I have been advised from all sides of the House to-day to abolish local authorities, or at least to take certain powers out of their hands and to use these powers myself as Minister. Others have said that I should be more democratic. Deputy Mulcahy, several times in his speech, talked about the necessity for democracy. A Minister has to consider all angles of every problem that is put up to him. My own personal anxiety and my own wish would be to have democracy rule to the fullest extent in the country, from the Government down right through all the local authorities, and to try to urge and encourage and show the locally elected people what they should do in present circumstances to meet the problems that face them. If any sensible man tries to regard many of these problems, housing for one, from a non-Party or non-political standpoint—if it is possible for some of us to get outside ourselves and regard such problems from a non-political angle—he will have to realise that that problem of housing is not being tackled by some local authorities in the way it should be tackled. The work is not being done in some of these places, and then the Minister has to face the question of what he is to do. I, personally, dislike taking the powers out of the hands of local authorities if I can see any chance at all of getting them to do their duty. If, however, I am convinced that they are standing in the way, then I am quite prepared to act the autocrat. If I believe it is in the best interests of the community, I am prepared to take these powers and act the autocrat.
Another thing that is closely related to housing is public health. I should like to act the autocrat there also, but I hesitate to do so. Take the subject referred to by Deputy Dr. Rowlette in his excellent speech to-day—the number of county councils that have refused to put into operation the Act enabling them to appoint county medical officers of health. Undoubtedly, they are doing grave injury to the community by such inaction. Since I came into office I have tried by correspondence and by meeting members of the local authorities and putting up to them the great advantages that have accrued to the populations, and particularly to the children, in the counties where county medical officers of health are and of the good things that are associated with the work of the county medical officer of health in counties where the system is in operation—I have tried in these cases to impress all this on the local authorities, both individually and collectively, and I have not succeeded, since I came into office, in getting one additional county medical officer of health appointed. I am afraid I will have to try other methods.
Deputy Belton and Deputy Costello referred to the allotment of labourers' cottages in County Dublin, and I think at least one other Deputy referred to the same subject. There is power under the Housing Act, 1932, to make regulations for the selection of tenants for houses in insanitary areas where insanitary areas have been demolished. It is laid down in the Act that one of the conditions in which subsidy will be paid is that in the letting of cottages, preference will be given to agricultural labourers who are living in one-roomed dwellings where
(a) one or more members of the family is, or are suffering from tuberculosis; or
(b) one or more members of the family, exclusive of the parents, has or have attained the age of 16 years; or
(c) the dwelling has been condemned as being unfit for human habitation.
Where these statutory requirements are carried out, there is no interference whatsoever with the local authority, and if all these requirements have been insisted on, the local authority is free to select the tenants as it wishes. If these requirements which are in the Statute are not carried out, it is the Minister's duty to see that they are carried out and that the type of people referred to here get preference. In the particular case in County Dublin which has been referred to, these people did not get the preference, and tenants other than those for that type of house were selected, in some cases, but not in all, and the Department refused to allow these tenants who did not come within the statutory regulations to be put into these houses. That applies all over the country.
I do not want to exaggerate, and I do not want to claim anything that is not absolutely accurate, but I believe that, to put it mildly, we have caused to be built in the last year and a half as many houses of one kind or another, in the various categories with which the Housing Act of 1932 deals, as were built during the ten years of the late Government's régime. I am not satisfied that, even with that, we have done all that should be done. It is not in the Minister's or the Department's power to go into every area and do the work. There are areas which have not done their duty, and where a crying need for housing still exists.
There is not a Deputy in this House —I do not care what constituency he comes from—who, if he cares to go into his constituency, as evidently Deputy Costello did, judging by the way he was impressed, and it must be for the first time, with the slum areas in Dublin, who will not find abominable slums, conditions which any Christian man ought to be thoroughly ashamed of. They exist in every constituency in the country and every Deputy, every time he speaks, ought to beg and urge the local authorities to do their duty in this matter of housing. The more Deputies go, as Deputy Costello evidently did very recently, into the slums in their own localities, the more I am satisfied they will back the Government—this Government or any other Government. If we do not finish the job, as I think we will, of abolishing the slums, back the Government that will, but, for God's sake, help us to get the slums condemned and abolished and new and proper houses put in their place.
We may talk all the politics we like in this place and elsewhere, but I am sure that nobody here would want to keep the festering sore of rotten housing to be used as a football between the political parties—and that is what some Deputies are inclined to use it as—to prevent houses being built in certain areas so that it may be thrown in the face of this Government that: "After all, you failed to do what you promised us you would do." I can give the names of counties in which the work is not being done, and in which they ought to be ashamed of themselves for not doing the work. As I say, I do not want to act the autocrat; there is nothing of the dictator about my composition, but I would think it was the duty of any Minister, if, after due warning, the local authorities do not carry out their duty and use the generous grants that are at their disposal, and the compulsory powers of acquisition of land wherever necessary, to go into that area, take the powers of the local authority and do the job himself. While we have not done all that we might have done—and of that there is no doubt—and while all the houses that might have been built have not been built in the last 18 or 20 months, there have been completed, up to the end of March, 4,989 houses. There are in course of erection 6,115 houses; tenders have been accepted or invited for 7,311 houses; land has been acquired for 6,499 houses; schemes are under consideration in respect of 5,843 houses, but there are some thousands of these which have been under consideration since the Act was passed, and they have not got much further. That is one of the things I complain of.
I have loads of figures here relating to what is being done with regard to houses in various areas, but I do not think I will weary the House with them. We have not done all that we might have done, but we have tried to press forward housing, and I would sincerely ask and beg for the enthusiastic help of every member of this House in pushing forward housing schemes all over the country, for, God knows, they are badly needed. Deputy Norton referred to the cleaning up of rural towns. I have asked that the attention of all officials and members of local authorities be called to the conditions of towns, and the smaller towns more particularly, all over the country, where useful work could be done in clearing up derelict buildings and ruinous sites. Even if they were never used again as housing sites, the cleaning of them would add considerably to the appearance of the town, and the same areas might be used as playgrounds. The question of burial grounds, to which Deputy Norton referred, has often been referred to over the last ten years in this House. Something has been done from time to time by the boards of health through the country but there yet remains a considerable amount to be done in that direction.
On the question of housing, Deputy Norton referred to the staff, and so did Deputy Corry and some others. I think there is an ample outdoor staff now. The staff, both outdoor and indoor, has been added to in the last year. I have often raised the question, and I think at present that they are getting over the arrears. There was a considerable accumulation of arrears, but I think that has been got over. I can tell the House that if I find there is a necessity for an increase of staff in order to speed up the work I certainly will press the Minister for Finance to allow us to get that extra staff.
There were certain schemes and public health works that Deputy Norton referred to, and in which Deputy Minch was also interested. It is true that those schemes have been delayed, but it is not altogether the fault of the Department. Some fault did lie with the Department because the plans were finally approved late in the year, and when they were finally approved last year the money was not available; it had been allocated elsewhere. As a matter of fact, where the money was allocated it was, unfortunately, not used. However, the money is available now if we can get the Board of Health to go ahead with the schemes, as I hope we will be able to do before the financial year is out.
Deputy Broderick and some other Deputies were interested in the question of arbitration. It is true, so far as I am aware, that there is only one arbitrator, but it does not lie with my Department to appoint an arbitrator or arbitrators. I do not know what Department is concerned. I do not think it is the Department of Finance. I took the matter up some months ago, and I am pressing whatever Department is concerned in the matter. I think it is a committee composed of some of the judges that appoints the arbitrators. I have taken the matter up, at any rate, some two or three months ago, and I am pressing to get additional help in that regard. Deputy Mulcahy asked about the Housing Board, and Deputy Cosgrave was also interested in it. It is not the intention to issue any report of the Housing Board. The Board has reported to me on various subjects which I referred to them for investigation. They were for along time engaged in investigating the supply of Irish material. Deputy Belton talked a lot and some others, I think, talked at considerable length about the difficulties in regard to slates. The Board were on that subject for a considerable time and, I think, did get an improved supply of Irish-manufactured slates, although it is not exactly their job to look after the supply of materials. However, they did take it up at my request, and the supply of Irish slates is improved. During the last week or so I was told that there are supplies of Irish slates in some of the larger towns in the South. From one town where there was a large supply of the smaller sized slates I had an application a fortnight ago from, I think, 34 people for leave to use foreign-manufactured slates, because the slates available were of a smaller size, and they were not in the habit of using them. I have given instructions that wherever Irish-manufactured materials are to be had at the proper price no permits for foreign goods should be given. That policy is being carried out. The reports of the Housing Board are made to the Minister for his guidance and information, and there is no intention of publishing them.
There was a sum of £700,000 withheld from the local authorities out of the funded arrears during the 12 months ending, I think, December, 1933. £700,000 to which I referred at one period. I think in reply to General Mulcahy, represented arrears within the funded period, that is, three years. During the course of the discussion on the Land Bill, 1933, the Acting-Minister for Lands, Deputy Aiken, promised that that money would be refunded to the local authorities. It is proposed, at any rate, to refund £300,000 of that to the local authorities, and the balance I hope to secure in time to come from the Minister for Finance. There are other moneys that were withheld over a former period. Deputy Mulcahy mentioned one figure; I think it was £1,900,000. I do not know whether that is the correct figure or not. Some of that money comes in every now and then. There are always some of those arrears being collected, and as they are collected they are credited to the local authorities.