Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 21 Jun 1934

Vol. 53 No. 7

In Committee on Finance. - Vote 19—Tariff Commission.

Minister for Finance (Mr. MacEntee)

I move:—

Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £3,152 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íochta an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníochta i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1935, chun Tuarastail agus Costaisí Choimisiún na nDleacht (Uimh. 40 de 1926 agus Uimh. 31 de 1930), agus Choimisiún na Marcanna Earraí Ceannaíochta (Uimh. 48 de 1931).

That a sum not exceeding £3,152 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1935, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Tariff Commission (No. 40 of 1926 and No. 31 of 1930), and of the Merchandise Marks Commission (No. 48 of 1931).

Mr. Cosgrave

Has the Minister nothing to say about the Vote? Surely we should hear some explanation about it?

Mr. MacEntee

I think that the Vote itself is sufficient explanation.

Mr. Cosgrave

What about the Tariff Commission? Could not the Minister explain the work they are at?

Mr. MacEntee

I presume that the Deputy is familiar with the purpose for which the Tariff Commission was established. It was to investigate applications for tariffs which were referred to it by the Executive Council and which were made under the provisions of the original Tariff Commission Act, 1926, and the subsequent Tariff Commission (Amendment) Act, 1930. The applications made under the Tariff Commission Act, 1926, related to the following commodities: margarine, rosaries, flour, down quilts, fish barrels, woollen and worsted tissues, which have been fully investigated by the Commission and about which printed reports, containing the fullest information, have been published. Subsequent to the passage of the Tariff Commission (Amendment) Act, 1930, the following matters were referred to the Tariff Commission: oats, bacon, hams and other pig products. With regard to these commodities also a full investigation has been made by the Commission and printed reports have been published. In addition to these, the Commission have also been asked to inquire into the present position in this country concerning the printing and binding of prayer books, vegetable and animal oils and compounds thereof, and also casks and barrels. Investigations in these matters are pending at present.

In addition to acting as a Tariff Commission, the members also act as a Commission under the Merchandise Marks Act, 1931, and in that connection the Commission has considered, I think, during the present year, the question of the application, for restriction on sale and importation orders, made by the National Amalgamated Furnishing Trades Association, in relation to wooden furniture. The Commission have reported in this case in favour of imported goods of the description in question being required to bear an indication of origin. Applications are at present under examination with regard to books, playing cards and manilla tags. There were also applications lodged in respect of men's and boys' ready-made clothing and overcoats, suits, hats and caps and the component parts thereof, and also rosaries. These applications have been withdrawn since by the applicants in April, 1934, and June, 1933, respectively. I do not think there is any further information necessary.

Mr. Cosgrave

Are the books, playing cards and manilla tags the only matters before them at present?

Mr. MacEntee

These are before them as the Merchandise Marks Commission.

Mr. Cosgrave

What is before them as a Tariff Commission?

Mr. MacEntee

Prayer books, vegetable and animal oils and compounds thereof, and casks and barrels. A complicated investigation is in progress with regard to prayer books.

Mr. Cosgrave

When is it proposed to be finished with that?

Mr. MacEntee

I am not in a position to say what the present position is in relation to vegetable and animal oils. That investigation is proceeding, as also an investigation into casks and barrels. In connection with the matter of prayer books, however, public sittings have been held and visits made by the Commission to factories on the Continent (France, Belgium and Germany) and in London. The Deputy is aware that a very substantial business in the printing and binding of prayer books exists in Belgium, and it would be necessary for the Commission to visit that country, and also to visit Germany and France. The report, I understand, is now in course of preparation, and I think in connection with the present matter preliminary statutory notices have been issued. As to the other matters, relating to edible oils, statutory notices have been issued, and statements received from parties interested in the application.

Mr. Cosgrave

Is the Minister in a position to say if there will be work during the whole of the year for the Tariff Commission?

Mr. MacEntee

I have not any doubt about it. The investigation into vegetable animal oils and compounds thereof promises to be a most complicated one.

Mr. Lynch

When did the Tariff Commission issue its last report? Some years ago we got reports after fairly long intervals. These were circulated to Deputies. I do not remember getting a report during the last two years. The last one I got was a report on fish barrels. There appears to be another question dealing with casks and barrels before the Commission now.

Mr. MacEntee

That is a wider investigation.

Mr. Lynch

Has any report been issued during the last year?

Mr. MacEntee

Yes. The Deputy will remember a report dealing with bacon, hams and other pig products, which was most comprehensive and very valuable.

Mr. Lynch

Was that circulated to Deputies?

Mr. MacEntee

It was.

Mr. Belton

Is it the function of the Tariff Commission to investigate every tariff imposed, either before it is imposed or afterwards?

Mr. MacEntee

No, only such matters as may be referred to it by the Executive Council for investigation.

Mr. Belton

Is any expert advice sought or acted upon by the Executive Council in the imposition of tariffs? What is the meaning of a tariff commission if it is not used in connection with tariffs, as to their justification or as to their operation when imposed?

Mr. MacEntee

The fact of the matter is, the Deputy is under a misapprehension if he thinks that the Tariff Commission is not used. It is used. The nature of the investigations which the Tariff Commission is bound by statute to undertake, in relation to any matter that may be referred to it, is so comprehensive that, as Deputy Lynch indicated, a great deal of time necessarily elapses before investigations are completed and the report available. In present circumstances we have had, in order to push ahead with our industrial policy, to forego reference to the Tariff Commission, but, in regard to tariffs which the Government decided to impose, we are fully satisfied before they are brought to this House that they are practicable, and are in the interests of the community at large. In that connection may I remind the Deputy that in the Finance Bill which went through the Committee Stage this week, there was included for consideration by the House a number of impositions of new tariffs, as well as modifications, and there was virtually, in relation to the number of commodities included in the Schedule, no discussion upon them? The House accepted it that tariffs were necessary, desirable and beneficial.

Mr. Belton

The fact that they went through the House without discussion does not prove that the economic effects will be perfect. Here is a whole-time body called the Tariff Commission. It should have some function, either to consider a tariff before its imposition or to watch over its operation when imposed.

Mr. MacEntee

That is not the function of the Tariff Commission.

Mr. Belton

What function has it? That is what I am trying to get at. What are we to vote £4,000 for? If the Commission has not that function, then if it has other functions it should be christened by its proper name. If we call it a Tariff Commission, and if its function is not to deal with tariffs, either before they are applied or afterwards, how is it a Tariff Commission? The Minister stated that in order to carry out the Government's industrial policy they could not wait on the Tariff Commission. There is an implication in that, that if the Tariff Commission could investigate and report they would be called in to advise the Government. If the Government want to put over a policy that the Tariff Commission was not able to keep up with, why is there not post examination of big tariffs that very largely affect the community? If there is no need of that what need is there for a Tariff Commission at all? Either it has a use or it has not. It is either advisable to investigate tariffs or it is not. If it is advisable to do so, and if the other exigencies cannot wait, why not have an investigation after a tariff is imposed to see the economic effects? Some day the Minister and his Government will find the economic ill-effects of tariffs imposed by them, which, if scientifically imposed, and in different volume, would be of decided advantage to the country, but which throttle the country when incompetently imposed, by having an overdose of tariffs pushed on it without any investigation as to the effects of these tariffs operating around the whole economic field. I do not see what is the use of this Commission. I do not know what it does in connection with merchandise marks. Let it be a Merchandise Marks Commission if it has to deal with that question. If you have a Tariff Commission use it. If you do not want to use it, scrap it and save £4,000. You can find some other use for it. We get Orders here frequently, giving a list of duties that have been imposed. They are in operation in a few days. After six months they can be reviewed by the Dáil. No expert advice is brought to bear on them. We have it now from the Minister that the Commission does not investigate these tariffs. The Minister talked about fish barrels, as if it mattered very much comparatively whether they were made here or not. Other tariffs have been imposed more for revenue purposes, I am afraid, than to help industry. If the Government's policy is thoroughly industrial, then the Tariff Commission should investigate all tariffs, either before or after application, not from the revenue point of view, but purely from the industrial point of view. If that is not done, I think it is waste of money going on with this Tariff Commission, when it has really no function for tariffs.

Vote put and agreed to.