the whole of the time?
I will conclude by saying that those matters will be fully investigated if the Deputy gives information.
One of the first things the Minister does is to break an agreement that the time would be divided half-and-half so that no reply could be given to his perfectly ridiculous speech. Not one tittle of evidence has he given of any justification for the ban that was put on this Association last August. Not one bit has he added to the case that was made by President de Valera when he addressed this House and tried to justify that conduct. Everything he has put forward shows the existence of an organisation, of a body of men, that is trying to obey the law despite everything that the Government is trying to do to prevent them. I am not interested in the professions of the Ministers; I am asking the country to judge of their acts and I am asking the country to judge of the acts of the National Guard, as they were. I ask the country to judge of the acts of the young men in the Young Ireland Party and not by their professions, because their professions are borne out by what they have done.
The Minister referred — I am sorry the time is so short—to the objects of this Association as it was before August. Was there a single bit of evidence to show that there was anything in their objects that was not perfectly legitimate, legal and patriotic? Not a single piece of such evidence was adduced here at any time, either now or previously by the President. Was there anything in their acts all through that period up to the time the Government shut their eyes to outrage after outrage committed in this country, or was there a single thing committed by members of that organisation that did not bear out the purposes they had put down as the purposes of that organisation? Yet the Government banned them. On what? What was the principal reason given here by the President himself for banning them—the libel, the lie against Deputy Mulcahy. That was the principal reason. On that he based the banning and now the Minister raids in an effort to get evidence to bolster up an act that they themselves were guilty of several months ago — the banning of these people. The Minister's professions of a desire for peace in this country are interesting. The time at my disposal is short — a couple of minutes — but I want to say that I am convinced that if you examine the conduct of the Government in the last three or four months, that conduct is open only to one explanation — a deliberate attempt on their part to goad a certain number of young men, knowing that they are young men, into illegal acts.
I echo the view of Deputy Dr. O'Higgins and make a serious appeal to those young men not to be goaded by any of the measures taken by the Minister for Justice, the President or the Executive Council. I ask them here not to play the game that the President of the Executive Council is anxious they should play. I appeal to them not to play his game. The President banned them and the only reason for banning them was that the youth of this country was slipping away from him.
That was the reason of the banning and that was the reason of the acts of provocation since. I appeal to every one of these young men not to be goaded by the President, by the Minister for Justice or by acts of the Executive Council, or by acts of their allies through the country. Arms were found to-day. I should like to know the character of the men — I think I heard the name of one of the men engaged in the raids. I heard his name on many occasions, several years ago, when our Government was in power and he was the man to send — and we are asked to believe that the alleged ammunition found was there. Personally, I would not hang a cat on the evidence of that man if he was the man in question.
The jaundiced mind of Deputy O'Sullivan.
The bantam will not have an opportunity of speaking on this occasion.
Deputies of the inner circle.
In every organisation there are inner committees. Even the Cabinet——
One of the holy seven.
Even the Cabinet is an inner organisation of that Party opposite.
Yes, but the Party knows it exists.
But it does not know where it is going.
The other question that was completely burked was where we stand and where the country stands. No attempt was made to answer that. Stunts — by a man who is one day looking across the Border, across the frontier and having a peep over the wall, and then, to-day, these raids to justify an action taken several months ago — to find evidence that in the words of the Minister for Justice, they knew existed but without any evidence at all, they banned this Association several months ago. Was that not provocative? What evidence had you then? What evidence is there now? You say that the aims of that Association have not changed and that the Association has not changed. What was illegal in that organisation and in the objects of the Association? What was illegal in any of the various objects set out? The President said that they were called into existence in the General Election of 1932. That is not so. The first time that an organisation of that kind was called into existence was when the head of this Party, in the constituency to which he was elected by one of the biggest votes given in this country, was not allowed—and there was no ample protection to see that he was allowed — to address his people. We asked the President the other day to say whether he was going to carry out his pledge in reference to dealing with the people who said that they would not allow freedom of speech and said it openly. That was several months ago and no action has since been taken. Still considering it? I have no doubt that he is.
In that farrago of nonsense which the Minister for Justice has brought forward in order to try to prove a case there is not a document later than the fusion and apart even from that, what do they amount to? Is there any suggestion of illegalities even now, after all the provocative acts on the part of the Government? As the hour has passed, I finish by again making a solemn appeal to all the young men in this country — the right-thinking young men — not to allow themselves to be goaded into illegal actions of any kind by this action of the Government as they did not allow themselves to be so goaded by previous actions of the Government.
The Dáil adjourned at 11.3 p.m. to 3 p.m. on Wednesday, 31st January, 1934.