It is quite impossible to do such a thing. It is not desirable that we should think of it on that basis. What I have tried to do and what the staff that is there are trying to do—and are doing with reasonable success—is to apply commercial methods in the handling of the goods, in the manufacture of the goods, in the preparation of the right type of goods for the market, and in satisfying buyers with the service. I think if anyone goes to those who are now buying goods from the Gaeltacht he will find a reasonable amount of approval, considering the difficulties that are inherent in the business. We are trying to give better deliveries, we are trying to make goods that people want and our designs are good. Deputy Dockrell mentioned some criticism of designs. I am satisfied that our designs are reasonably good, in fact very good at present. That is due to the good fortune we had in securing a technician, who was released from Posts and Telegraphs, for the purpose of attending to this production and design work.
The Deputy mentioned the problem of the real homespun as against hand-woven tweed. Nothing would please me better than to know that we could put homespuns, direct from the home-spinner, on the market. The trend of the trade, and the demand in the trade, do not allow that expansion or development very readily, and there are reasons behind it. The home-spinner who spins and weaves a web of cloth in his own home may do a very beautiful job on 20, 30, 40 or 50 yards, but it is almost impossible for that spinner to reproduce exactly the particular shade that he had in his previous piece. That is the big obstacle in this particular trade, because we sell very often ten or 20 pieces of cloth. The buyer puts a particular shade in his pattern bunch, and he wants exactly the shade in the pattern bunch. That is one of the difficulties we have got to get over.
Now, there is another inheritance in that pattern, not a Departmental inheritance at all, but an inheritance from the way that business was handled by the commercial traders. We do not want to compete at all with commercial traders. If they are prepared to enter into its commercial manufacture and to handle this business like carrageen, I would prefer to see them doing it. The truth of the matter must be faced and it is that those people did produce goods for the foreign market, particularly, which gave Donegal homespuns a "black eye" that they have not got over yet. I myself saw, and was offered, 50,000 yards of Donegal hand-woven stuff in New York which had been imported at a cost of something like two dollars and 35 cents. I was offered that at one dollar a yard, and I would not have taken a gift of it. Now the stuff, piece by piece, was perhaps not bad, but commercially it was impossible. I mention this merely to indicate the difficulty of the homespuns as distinct from the hand-woven. We would probably get five, six or seven times the amount of work if we were able to sell an equal quantity of homespuns to what we are selling in hand-woven.
The estimate of some people in Ardara is that it would have nine times the wage content in spinning. I am not a technician in that matter, but I am certain that it would be very much more than the weaving cost. The position is that we could not sell it and that we cannot do it. What we are doing at present is co-operating with the hand spinners to see if we can assist them by helping them out and making advances to individuals trying to sell their stuff and giving them the benefit of the experience of the technical staff that we have got. We want to see that developed. But I would like to point out to those who are interested some of the realities that are to be faced— some difficulties that they will be facing or that we will be facing. There is, of course, no difficulty in dealing with both. There is a type of trade that can be served by hand-woven, and let us get all we can of that. There is a type of trade than can be served by the homespuns, and let us get all we can of that. That is the Department's attitude about it.
Now, I would like to refer to the remarks made by Deputy Mrs. Concannon, and to express my regret that it is not possible to get this lady in the West established. There are Civil Service difficulties in the way that, I am sure, Deputy Mrs. Concannon would appreciate if she were aware of them. We cannot establish a precedent for picking out one servant of the State when so many other unestablished servants are there. If a special case can be made, I have made it already, and I certainly would feel very happy if this particular lady could be established, for right back in history her services have been unique.
Deputy McMenamin raised several points. The one thing that amazed me—I was intrigued intellectually by the Deputy's speech, if I may put it so—was to know just what he meant. Practically all his questions were already answered in my initial statement. The Deputy was sitting in the House when I made that statement, and I think he heard it. In view of that I have been wondering what the technique was. He raised the question of kelp. He asked if we had investigated the possibilities of the uses of kelp in fertilisers, and if we were exploring other avenues. In my opening statement I made it perfectly clear that all these experiments were going on, and that some of them had been made with regard to the possibilities of kelp for fertilising purposes. I indicated that I saw little or no hope, and frankly I see little or no hope. I do not know whether the Deputy heard what I said—whether I spoke distinctly or not—or whether the technique really was that the Deputy's statement could be cut out of the Official Report and published without any reference to what the Minister said. It is interesting, but it is a matter for the Deputy himself. I do not want to labour it by saying anything more about it. To sum up, I suggest that the Deputy should read my initial statement when the Official Report comes in. I felt, when he was talking last night, that I would consider the possibility of getting my friend and associate, Mr. Rutherford Mayne, to come round here, and if he did, I imagine that his next play would not be "Bridgehead" but "Bonehead."
The Deputy referred to socks that we were selling for 1/- a pair. That is quite true. We sold 200 dozen, not at 9/-, but at 8/6 per dozen, and we were glad to get rid of them. They were part of the old stock—I referred to it last year—which I prefer to forget about for many reasons. The stocks have, in the main, almost entirely been cleaned out and cleared out.
The Deputy referred to carrageen, and said that it had been bought or ordered from France. He is quite right about that. He already has all the information on that from the Public Accounts Committee. On the 1st August, 1934, the Department accepted an order from an English firm through its agent in Great Britain at £30 per ton delivered. Owing to the bad weather conditions of the season, resulting in the ruin of large quantities of the crop, the Department found itself short of supplies to the extent of 20 tons. To enable it to fulfil the contract, French carrageen to the extent of 20 tons was bought. The Deputy already had all that information. That was in 1934.
I have already referred to the possibilities of the uses of kelp. I am rather worried about it because we estimate, as Deputies know, buying 2,500 tons at £3 a ton. I agree with Deputy Dillon that that is not a fair price if one considers the labour and hardship involved in getting it. But we are prepared to buy it to keep the industry alive, in the hope that better times will come for kelp, and I hope the House will generally agree with that. My information at the moment is that the amount on the sub-head will not be needed this year: that there will not be that quantity of kelp collected. However, we are in a position to buy all that is available and we are in a position, I am glad to say, to buy more than all the carrageen that we get.
Deputy McMenamin referred to carrageen as if we were falling back on it. That is not the case. The only danger, and I think it is only fair that the House should know that there is this danger, to carrageen is that if the French go off the gold standard the position with regard to carrageen would be changed, because their prices would come down, and our prices would probably have to come down too. However, there is no good in meeting the devil before you see him; but, at any rate, the position with regard to carrageen would be considerably altered. The actual amount purchased from our appointee was 204 tons. The amount paid was £3,171. The amount paid last year was £2,138. The average price was 2/0½. In certain parts of the country the price was very high, while in other parts it was not quite so high, but that was the average, and it is the best price that has been available since 1932. The Deputy can rest satisfied that if everything were as well as arrageen then we would all be quite happy.
Deputy McMenamin also referred to wastage on storage. If he had been paying the slightest attention to my Estimate he would have seen that we have disposed of all the kelp, and have got out of the ruinous loss in which we had been involved in regard to storage. I am sorry that I was not able to follow Deputy Micheál Og McFadden's speech. It struck me what some of us were missing by not being able to speak like that, and to follow all his statement. However, I got a brief analysis of his statement, and, of course, like everybody else in the House I agree with all he said. It is a problem for all of us. It is a problem for the whole country, and I might mention in passing that it was one of the determining factors in deciding the Minister for Industry and Commerce in bringing in his unemployment assistance. At least some effort is being made to look after them, and I often wonder what happened to them in the past when that was not available. I have not very much more to say. Deputy Dillon raised the question of housing. I have an analysis of the housing position and I can give the figures with regard to last year's work. The number of applications was 1,219; the number of sanctions was 1,175; amount of grants, £45,212; amount of loans, £10,527; total of grants and loans, £55,739; amounts paid, that is against grants, £43,798, or as I said last night almost £44,000; amount of loans paid, £12,274; total grants and loans paid, £56,073; grants charged to Vote, £43,764; number of cases completed, 743.
The Deputy referred to the hardship that was being imposed by the Department on account of confining those grants and loans to the Fíor Gaeltacht. I dealt pretty fully with that last year, and I explained that there was relatively little difference—important I admit to people in the Gaeltacht—between what was available through the Gaeltacht and was available through the Department of Local Government. It is true that the Gaeltacht service is of much more benefit, in this way—that we do a good deal of free surveying, and the goods are available at contract prices which are dependent on large scale contracts being placed with the traders in the area. Deputy Dillon made various references to my statements in connection with factories in the Gaeltacht. The Deputy I am sure would prefer to see many more; I certainly would like to see manufacturers going there. He mentioned my reference last year to the possibility of silk being manufactured in the Gaeltacht, and I am glad to say that a friend of mine who has very much less capital than Deputy Dillon has been courageous enough to go ahead with the project. In my opinion it is very problematical as to how it will work out, but he is a man of energy and a man who has great faith in the people of the Gaeltacht. He is heart and soul with them, although reared in the City of Belfast, and I hope in a very few weeks or months to see quite a substantial factory operating in the old building at Crolly.
It is entirely due to this man's energy and push and the co-operation of the Department of Industry and Commerce that he has been able to do this, but the Deputy knows as we all know that with average manufacturers it is almost impossible to drive them into that area. Even last year I put it to the Deputy that he was a representative for that county, containing a very large stretch of the Gaeltacht, and that it would be desirable from every point of view if he would take his courage in his hands, and, as a very large merchant in the West, see if he could not find some line that he could start there. I admit that it is not perhaps in his line of business, but it is always a test of real sincerity to back your opinion to some extent. I do not know whether I ought to leave it at that and sit down. I feel, however, that one or two references made by Deputy Dillon might be worth perhaps a word or two. He referred to various things, and I must confess that his references amused me. It is funny the reactions that I have with regard to the Deputy. He spoke about my sanctimonious approach yesterday evening, and I can assure him that I did not feel the slightest bit sanctimonious on the previous evening. I suppose we cannot be responsible for our general makeup. I was glad that at last he was beginning to appreciate the Minister for Industry and Commerce, when he commended his splendid, breezy, buccaneering method. Unfortunately, neither Deputy Dillon nor I are gifted to compete at all with my good friend the Minister for Industry and Commerce. I envy him his breeziness. I do not know in what sense the Deputy means buccaneering.
