Skip to main content
Normal View

Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 9 May 1934

Vol. 52 No. 6

Financial Resolution No. 1. - Income Tax and Surtax.

I beg to move:—

(1) That income tax shall be charged for the year beginning on the 6th day of April, 1934, at the rate of 4/6 in the pound.

(2) That surtax for the year beginning on the 6th day of April, 1934, shall be charged in respect of the income of any individual the total of which from all sources exceeds one thousand five hundred pounds and shall be so charged at the same rates as those at which it was charged for the year beginning on the 6th day of April, 1933.

(3) That the several statutory and other provisions which were in force during the year beginning on the 6th day of April, 1933, in relation to income tax and surtax shall have effect in relation to the income tax and surtax to be charged as aforesaid for the year beginning on the 6th day of April, 1934.

(4) It is hereby declared that it is expedient in the public interest that this Resolution shall have statutory effect under the provisions of the Provisional Collection of Taxes Act, 1927 (No. 7 of 1927).

This is the usual clause imposing income tax and surtax for the year and providing for the continuance of previous enactments.

The usual procedure is to adopt the Resolutions so that they may take effect as from the day they are proposed. Then the debate takes place on the last Resolution. I presume Deputies realise that they will have several opportunities of debating these Resolutions. They will have the Report Stage within ten days, and then the Finance Bill which implements these Resolutions. A discussion can take place on the Second Stage, the Committee Stage, and so on.

Last year and the year before a brief debate took place on Resolution No. 1.

If the House so decides, a discussion can take place now.

It was a very brief discussion, but it had perhaps, the advantage of elucidating certain things that were not clear in the Minister's Budget statement.

If the House desires to follow that course, very well.

The statement just read by the Minister is divided into two parts and, so far, I have been unable to disentangle them sufficiently to be in a position to say which of the two was the more remarkable, the Budget question or the political question. I have a very strong suspicion that the political question was the one that was dominant throughout the whole of the Minister's statement. We had a résumé of the case for the retention of the land annuities and we had a reference to what was called the Secret Agreement. I have already stated in this House and out through the country that anything which affected this country in connection with that agreement was stated quite publicly in the Dáil. The Dáil knew what it was doing. If it did not know, it was told, and it was only a person of remarkable stupidity who would be unable to appreciate what was contained in that agreement or in what way it affected the country.

We are told now we have got rid of a debt of something like £92,000,000. The State has got rid of it; that is quite true. The State has got rid of it, but, like all people who act in a questionable manner in a case of that kind, it has put it over on the shoulders of somebody else. The people have not got rid of it; the people are paying it and the goods of this country are taxed in order to ensure that the people of the country pay it. When you are setting out a balance sheet such as the Minister attempts in connection with one portion of his speech, showing that the State has escaped a liability of £92,000,000, there should be put down on the other side what somebody else has to shoulder in connection with the State's escape from its liability. As we are talking about secret agreements, perhaps the Ministry would give us some information as to any negotiations they have had during the last two years in connection with the settlement of this matter.

Dealing with the subject-matter before us, one or two things stand out prominently. The first is the size of this Budget. It is the largest we have had yet. The Estimates of receipts and expenditure for the last two years have not been very close approximations of the results. We have received, according to the Minister, much more money than was anticipated. He spent much less than he estimated. According to the White Paper, we have not spent within £1,750,000 of the sum which was asked by the Government and voted by the House. The net result of the whole thing is that we are presented by the Minister with new imposts amounting to £200,000 and a remission of £562,000. The net result of that is that the taxpayer is better off after this remarkable year to the extent of about £360,000. If I am wrong, the Minister can correct me on those figures.

One or two things stand out in connection with the Budget as it is before us and last year's Budget. We were told by the Minister last year that he proposed to borrow half the cost of the bounties, which were estimated at a sum of £2,450,000. They cost £1,812,000. In the course of the Budget he said it was not necessary to borrow in connection with them. He now proposes to borrow three-quarters of the £2,450,000. He is going to borrow £1,500,000. It looks as if that particular finance in connection with the funded arrears is most haphazard. The Government does not owe the money, but it imposes the debt on the Land Commission annuitants throughout the country. It then proceeds to provide bounties and subsidies for agricultural produce. Having provided them, it borrows money on the strength of the debt it has imposed on the land annuitants and we are all happy afterwards. It was not necessary last year, but it is necessary this year.

During the few years the Minister was in Opposition he criticised his predecessor in office for certain deductions that he made for non-spending in respect of estimated expenditure. The Minister usually deducted the sum of £600,000 which he anticipated would not be spent. Last year in a fit of piety the Minister exclaimed: "I will not follow that bad example in respect of this expenditure; I will reduce it by half." He took off £338,000—a rate of 1½ per cent. This year a larger sum is required and he arbitrarily fixes 4 per cent. Having regard to the overestimation of last year, if the same policy be adopted this year that amount is not an overestimate.

Now we come to consider how it was the Budget of last year was so satisfactory from the Minister's point of view. There was £450,000 included last year for unemployment insurance and it was not spent. There was £200,000 for relief schemes and it was not spent and there was £638,000 for bounties and subsidies which the Minister did not spend. These are very considerable sums. This year we have a whole accumulation of figures running into hundreds of thousands. Is it intended to spend them?

Last year, when they were introducing the Unemployment Insurance Bill, it was to function in the earlier part of the year. It came in about the 1st January. As a matter of fact, it did not come into operation until very late in April, and in some places it may not have commenced to operate yet. In one case to-day, in answer to a member from Cork, where, owing to the delay the Cork local authorities had to provide the money for the relief of unemployment, the Minister had no funds at his disposal to provide for a refund of that money. It is not much use in providing Estimates here which people do not intend to spend. It is not fair to taxpayers if it is not intended to spend the money derived from such taxation, and from the Minister's happy statement in connection with last year's results, to give relief to the extent of £562,000 while imposing about £200,000. That does not bear out all the magnificent things he told us about.

The Minister had one note running all through his speech, and I should advise him to get rid of it. It betrays an inferiority complex. With regard to everything he does, he is like the schoolboy explaining to the schoolmaster that "somebody else did it before I came in this morning." The Minister should get rid of that. As I say, it is an inferiority complex. He should get rid of that schoolboy attitude and grow up and face his duties like a man. Let him stand for whatever he is doing, and when he is examining others and finding out what they did before they came into office, let him take the whole of the circumstances into account. The Minister will recollect that he entered into possession of a considerable sum for land annuities. He does not mention it. He entered into possession of a considerable sum of money in the Exchequer. He does not mention it. He also entered into possession of Estimates which taxed the country £2,000,000 for pensions and so on. He uses that for his own purposes. If anybody uses other people's money they can afford to appear to be very princely in their spending, but I should not advise the Minister to practise that principle in private life.

The Budget, in my opinion, is too big. It is putting too great a cost on the community. The present condition of our main industry in this country does not warrant and will not be able to bear such heavy expenditure, and I think that some consideration, some extra consideration, ought to have been given to the needs and requirements of that main industry. Even if the Minister was only able to spend £1,812,000 last year on subsidies and bounties—if he considers that they are the best way to help the situation— does he really mean to spend £2,225,000 this year, or is it simply an inducement to the farmers to smile on this Budget? The Minister would be well advised, before he again concerns himself with a balance sheet, to take into account all the capital items that were liquidated by his predecessors, and the capital liabilities that were left behind, and he should remember that many of these capital liabilities might not have been laid upon the shoulders of this country if it were not for the Minister's comrades. He should remember that.

The old story.

It is only a "might."

Well, for the Deputy's information I will say certainly. Borrowing against these deferred annuities, in my judgment, is not sound finance. It would have been better, in the circumstances of the case, to have utilised last year's surplus than to borrow against something which, in all honesty, is not a moral debt on the part of the land annuitants of this country, and there are others besides the Land Commission annuitants, people who hold under fee farm grants who are even in a worse position than the Land Commission annuitants. So long as the Government has the idea that, by escaping a debt which they transfer to the shoulders of other people, they are doing good work for this country, so long will we have huge Budgets such as this, and so long will we have instability in the State.

And surpluses?

Where are they?

I should like to say one or two words. The statement of the Minister for Finance may have had certain merits possibly from the point of view of Party propagandists, but I cannot concede to it the merit of lucidity. He has produced for us two figures representing surpluses. One is a figure of £1,355,000 representing a realised surplus on the year that has just gone by. I have failed to discover in his statement any mention of what he has done with that surplus. Last year, he had a similar surplus of £1,141,000, a realised surplus from the year before that, and on that occasion said that it was considered the best Treasury practice to devote realised surpluses to the reduction of debt and that he proposed to act in accordance with that principle or with as close a similarity thereto as of twin to twin. Exactly how has he carried out that principle this year in relation to the sum of £1,355,000?

His second figure is an estimated surplus in the year that lies before us— a figure of £1,202,000. On page 30, of this monumental work of his we are presented with a deficit on the year of over £6,000,000. Between pages 30 and 38 that deficit is converted into a surplus of £1,200,000 by a simple process of announcing enormous borrowings that he is going to indulge in. I think that he might have put before us, in a tabular form, a statement that would have elucidated all that. The general result in one's mind of this advance from a deficit of £6,000,000 to a surplus of £1,200,000 is that some form of jugglery has been practised at the expense of the innocent onlookers. The Minister is proposing to borrow something over £7,000,000. I have not added up the figures, but it is in or about that; and he is going to do that largely on the strength of his belief in the fundamental soundness of the agricultural industry in this country, because he is going to borrow against his hopes of collecting funded land annuities and he is going to borrow under the heading of Local Loans on the expectation that the ratepayers, in due course, will be able to meet the obligations thereby created.

Naturally, like everybody else, I welcome the reduction of 6d. in the income tax, but I cannot help feeling that there is a relief that ought to come even before that, and that is a relief for the people who have been prevented by Government policy from earning any income at all. I refer to the farmers. I think it would have been very much more creditable to the Government, if they have got a real surplus, and not one arrived at merely by jugglery, if they had done something to re-establish the fundamental industry of the country.

When will the Budget be fully debated?

On the last Resolution, the whole financial policy of the Government will, I presume, be debated.

I do not know what the practice has been in this House, but I feel that it should have been as easy for the Government to have provided a copy of the Minister's statement for every Deputy, or to provide the House with at least a dozen copies. We could then follow the speech with some intelligence. We could not follow a long statement like that and retain in our minds the cardinal points in it. There was no question of delaying the statement for any specific purpose, because just as the Minister sat down we got a copy of it. Why did not Deputies get copies when the Minister rose to make his speech? If we had got copies then we could mark the points in it and we would be ready to debate it. No Deputy could be ready to say anything unless he had an opportunity of reading it.

That is the reason why discussion is usually postponed to another day.

I hope that we will have no guillotine this year, as we had last year, and that all the wild statements of the Minister will be nailed.

The Deputy does not propose to answer now statements made last year.

No, but I fear the consequences this year having regard to the lesson learned last year.

The Deputy's fears are unfounded.

The last Deputy got up to explain that he could not make a speech. That was rather unnecessary. Deputy Cosgrave got up to show that he should not make a speech. Miserable, horrible, rotten bad Budget! That is what it looks like to Deputy Cosgrave. A rotten week-end is ahead. What the devil are they going to say on the public platforms on Sunday next?

Wait and see. Will the Deputy come on a platform with me and I will tell him?

That is a challenge.

That is all right. I offered a challenge to Deputy Cosgrave, to be handcuffed to him through a general election, and to go on his platform he to come on mine. Answer it. I offered to stand the whole time on Deputy Cosgrave's platform, not on that of one of the minnows. What is wrong with this Budget?

6d. off income tax.

Yes, that is wrong! The Deputy told us last year about the extra three sixpences they put on the income tax. Why did he not tell us about the seven they put on before? Why does he not congratulate us now on taking off the first of the three, the beginning of the ten? Does he want that sixpence put back on the income tax? Come on, answer.

The Deputy stands for having no sixpence on income tax. That is why I am admiring his contribution to this debate.

Does the Deputy stand for putting back sixpence on the income tax?

Does the Deputy stand over his pamphlet, "No Income Tax"?

Absolutely, that tax shall not be charged upon those enterprises in Ireland made up of Irish capital. Did the Deputy ever read the pamphlet?

It is time you did. I stand for having done what was actually said by authoritative exponents of what was called the no income tax scheme.

But that did not put it into practice.

We are beginning. Does the Opposition stand for putting back sixpence on income tax? Answer that.

The answer to that is: Do you stand over your pamphlet?

The answer to the question is to ask another one. They will not get away with that this week-end. Does the Deputy's Party stand for putting back 6d. on the income tax?

He stands for taking off more.

There are more Deputies there than the loquaciously informed Deputy on the Front Bench. Does any Deputy in the Opposition stand for putting the 6d. back on income tax?

Who put it on?

Does any Deputy stand for putting it back? Does any Deputy stand for putting back 4d. on tea?

Who put it on?

It has been suggested that there might be a brief discussion on the first Resolution. If the Deputy desires to initiate a general discussion, he should remember that a rebate of 4d. on tea has nothing to do with the first Resolution. If the discussion is to be general in one instance it will be general for all Deputies. The Opposition limited debate to two brief speeches. I deliberately draw the attention of the Deputy to that fact.

I will confine myself strictly to the contribution of my colleague from Cork. His assistant said that this Budget was jugglery. He has at least the excuse that Deputy Cosgrave has not, that he does not know the kind of jugglery that went on in creating the Budgets of our predecessors. Of the three leaders of that Party, one of them boasted that for 12 years he had no responsibility for the Budget; the second had no knowledge of it, but the third was culpable for all. Let us see the jugglery by which Cumann na nGaedheal Budgets were balanced. The Saving Certificates did not pay the interest on them. That was left over for their successors. Income tax. Oh, no, in a critical moment they did not raise it. They only collected two years together. They just anticipated one year's payment. Jugglery! The House will remember the suggestion that went about, that the Budget might be balanced by raising the tax upon beer. Oh no. They would not do a thing like that. What they did was, they took in some of the existing credits. Jugglery! Honest finance! They then gave us an unemployment bill of £250,000. Did they get it out of income? Oh no. They said there is £250,000 which we might get from the British over some Road Fund. We will assume we have got it, and we will pay unemployment out of it, but we will leave it to our successors to raise that £250,000 out of revenue, which we pretended we were going to get from the British, but did not. These are all specific items in a Budget of jugglery. That is only the beginning of it. Another time they said: "Oh, well, we must in our Budget provide for the relief of unemployment." How did they do it? They provided £250,000 and handed it over to the Land Commission to expend it, knowing that the Land Commission could not do so. What happened?

On a point of order, you ruled, Sir, that there was to be no general discussion now. That is what I understood. If Deputy Flinn is to indulge in a general discussion we must get an opportunity to reply. The Deputy is simply indulging in boorishness and showing bad taste.

The Chair did not rule, but suggested that there should be no general discussion now. If the Parliamentary Secretary follows the line he is now pursuing. discussion will inevitably become general, as other Deputies cannot be precluded from replying.

I am perfectly satisfied, and I leave unfinished the story that will have to be told in this House if anybody on the other side in relation to Budgetary provision accuses this side of the House of jugglery.

Let us hear the story.

I do not know how far that kind of—one hesitates to employ the vernacular word which would suit the Parliamentary Secretary's oratory —talk is to be allowed to go. I certainly, however, have no hesitation in adopting the term to which he takes such great exception, and the House will listen with interest to hear the Minister for Finance rebut the charge of jugglery. When he emerges with the cry of surplus, as he borrows between £7,000,000 and £8,000,000, and when he puts up all the loyal boys behind to go on shouting surplus, it calls back to mind the old fairy tale of the emperor's clothes. The emperor went out naked, with a train behind him saying, "What a lovely suit of clothes," and a great many innocent people began to say, "Well, if everybody of importance can see a beautiful suit of clothes upon the emperor, it is not safe in this State to say that he has not got a suit on." Then some simple, honest man came forward and said, "This man is naked." Suddenly all the people opened their eyes and said, "He is." The Minister for Finance stands forth to-day with a surplus, apparently ignorant of the embarrassing fact that he is naked. I invite him now to cover his nakedness and tell us what the true significance of the word "surplus" is when it comes from a Fianna Fáil Minister for Finance. Are we to understand that a Fianna Fáil surplus means that we are spending £6,000,000 more than we have got? If that is the meaning of a Fianna Fáil surplus, we shall understand in future that when a surplus is proclaimed from a Fianna Fáil Deputy we may expect a surplus of expenditure over income, not a surplus of income over expenditure.

I have heard it said that the secret of success in any campaign is good staff work. The speeches that we have just listened to from the Opposition Benches would seem to indicate that their staff work has gone to pieces.

We shall be reading your own speeches one of those days.

On Monday, I understand, a statement was issued from the headquarters of the Fine Gael organisation proclaiming that last year we had a very substantial surplus on the Budget. I notice that some of the Press organs which support the Fine Gael organisation boycotted that statement. At any rate, it has been put on record by the Opposition. Last night, I understand, that a statement was also issued from the Fine Gael organisation proclaiming that we ought to have, on the published figures, a surplus on this year's Budget. Now we have been told by the Opposition spokesmen in the House that we neither had a surplus on last year's Budget, nor could we have a surplus on this year's Budget. As I said, it is obvious that their line of communication has been broken and their staff work has gone to pieces.

Perhaps the Minister is referring to me. I am not conscious that anybody said that there was no surplus on last year's Budget.

There were, however, one or two minor points that were touched upon by Deputy Cosgrave which, I think, are quite capable of a simple and reasonable explanation. He asked why it was that last year we had provided £2,450,000 for export bounties and subsidies and only expended £1,800,000. The explanation is quite simple, because there must be a substantial carry-over from last year into this. The accounts for the year only represent the Exchequer issues for the year. During the year many export bounties and subsidies fell due, some of which, on account of the difficulty in producing the relative documents on the other side, remain still to be paid. When we were preparing our Estimate we had to go on the basis that all those bounties and subsidies would be claimed in the financial year during which the exports occurred.

Similarly in regard to the relief schemes, it was the practice, I understand, previously in administering relief schemes that the moment the Estimate was expended all work stopped, irrespective of whether a pier had been only half built or not. The next year a new scheme was adopted to rebuild the unfinished pier that had been washed away. That is not the sort of way in which we administer the people's business. There has to be a carry-over from year to year. Our endeavour has been to ensure that as much money as is voted by the House will be spent within the year to which it has been allocated. In this year we have succeeded in reducing the carry-over to a much greater proportion than was possible by our predecessors. Deputy MacDermot said that though I mentioned the surplus I had failed to say what I had done with it. The surplus on the Budget for the year 1932-33 was, as I stated in my Budget statement for that year, applied in accordance with the best principle, to the reduction of debt. This year the surplus on the Budget for last year has been applied to avoid incurring debt.

The Minister stated that the reason why they were not able to spend £2,450,000 was that there was a carry-over. Was there not a carry-over from the previous year?

A much smaller one in this.

One did not balance the other?

What is the meaning of it, then? There must be some period in which the money will be spent. If you estimate for £2,500,000 and spend less than £2,000,000 you must reach a point when the carry-over from one year will balance the other. Does the Minister expect to spend more money this year on that Service than last year?

Although the amounts are similar.

Resolution put and agreed to.
Top
Share