I move that Estimates Nos. 1 to 71 as set out be reported.
Committee on Finance. - Estimates for Public Services—Report.
Is this the proper Stage on which to raise a matter that occurred on an Estimate?
Estimates in detail may not be debated now.
It is not in detail, but it is in relation to a Vote.
The Deputy will get an opportunity on the Finance Bill.
A statement was made here by Deputy Kelly, when the House was discussing the Estimate for the Department of Industry and Commerce. It appears in the Official Debates of July 7th, column 485, and is as follows:—
"Then we heard the Roscrea factory being brought up again. There was another factory which got money from the Government, and I read their balance sheet the other day. The statement occurs in the balance sheet that they are not using the money given to them by the Government for the purposes for which it was given to them. I had that balance sheet in my pocket during the last election, in case anyone might stand up and accuse Deputy Briscoe of acting in any way dishonourable. If so, I would have something to say about it. He had to go through the election just as I had. We were colleagues in that campaign, and I was fortified with that document...."
I want to know, if the Minister for Finance paid that amount of money, what the Minister for Agriculture would have to say to insinuations like that. The actual facts are that we put up a factory costing £18,500 for the Government. We had an agreement with the Government that they were to pay us a certain amount of compensation. I will not say how much we lost during the first two years carrying on their business. That money was paid to us by agreement. It was our money. I want to know if the insinuations made, which, to a certain extent, were joined in by the Minister for Industry and Commerce, are about our money. It was our money and we could throw it into the Suir if we liked. It was given to us for no purpose but as compensation and for the equipment we put up for the Government. Deputy Kelly said that he took the document around in his pocket. I think it was a fitting occupation for Deputy Kelly to act as "botheen" boy to Deputy Barrabas.
There is no Deputy of that name in this House.
If there is not, I had better substitute it and use the name Deputy Kelly used—Deputy Briscoe. This is the type of thing we meet with here. The Taoiseach appealed to us to co-operate. How could people co-operate. When we meet fifth like that day after day we cannot co-operate. If we were met in a decent atmosphere we could co-operate, but we will not co-operate when we feel that we are soiled by the touch of some of these people.
Mr. Kelly
Is it in order to answer the Deputy?
The Deputy said he was raising a point on something that was said.
Mr. Kelly
I would give him his answer very quickly.
The Deputy said he was rising to reply to something Deputy Kelly had said but that it was not a matter of detail. The Deputy must be brief.
Mr. Kelly
Deputy Gorey produced a lot of documents here.
This balance sheet.
Mr. Kelly
I will come to the balance sheet.
Briefly.
Mr. Kelly
The Deputy came here the other day with documents and used them to try to prove fraud and corruption against the Minister and his Department in connection with the slate quarry at Carrick-on-Suir. When I saw what was being done all that day and the next day, showing Deputies documents, when reference was made to Roscrea meat factory I referred to the other meat factory and I said, as far as I can remember—I have not the documents now—that money given for a specific purpose to that factory— canning—was not used for it.
The Deputy is merely a liar.
The Deputy must withdraw that expression.
I withdraw the expression "liar", but what the Deputy has said was a deliberate untruth.
The Deputy will withdraw that expression, also.
I withdraw the word "deliberate".
Mr. Kelly
In my recollection the money was given for canning, and it was said the money was not used for that purpose but for some other purpose.
Will the Deputy——
I will not hear the Deputy further.
Question put and agreed to.