Vol. 69 No. 5
I move:—
That in accordance with Standing Order No. 109, a select committee to be designated "The Committee of Public Accounts," be appointed; and that the members of the committee be nominated by the Committee of Selection;
That the committee have power to send for persons, papers and records.
I want to ask a question in connection with this motion, regarding procedure. I think there should be some formal official determination in this matter. A Committee of Public Accounts was appointed by the last Dáil, of which I was the chairman. I urged that Committee of Public Accounts to meet formally and adjourn because I foresaw that the general election would interrupt our deliberations, and that we would not have time to report. The committee would not adjourn, and we brought a number of public officials before us, took a great deal of evidence, and spent a great deal of time. Then, of course, the general election came upon us and the committee was discharged, and now we are going to set up a new committee. What is the duty of the new Public Accounts Committee? Can they summon the same witnesses before them, or are they entitled to accept the evidence which was already given? This difficulty arises, and it is something that should be determined by the House. There will be new members on this committee who were not on the last committee. Certain of the members of the old committee were defeated at the general election. Is it right for a new member, coming on to the new committee, to accept the evidence that was tendered before the old committee? He has not heard the evidence, or he has not taken part in the questioning of the officials. He is quite entitled to say: "I will not take that evidence; I want to go through all the evidence again." I think we should have some guidance in this matter, or some idea as to what the wishes of the House in general are in regard to that matter.
Just now the House is asked simply to sanction the appointment of this committee.
No; that the committee have power to send for persons, papers and records.
That is the usual practice. When that committee meets, the Deputy will have an opportunity of raising the matter. The House is not now in a position to consider it. I suggest that the matter be postponed until the committee meets.
In any event, there are precedents in this matter.
I merely make my respectful submission. If you, Sir, suggest that the matter should be postponed I am quite prepared to fall in with that view, but the question is to what occasion it should be postponed. There is one occasion, once every 12 months, on which the matter can be raised, and no other—the occasion of the resolution to appoint the committee. I think we ought to determine hereafter that where it is perfectly clear that that Committee of Public Accounts cannot finish its work owing to the imminence of a general election that committee should meet formally —it is required by Statute to be appointed—and adjourn until after the general election. I make that point now because I want to establish a precedent in order to avoid the wasting of public officials' time. The committee ought to have adjourned over the general election, and this difficulty would never have arisen. I want to have the sense of the House secured to that view, in order to ensure that if this happens again the Public Accounts Committee will adjourn until after the general election, so that the new Public Accounts Committee can examine officials and do its work in an orderly way.
That is ridiculous.
What is the Minister for Finance twittering about?
He says the Deputy is talking nonsense.
He is talking as if there was not a Public Accounts Committee until he became chairman.
I suggest that when the committee meets, the Deputy if the difficulty is still there, should move to have it referred to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
I am prepared to accept that.
That is a pity, because Deputy Dillon cannot make another speech.
The Minister for Finance does not understand what he is talking about.
I move:—
That the Appropriation Accounts, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor-General for the year ended 31st March, 1936, and the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee of Public Accounts on the said Report, be referred to the Committee of Public Accounts for examination and report.
