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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 28 Apr 1936

Vol. 61 No. 12

Committee on Finance. - Vote 72—Widows' and Orphans' Pensions.

I move:—

Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £166,630 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31 adh lá de Mhárta, 1937, chun a íoctha isteach sa Chuntas Suncála Pinsean (Act um Pinsin do Bhaintreacha agus do Dhílleachtaithe, 1935 (Uimh. 29 de 1935), Alt 42 (2)).

That a sum not exceeding £166,630 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st March, 1937, for payment to the Pensions Investment Account (Widows' and Orphans' Pensions Act. 1935 (No. 29 of 1935), Section 42 (2)).

In connection with this Estimate, I would like to know from the Minister what progress has been made for dealing with the cases that have been referred to the referee. I am referring to cases where a certain view has been taken officially as to claimants' means. I know that a fairly large number of such cases have been referred to the referee, and I would like to know what progress has been made in dealing with them, having regard all the time to, what the Minister himself must recognise, its manifest imperfections. This represents the only complaint that I know of in connection with the administration of the Act. I am not putting it forward as a complaint because I know that the preparations necessary to bring the Act into operation involved a pretty big undertaking. It involved the creation of a lot of new machinery, and I admit that it must take some time to get the scheme going smoothly.

I would like to say, by way of contrast to what I have said in connection with another Vote, that the officials dealing with this service seem to me to be extremely prompt and efficient in supplying information in connection with claims. As regards cases that have come to my knowledge, the investigation officers through the country seem to me to be not only courteous but sympathetic in dealing with them. We must, of course, all the time bear in mind that the benefits of the Act are only apparent in a very limited way due to the extraordinary restrictions surrounding it. There is the fact that thousands of people through the country who would be regarded as very deserving cases are, for the moment, excluded from its benefits. The provision for non-contributory pensions is, in individual cases, small; but that is not the main source of complaint as much as that thousands of people are, for one reason or another, excluded from the benefits of the Act. Therefore, in a large number of cases hardship is felt. One frequently finds cases turning up where a bread-winner was dead before National Health Insurance became a fact in this country.

I realise that I am not permitted on this Vote to advocate changes in the law, but I would hope that the Minister himself recognises that the last word has not been said in this House on pensions for widows and orphans, and that he will lose no opportunity that presents itself to introduce amending legislation to improve the position. I am glad to be able to say that the benefits of this Act, limited and all as they are, are extremely welcome to the people concerned. There is a feeling in the country which, I am sure, will not be falsified that this Act, imperfect and all as it is, is only the first step in making more ample provision for widows and orphans.

What the Deputy has just said about this Act, which was introduced and put through both Houses of the Oireachtas by me last year as being only a first step in bringing into operation a scheme for widows' and orphans' pensions in this country is I think correct. I hope that in the days to come amending legislation will be brought in that will embrace at different times and in ever-increasing number all deserving cases of widows and orphans in the total number of those who will become pensionable. The Deputy and other members of the House may be interested to have the following details with regard to the operation of this measure. The total number of claims received up to 17th April, 1936, was 25,457 of which 24,738 were widows' claims and 719 were orphans. Claims by the widows and orphans of men who died on or after the second appointed day, namely, the 6th January, 1936, number 381. The total number of claims in which pensions have been awarded up to the 17th April, 1936, is 10,422 and the rejected claims (including claims withdrawn) amount to 10,366, giving a total of 20,788 decided cases out of 25,457 received. Of the rejected claims for widows' pensions which number 10,046, 3,828 have been rejected on the grounds of age. It will be remembered that the Act provided that non-contributory pensions are not payable to widows who have not attained the age of 60 unless they have at least one child under 14 years of age or a child over 14 and under 16 who is attending school or is mentally or physically incapacitated.

In 3,281 other cases it has not been established that the late husband of the widow was insured under the National Health Insurance Acts at date of death. This condition is essential except in cases where the late husband was the occupier of a small holding not exceeding £8 in valuation. Claims had also to be rejected where the valuation of the holding exceeded £8, or where the widow was not resident on the holding. The number of rejections in "smallholder" claims is 1,551. In 1,175 cases, where the widow's net weekly means exceeded the maximum rate of pension payable, the claims had also to be rejected.

The undecided claims number about 4,670, of which about 2,300 are in the hands of investigation officers for local verification of claimants' statements and for assessment of means. Approximately 2,370 cases are under examination or awaiting replies to queries. The next point is one which the Deputy specially mentioned. About 2,230 claimants have appealed against the decisions on their claims, and arrangements are now being completed by which the appeals will be decided by referees appointed under the provisions of the Act.

The Minister for Finance has already appointed a panel of referees. The necessary regulations have been made, and the consideration of these cases will be taken up at once.

Vote put and agreed to.
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