Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 4 Feb 1937

Vol. 65 No. 2

In Committee on Finance. Supplementary Estimates. - Vote 71—Repayment of Dáil Eireann External Loans.

Minister for Finance (Mr. MacEntee)

I move:

Go ndeontar suim Bhreise ná raghaidh thar £1,000 chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1937, alos caiteachais a bhaineann le hIasachtaí Coigríche Dháil Eireann d'Aisíoc.

That a Supplementary sum not exceeding £1,000 be granted to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1937, for Expenditure in connection with the Repayment of the Dáil Eireann External Loans.

Mr. Dillon

I take it that the Minister will be in a position to-day to tell us what stage has been reached in the repayment of those loans. The first question I should like to put is: Has the Irish Press banked their share of the loan yet?

An Ceann Comhairle

This House sanctioned the repayment of the External Loans. Machinery was set up to deal with the matter. This House is not part of the machinery. It is not open to the House to question the applications for repayment made by bondholders.

Mr. Dillon

May I make this submission, that this £1,000 is required for the purpose of drawing the attention of persons who are entitled to repayment under the provisions of the Repayment Act, and who have not adverted to the fact that they are invited to apply? We are advertising for them.

Mr. MacEntee

The Deputy is completely in error.

Mr. Dillon

There is an Estimate for printing and advertising, and presumably the only purpose is to draw the attention of all bondholders to the fact that we are holding ourselves ready to redeem these bonds. I make the statement that the Irish Press is coyly waiting in Burgh Quay to know if they are entitled to get a large sum of money under the assigned bonds in their possession, and I ask the Minister if it is necessary to induce these coy creatures to come forward when we are spending almost £1,000 in advertising.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy must not single out individual bondholders.

Mr. Dillon

Is the Minister entitled to advertise in Zanzibar for bondholders when we know there are none there? Is the Minister entitled to single out the Irish Press for advertising?

Mr. MacEntee

May I interrupt the Deputy on a point of order?

Mr. Dillon

The Minister may not interrupt on a point of order, and I will not give way. I want to raise the question of the strict relationship of that part reserved for advertising and I think we are entitled to do so. I also ask in what areas are there bondholders who are entitled to repayment and who have not claimed. Naturally we will not object to money for advertising in areas where there are bondholders who have not claimed. We want to pay all, but we object to providing money for advertising in districts where bondholders not only claimed but clamorously claimed, and one such area is the City of Dublin. You, Sir, must be the final judge to say whether so-and-so claimed, but with great respect, I do not see why we should advertise in Zanzibar. Naturally if there was a claimant there who did not claim, we might approve of advertising there.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy realises that that line of argument is not in order.

Mr. Dillon

I freely admit that the purpose of my argument is to refresh the public memory and to direct attention again to the participation——

An Ceann Comhairle

Which is all irrelevant.

Mr. MacEntee

I wish, Sir, to put this point of order to you. The Dáil Eireann Loans and Funds Act of 1936 fixed the last date for receiving applications as June, 1936. Any advertisement we published in the Press was prior to 30th June, 1936. The Standing Order says:—

"In the discussion of Supplementary Estimates the debate shall be confined to items constituting the same ..."

The amount now required is £1,000, and it is not for advertising. It does represent an increase in the sub-head of the Vote, which covers not merely money required for advertising but salaries, wages and expenses of staff. This £1,000 does not provide for or include anything for advertising, but it does provide an amount that it is expected will be required to enable repayment to be made by March 31st, 1937, which is the date fixed by statute.

Mr. Dillon

Is that a point of order?

Mr. MacEntee

That is a point of order, and I suggest that any statement made in debate, as to whether the money is required for advertising and as to whom the applicants were, or anything else except that which is strictly related to the provision which was being made for the staff and in order to enable repayments to be made by the fixed statutory date, is not in order.

Mr. Dillon

Is that a point of order?

An Ceann Comhairle

The point of order raised was that as the statutory time for applications for payment of bonds has passed, the question of further applications does not arise.

Mr. Dillon

If the Chair heard that point of order that ends the matter. May I draw attention to this, that the Minister has informed the Chair that there is no provision in the Estimate for advertising.

Mr. MacEntee

No part of this sum.

Mr. Dillon

I now refer the Chair and the House to the explanatory note on the face of the Estimate at the instance of the Minister "Additional sum required for salaries, wages and expenses of staff, office accommodation, stationery and printing, advertising, postage, etc." That is the Minister's own explanatory note, and now he gets up and informs the House officially that there is no part of this sum scheduled for advertising. Which are we to believe? Is it the explanatory note or his ex parte statement? He says he has no knowledge of the Estimate, and that anyone who wants an answer must put down a question. I submit, with the explanatory note before us, that there is provision for advertising and that the Minister has deliberately tried to mislead the House. However, I recognise that I am restricted in what I say to what is fairly relevant, If the Chair, having heard both sides, is of the opinion that there can be no reference to bondholders, despite the fact that there is provision for advertising, in deference to the Chair, I am prepared to accept that view.

Mr. Fitzgerald

If I understood you aright, you, Sir, stated that the statutory date for the repayment of the loans—

An Ceann Comhairle

The date for applying for repayment.

Mr. Fitzgerald

I did not hear the Minister say that.

Mr. MacEntee

June, 1936, was the date and repayment must be complete before March, 1937.

Question put and agreed to.