Deputy T. J. O'Donovan informed me within the last hour that he intended to raise on the adjournment matters arising out of Questions Nos. 4 and 5 on yesterday's Order Paper. The Chair is waiving technicalities on this occasion and is allowing the Deputy to raise these matters.
Adjournment Debate. - County Cork Arrests.
I regret, Sir, that I was unable to inform you at an earlier stage that it was my intention to raise these matters to-night, but I thought it was understood yesterday that I was to be at liberty to do so. I put down these questions on yesterday's Order Paper, asking the Minister for Justice why Mr. J.J. Coakley, of Manch, Ballineen, and Mr. Geoffrey Wycherley, of Roscarbery, were arrested and detained in the Civic Guard station and were subsequently released without any charge being brought against them. I hoped to get some expression of regret from the Minister for the action of the Guards in arresting these decent, respectable men. I hoped also that the Minister, before making a move such as has been made in County Cork, would have tried to ascertain the characters of the people whom he intended to arrest—these hard-working, industrious, respectable, law-abiding citizens, who have always tried to uphold law and order in this State and who, I am sure, will always endeavour to do the same while they are alive. They have never done anything that would bring the blush of shame to their faces. They have never stood behind fences to throw a sod or stone at their neighbours. I think the least the Minister might do would be to inquire into the characters of these people and their standing in the country before placing them under arrest. Evidently, he did not worry about that.
The trouble apparently arose out of the fact that as a result of the policy carried out by his Government, these farmers in County Cork had summoned a meeting of the Cork Farmers Association, a convention, to be held in Cork on January 21st, to discuss their grievances and to try, if possible, to devise ways and means by which they might be able to get over their difficulties. That was a perfectly lawful action for them to take. On the night of the 29th or the morning of the 30th January, we had wholesale arrests throughout County Cork, particularly in West Cork. We had the houses of those decent men raided, searched and ransacked from top to bottom, and afterwards these men were arrested and detained in the barracks. Why was that done? I had hoped that the Minister, in replying to my question, would say why it was done, but he did not do so. Why was it done? Was it because he was afraid that the Cork Farmers' Association was going to shake the confidence of the people of County Cork and the rest of the State in his Government? I take it that that must be the reason they carried out this act of terrorism—to try to terrorise the people of County Cork and to prevent their attending that meeting which they had a right to attend, to discuss and debate their grievances and to try to remedy them, if possible. Well, that terrorism did not prevent the farmers from meeting in convention. They met and discussed their situation. Soon after we had the Guards again coming around making further arrests and further detentions, while still no charges were preferred against these men. Why is that done?
These men met and declared, and they were not afraid to say it, that this Government was the cause of all their grievances at the moment, that the Government had deprived them of their markets, of their means of livelihood, of giving their children an opportunity of being educated, properly clad and properly fed. Because they dared to say that to the Government, because they dared to say that they had a perfect right to meet in public meeting and to assert that right, and dared to tell the Government what they had done through their economic policy, their houses were broken into and they were lodged in jail, and some in military prisons as well. If we are going to have a repetition of these actions, if men are to be taken from their homes and families—even if their business is not worth minding at the moment, at the same time they have an interest in it and they would like to be there— I say it is most unjust, unfair and uncalled for. It is most unfair for the Minister for Justice to send out orders of this sort and have these decent people arrested. As I said before, they are law-abiding men, men who have always upheld the honour and the dignity of this State, who have always tried to observe the law. When we contrast the action of the Minister in arresting these law-abiding men and allowing others who have gone around our constituencies threatening people——
That's the rub; that is the point.
Within the last two months in West Cork, men have gone around threatening and beating people. They pulled a man and his wife out of bed, they threatened them and having bruised and battered them went their way and they are still at large. When terrorism of that kind goes unpunished it is very hard on decent law-abiding people who only want to go about their own business.
They are afraid to deal with them and you should know it.
That is the reason I raised this question in the hope that, perhaps, commonsense may prevail in Government circles in the long run and that these arrests may be discontinued, so that honest, hard-working people may be allowed to do their ordinary business along with their families instead of being taken away and lodged in jail. I do not want to make any reference to those whose cases are at present under consideration by the Military Tribunal but I think it was most unfair of the Irish Press on last Monday, while these cases were still sub judice, to publish a statement to the effect that an Irish Press representative was informed that the principal charge to be preferred against these men was that they were members of an unlawful association for the promotion of non-payment of rates. There is no such thing as an association for the non-payment of rates. We have heard that matter discussed before. The Party to which I belong have denied it, and I deny it. There is no such thing as a campaign for the non-payment of rates and it was most unfair of the Irish Press to come out with such a statement while these men are awaiting their trial.
What does the Attorney-General say to that?
I hope the Attorney-General will pull up the Irish Press or any other paper which makes a statement such as that. I only want to bring this matter forward in the hope that public opinion will be brought to bear on the Government and on the responsible Minister so that commonsense may prevail in the future and that we shall have no further arrests of this kind in West Cork. It is the blackguard and gun bully that we want arrested and put in their proper places so that decent law-abiding men will be allowed to carry on their work in peace.
Before the Minister replies, I should like to join in the public protest made by Deputy O'Donovan against arrests of this kind. I have only referred to two people in the question and I will not go outside that limit. Otherwise I would have a very strong indictment against the way generally in which the law is being enforced against men of the type of Mr. J.J. Coakley and Mr. Geoffrey Wycherley, of Roscarberry.
And Mr. Brooke Brasier.
I am confining my remarks to the gentlemen whose cases are mentioned. In regard to one of them it is a very serious question whether there was deliberation on the part of the Guards, having regard to the fact that Mr. Wycherley was rearrested and was to be tried on a charge of which he was served with notice.
There has been a great straining of the law with regard to these two men. They were taken out, at what I would call unreasonable hours, from their homes and taken long distances under very difficult circumstances for men of mature years, as it was very dangerous to their health. There was no necessity for that whatever. These men live quietly, and can always be found in their homes when wanted for interrogation on any point. They are always prepared to account for their movements. In spite of that Mr. Coakley was taken from Manch, Ballineen, over the mountains to Clonakilty, and interrogated there in a rough manner. The whole tendency of police activities in that quarter at present is purely political, and is causing grave dissatisfaction and grave ill-feeling and unrest amongst law abiding citizens of that portion of the community, where the people are all law abiding and follow peaceful avocations and are known to be most respectable. I think it is a shame that the police force, particularly the new plain clothes force, should be used to go to such men at unreasonable hours and to interrogate them in an unreasonable way. I will not contrast that with the way other crimes went on in this district for which no one was brought to justice, nor even arrested on suspicion. One man who was murderously assaulted in the middle of the night identified his assailants.
The Deputy is proceeding to do what he said he would refrain from doing.
I will leave it at that. I want to protest against the arrest of these men and against police activities being directed in a strong political form against men who have suffered very severely owing to Government policy.
Dr. Ryan
I should like to mention first what happened in these two cases. Mr. Coakley and Mr. Wycherly were suspected of having committed offences mentioned in the Appendix to Article 2 (a) of the Constitution, and were arrested and detained by the police by virtue of the powers conferred on them by Part 3 (a) of Article 2A of the Constitution.
Who suspected them?
Dr. Ryan
The police, of course.
The ordinary Guards?
The new Black and Tans.
Dr. Ryan
The police were exercising their statutory and constitutional powers and did not exceed these powers in any way.
That is what the Black and Tans used to say.
Order, order.
Dr. Ryan
They did not exceed these powers in any way. They exercised the constitutional authority given them by this Parliament, and I think Deputy Anthony was one of those who gave it——
Yes, but you are not exercising it.
Dr. Ryan
——and for which he was kicked out of his Party.
Two Deputies have spoken on this matter without interruption. The Minister will be allowed to speak without interruption.
Dr. Ryan
It is rather difficult to deal with the cases of men awaiting trial. These men are awaiting trial before the Military Tribunal on the charge of being members of an unlawful association, and I suppose it is not fair to say more than that about the cases at present. The two men, Wycherley and Coakley, were suspected also of being members of that same association. As a matter of fact, in one case circulars were found which emanated from this association. If Deputy O'Donovan complains of their houses being ransacked and searched, from top to bottom, the police were justified in carrying out searches, because they found circulars that they suspected would be found in this house if a search was carried out.
The other, too, was suspected of being a member of the standing committee of that association. The two men, on being interrogated, denied any connection whatever with that movement. They disclaimed any connection with it, and the police decided, for the moment at any rate, not to proceed with the case. Undoubtedly, the police would have been quite justified in sending these men before the Military Tribunal to let it decide whether they were guilty of an offence or not. Instead of that the police exercised a certain amount of leniency. Whether that action was taken by the police, from considerations of the good character which Deputy O'Donovan has mentioned these men have borne, whether it was due to mistaken feelings of pity for them or their families; or due, perhaps, to the hope that being first offenders, if dealt with leniently they might not come under the notice of the police again, at any rate they are dealt with leniently and the police action which has now been referred to, shows that such leniency was not appreciated by Deputy O'Donovan or those associated with him here. Such ingratitude, of course, is always shown where kindness is done, when it is not justified. I do not think I have anything else to say with regard to these cases. These were cases in which the police were absolutely justified in carrying out the searches. I do not know if Deputy O'Neill is right in saying that the searches were carried out in a rough manner. If they were, it was wrong.
I did not intend the implication to be put on my remarks that there was any physical roughness.
Dr. Ryan
Then it is all right. Any such conduct as that would not be right. If the charge that the Deputy makes is that the police in that area are administering justice in a political way, that is altogether wrong and should not be allowed by the police authorities. Deputy O'Donovan stated that these men were arrested because they attended a meeting of farmers in Cork. It was not for that reason. They are really being charged with being members of an association which I think was dissolved at that meeting and then renamed.
They were prevented attending the meeting.
Dr. Ryan
No. I think the Annuitants' Defence League was the name of the Association. At any rate that is the association they were charged with being members of.
The fact is you know nothing about it.
The Dáil adjourned at 10.50 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Wednesday, March 6, 1935.