Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 11 Apr 1935

Vol. 55 No. 17

Committee on Finance. - Vote No. 10—Office of Public Works.

Minister for Agriculture (Dr. Ryan)

I move:

Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £66,353 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1936, chun Tuarastail agus Costaisí Oifig na nOibreacha Puiblí. (1 agus 2 Will. 4, c. 33, a. 5 agus 6; 5 agus 6 Vict., c. 89, a. 1 agus 2; 9 agus 10 Vict.; c. 86, a. 2, 7 agus 9, etc.).

That a sum not exceeding £66,353 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1936, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Office of Public Works. (1 and 2 Will. 4, c. 33, ss. 5 and 6; 5 and 6 Vict., c. 89, ss. 1 and 2; 9 and 10 Vict., c. 85, ss. 2, 7 and 9, etc.).

May I take it that I may move the three Votes—Vote 10, Vote 11 and Vote 69—together.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Votes must be taken separately.

Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Finance (Mr. Flinn)

They are all for the same office.

General Mulcahy

Is the Minister proposing that Votes 10 and 11 be discussed together?

Mr. Flinn

Yes.

An Ceann Comhairle

There is a difficulty in such a course owing to the fact that there is a motion that sub-head B of Vote 11 be reduced by £100.

Mr. Flinn

Vote 69 can be discussed with Vote 11 and inevitably will be.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is proposed to take Votes 10 and 11 together.

Mr. Flinn

Votes 10, 11 and 69 go together. Vote 69 will be discussed with Vote 11 whatever we do. If the Votes are taken separately it will only mean doing it all over again.

An Ceann Comhairle

There is a motion that Vote No. 11 be reduced by £100 in respect of sub-head B. On that motion a question will presumably be put. No item in that Vote subsequent to sub-head B can be discussed until sub-head B is disposed of. In discussing estimates the Committee may not jump backwards and forwards from one item to another.

General Mulcahy

I should like to ask this—after the amendment to reduce Vote 11 (B) by £100 is proposed can there be a discussion dealing with the particular point that will be raised, or will other matters dealing with the various Votes to which the Parliamentary Secretary has referred be discussed?

An Ceann Comhairle

The discussion on that motion to reduce will be confined to that sub-head of Vote 11.

General Mulcahy

As soon as these votes have been put before us can I move the amendment standing in my name with regard to sub-head (B) and will that discussion be taken up and finished?

Mr. MacDermot

I would not suggest that these should be taken together, because it is possible that we might want to vote against No. 11 and not want to vote against No. 69. I think, Sir, that we have got on very well in previous years without taking these together. As regards No. 10, that probably can go through without discussion, but there is no reason why there should not be discussion on Nos. 11 and 69.

Mr. Flinn

If we take No. 10 as agreed, we can then proceed to No. 11. The only point I am putting is that it is not a question of the Vote. Nos. 10 and 11, customarily, have been taken together. The Deputy may take it that that is a fact. The difficulty, however, is that in latter years, the Board of Works have been responsible for the administration of the Relief Vote, and therefore, on the Board of Works Vote, a discussion on the whole of the Relief Vote takes place, and we are going to be put in the awkward position that, after we have dealt with the whole of the discussion on No. 11, then we have to move the material for that discussion. Technically, we could not give you the figures for the distribution of last year or for next year, while, if you take the discussion on the three Votes together, you can divide separately. My suggestion is that if you take No. 10 as an agreed Vote now, that would save the trouble to begin with.

General Mulcahy

I suggest that it is a very bad precedent, and certainly a nice commentary on the state of affairs in the country, if the Office of Public Works has to be permanently linked in discussion to the Relief Vote. I suggest that, while Nos. 10 and 11 might be taken together in the way the Parliamentary Secretary suggests, by passing No. 10, the relief schemes are certainly a matter that ought to be open to separate discussion.

Mr. Flinn

I am only trying to meet the convenience of the House. If it could be agreed that we would not discuss the Relief Vote on No. 11, that would suit me.

General Mulcahy

I think that would be better.

Mr. Flinn

My suggestion is that we take No. 10 now as an agreed Vote, and No. 11 as one on which we discuss, first the particular motion which Deputy Mulcahy has, and then the Vote itself. We can then take 69 as a separate matter in which we can deal with both the administration and the distribution of relief.

Mr. Brennan

There is one matter that I want to raise which has connection, I think, with the accountancy branch of the Board of Works, but whether it arises on No. 10 or No. 11 I do not know.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy may discuss it on No. 11. The simplest course to pursue would be that suggested by the Parliamentary Secretary; that is, to take No. 10 as agreed and not to discuss relief works on No. 11. No. 11 would proceed as far as sub-head B, and then a general discussion on the remaining items of that Vote.

Vote No. 10 put and agreed to.