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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 23 Jun 1936

Vol. 63 No. 1

In Committee on Finance. - Vote 38—Circuit Court

I move:—

Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £34,011 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1937, chun Tuarastail agus Liúntaisí agus Costaisí Oifigeach Cúirte Cuarda, Leas-Bhreithiún gCuarda agus Udarásanna Clárathachta Aitiúla áirithe, Costaisí Taistil Breithiún gCuarda; agus costaisí Ath-fhéachainte Liostaí Vótálaithe agus Coisteoirí (Uimh. 27 de 1926, etc.).

That a sum not exceeding £34,011 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1937, for the Salaries, Allowances and Expenses of Circuit Court Officers, Deputy Circuit Judges, and certain Local Registering Authorities, the Travelling Expenses of Circuit Judges; and the expenses of Revision of Voters and Jurors Lists (No. 27 of 1926, etc.).

The gross sum asked for is £83,521 as against which we expect to receive £32,510 by way of Appropriations-in-Aid, making the net demand £51,011. Normally this Vote alters very little from year to year, but during the year now in review and for a couple of years past it has been swollen by two factors, namely, (1) the necessity of providing for salary for a Deputy Judge for the entire year to replace Judge O'Connor, who is whole-time engaged on other public duties. This costs about £1,350 and we have asked for £2,600 in all under sub-head A (6) to cover the possibility of having to provide deputies for other judges, illness, etc.; (2) the cost of the increased staff and travelling expenses of county registrars in executing warrants under Section 28 of the Land Act, 1933 —that is in the case of annuity defaulters. This latter service, however, pays for itself (quite apart from the sum of £750,000 which it has actually recovered) in fees received. It adds anything from £10,000 to £20,000 to both sides of the account— credit and debit—and just about balances out. We all hope that it is a transient phenomenon and that the provision which we have thought it prudent to make this year will not be necessary, in fact.

I wonder could the Minister give us some information with regard to the Circuit Court in the same way as we got information about the High Court?

Mr. Boland

I can give you that information now. I was asked a question by Deputy Davin on the 26th of March last as to the number of civil cases listed and awaiting hearing in the Dublin Circuit Court, and whether a number of such cases had been listed for a considerable time. My reply was: "The number of civil cases listed and awaiting hearing in the Dublin Circuit Court is 136." The particulars are as follows:—

Notice of trial served for January, 1936 session

47

Notice of trial served for March, 1936 session

83

JURY CASES.

Notice of trial served for March, 1935 session

2

Notice of trial for November, 1935 session

2

Notice of trial for January, 1936 session

1

Notice of trial for March, 1936 session

1

That makes a total of 136. I may add that some of the oldest cases mentioned above appeared in the judges' list for hearing some months ago, but on the application of the parties to the actions, who were not ready to proceed, were taken out of the list and re-entered for a later date. The position, as indicated by these statistics, appears to be fairly satisfactory and no complaints appear to have been made recently.

These civil bills originated right through the country this year as opposed to last year?

Mr. Boland

I believe that there are no very considerable arrears, anyway.

It is not a question of arrears, but I want to get at what is the volume of legal work falling to be done by the Circuit Courts as opposed to what fell to be done last year or the year before. What are the numbers of the civil bills originating in the Circuit Courts of the Free State in the year we are in, as opposed to last year?

Mr. Boland

There, again, I am not in a position to give exact numbers, but I am informed that there are no very notable variations.

I would be glad to hear that there is no considerable variation, but I wonder is that phrase not to be taken with a reservation in regard to the Damage to Property Act. Again, the same tendency I have mentioned as observable, from statistics supplied to me in answer to a question, in the High Court is to be observed in the Circuit Courts. As far as the ordinary civil bills are concerned for all items other than in respect of the Damage to Property Act, the work was down by more than one-third. It was, in fact, I think, only raised to the point of showing a decrease as little as one-third because of the impact of the Damage to Property Act in the last couple of years. Of course, that Act gave rise to a big number of cases. They were very good for statistical purposes, as they seemed to swell the legal work. They were, of course, a bad type of case from a good many angles. It was the method of rewarding people for what at one time were considered criminal activities. Apart from that, it is obviously a passing phase. There was, as a matter of fact, a time limit for these cases, which was extended by a judicial decision. Then the Legislature recognised that fact and, I think, extended it a little further. However, the number of cases that still remain to be heard must be very small. If, notwithstanding the disappearance of the type of case under that Act, the ordinary work of the Circuit Courts is at the same point as before, it will mean that the ordinary work has gone up. I very much doubt if that is the case. I would assume that the Department, in procuring these statistics, would have recognised, as anybody must, that the cases for determination in regard to the property that was destroyed at the time of the civil war must be regarded as abnormal and not likely to occur beyond the second or third sittings after the time when the Act came into operation. I presume that they excluded that item from their consideration. If that is so, then the situation is this, that the year we are in shows very little difference from the year before, but that the year before distinctly showed a drop of over 30 per cent. in the ordinary matters falling to be litigated under the authority of the Circuit Courts, whether ordinarily within the jurisdiction of the Circuit Courts or whether they were cases taken by the consent of the parties. Of course, it has to be added to the statistics given with regard to the High Court as showing that legal work of the civil type is definitely on the decline.

That is interesting to observe at a time when this House is engaged in increasing the number of judges, the argument for the increase of judges being based on the fact, as it must be based on the fact, that the judges were having too much to do, that arrears were mounting up as far as the Circuit Courts were concerned. That phrase was always unjustifiable. There never was any great volume of arrears in the Circuit Court anywhere found to be existing, and I think the majority of the cases found to be of that type were the cases to which the Acting-Minister referred, where the parties were not ready to go on, and those were responsible for the delay. There is far too much comment through the country on delay with regard to the hearing of cases. Dublin, of course, naturally gets a great many more cases than any other part of the country. A very considerable percentage of all the cases tried in the Circuit Courts are tried before the Dublin Circuit Court judges.

There is, from time to time, a considerable pressure of work in the Dublin Circuit Court. Nobody can say that the Dublin Circuit Court judges do not get sufficient work to do. When you swing to the other extreme and say that whatever they get to do they leave a lot in arrears, that is a phrase which is only used by people who have no knowledge of the statistical information provided year by year, and the comment would not be made if the situation was properly understood.

I am not sure that I got the full purport of the remark of the Minister in regard to the moneys expended for the provision of assistants or deputies for the Circuit Court judges. It is clearly recognised that Judge O'Connor has been transferred temporarily to other work. If one is to hark to the comments made by people who expect to be the recipients of money under that other work that he is doing, they expect that he will be occupied for at least three years on that. That may be pessimism. At any rate, that comment is being made. I understood the Minister to say that he is adding something in addition to the amount required for the deputy for Judge O'Connor. That would mean that the Minister is looking forward to some other similar situation arising with regard to another judge or it may be that he is making provision for illness.

Mr. Boland

Yes, illness and things of that kind.

Then, so to speak, the only compulsory absentee from his proper work we have to contemplate in the year that we are in is Judge O'Connor. The other matter is a remarkable commentary on the situation which has arisen, that is the second item.

Mr. Boland

I hope the Deputy will not introduce the economic war on this Vote.

I do not want to introduce the economic war. The Minister has done so. Let us draw a discreet silence over the matter, with this comment, that annuity defaulters have put an increased cost on the Courts Vote from £10,000 to £20,000 in the year. Does that increased cost fall eventually to be borne by the State? In other words, by sending a sufficient number of bailiffs and people of that type, whom the Acting Minister used to deride and scorn, by relying on them and their efforts the Minister can get in not merely the annuities in default but the extra £10,000 or £20,000 which is the cost of collection. That, of course, in a situation in which we were to have the land not buzzing with bailiffs, but overflowing with milk and honey, is a very serious change.

Vote put and agreed to.
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