I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."
Finance (Customs Duties) Bill, 1934—Second Stage.
Could the Minister give the House any information as to what revenue has been derived from the previous Finance Bill dealing with the same subject, and whether he anticipates any revenue to be derived as a result of this Bill; also what were the imports of butter during the currency of the previous Bill or Act and what he anticipates will be the imports of butter under this Bill?
Dr. Ryan
It is not anticipated that any revenue will be derived from this, because at the same time that this Bill is in operation there is a prohibition against the importation of butter under the Stabilisation Act. However, there is a legal formality which makes it necessary to have this Customs duty because, under the Stabilisation Act, the bounty must not exceed the amount of duty in operation. It is not necessary, from a protective point of view at all, but is necessary in order to fulfil the obligation under the Stabilisation Act and to keep the duty at a certain height so that it will be at least as high as the bounty; but, as I said, as the importation of butter is prohibited, it is not anticipated that any revenue will be derived.
Could the Minister tell us whether or not it will have the effect of keeping up or raising the price of butter in the Saorstát; and could he tell us also what amount of money he anticipates will be raised by way of the levy and paid out in bounty during the current year, and what amount will be paid as subsidy on export?
Dr. Ryan
It will not have any effect, certainly, on the price of butter, because that would be regulated entirely by the levy and bounty. If there were not any levy or bounty in operation, of course, the price of butter, naturally, would go down to the export price level, because there is a surplus in the country. Accordingly, this duty would have no effect whatsoever during the summer months, at any rate, on the price of butter. With regard to the question asked as to the amount collected by way of levy and paid by way of bounty, roughly it may amount to somewhere between £600,000 and £700,000.
That is the levy?
Dr. Ryan
Well, both of course. At the end of the year they amount to about the same. At any one period during the year they may be quite different; the bounty may be much higher than the levy, but at the end of the year it is supposed to balance out, and for the last two years we have succeeded in getting it to balance out within, say, £4,000. I have not got the exact figure yet for last year, because the figures have not been audited yet. The amount that it is expected may be paid by way of subsidy, as apart from bounty, probably will be between £400,000 and £500,000.
Does the Minister tell the Dáil, then, that so far as the two sums are concerned, it amounts to £1,100,000?
Dr. Ryan
About that.
And about four-elevenths of that is in the nature of a subsidy?
Dr. Ryan
Yes.
That is paid out of the £2,400,000?
Dr. Ryan
Out of the export bounty fund—yes.
That was the sum approximately paid out last year?
Dr. Ryan
Yes.
Has the Minister estimated that it would cost the same sum in the present year?
Dr. Ryan
I think it will cost a little more this year. The level of prices on the export market is likely to be somewhat lower this year than last year.
Has the sum paid in subsidy been affected by variations in the price on the export market, and has that variation in price been in any way affected by either hold-ups or discharges of butter on the market?
Dr. Ryan
From the Free State?
Yes.
Dr. Ryan
I do not think so. I do not think our holding up or discharge of butter has any influence on the British market.
I do not know whether the Minister is aware that the Minister for Industry and Commerce addressed himself to this matter some time ago, I think in Limerick, and at that time he declared that the price of New Zealand and Australian butter was 8d. per lb., while the quotation on the market was from 110/- to 114/- per cwt. If the Minister for Agriculture ever reads any of the speeches of his confrére he might, perhaps in his spare moments, correct the mistakes made by the Minister for Industry and Commerce.
Dr. Ryan
I always read them.
You are too busy I suppose.
Question put and agreed to.