It is proposed to take business in the following order, Nos. 1 to 5, and then Nos. 26 to 29. Public Business will not be interrupted at 9 o'clock.
Order of Business.
Can the Tánaiste say when it is proposed to take items Nos. 27 and 28? Item No. 28 suggests the revocation of an order made by the Minister for Supplies.
The Sugar Order.
I do not think that motion will be reached.
Will the Government not give time?
Not to-day.
Seeing that it concerns Government action.
There will be an opportunity during the debate on the Budget.
How will we be able to discuss a motion with regard to the Minister for Supplies on a purely taxation measure, namely the Budget?
Ask the Ceann Comhairle.
I am asking the Ceann Comhairle if that will be possible under the Rules of the House.
If a Deputy rises to speak after the Minister the Chair will consider whether the matter is relevant or not. Rulings are not hypothetical.
Is it not a fact that when orders were made by the authority of the House, an undertaking was given by the Government that an opportunity would be provided to discuss propositions to annul such orders? Is the Minister for Finance now going back on that undertaking?
The Deputy understands that the order referred to is a subsidiary order.
I suggest that in such matters an opportunity should be given. If Deputies desire to discuss any matter that could be raised on emergency orders time should be freely and liberally given.
It will not be given to-day.
Due to the action of the Government when the House was out of Session an order was made, and if item No. 28 is taken in its ordinary place, it will be a long time before the motion can come up for discussion under ordinary circumstances. The motion deals with an order made by the Minister for Supplies under the Emergency Powers Act, and I claim that we should get an assurance from the Tánaiste that, if we desire to discuss a matter which was the subject of an order made under the Emergency Powers Act, facilities would be given to do so. Now we are in this position that, although the Minister used the Emergency Powers Act, we are denied the opportunity to discuss it because of a Private Deputy's motion that was on the Order Paper previously. If the Government wants to take Private Deputies' time the House cannot deal with an order which has produced a nation wide protest or with the attitude of the Minister.
I suggest that the proposition of the Labour Party should be postponed until the Budget Statement has been heard, and afterwards the other motion will come on for discussion one way or another, or a proper occasion and time be provided.
The order has attracted such an amount of attention and protest that while the Tánaiste may laugh at the extra 1½d. on sugar, the people in the country are not laughing. Independent of any ambiguous statement, the Government should be anxious to give an opportunity to the House once a month to discuss Government policy in the fullest manner possible on that precise issue alone. It is one thing to discuss a matter of that kind and to discuss a Budget which the Government says is necessary to carry on the business of the country. It is another thing to discuss the conduct of a Minister not being responsible, unless he has some explanation for this particular increase in the price of sugar. I suggest the Government should be anxious and willing to discuss that matter.
The House has not said that it will not give time, but there must be some order about the business. There is an important matter to be discussed now. Why should the House not discuss that and let the other come on in the proper time?
Do I understand that after the Government business time will be given to discuss the other matter this week or next week?
I ask the Deputy to wait and see.
We heard of "wait and see" before with disastrous consequences. Is that the kind of indefinite answer that is given?
Is this in order?
I am discussing the Order of Business, and I suggest that the House should know where it is, and what opportunity it will get to discuss the extraordinary rise that has taken place in the price of sugar with the connivance of the Minister for Supplies. That is a complete and separate matter from any question of taxation. Apparently the Government does not want that.
Will the Tánaiste be able to tell us to-morrow if time will be allocated for a discussion of item No. 28?
Items Nos. 27 and 28 go together.
Yes. While the Government might find it necessary to increase the taxation of sugar as a Budgetary operation, the Minister for Supplies, speaking on 18th October said:—
"We do not anticipate any immediate change in the price of sugar."
The Deputy in asking a question about fixing the Order of Business should not reply to what the Minister said a month ago.
I am pointing out that a discussion of the price of sugar is entirely different from the motion, and I suggest that, in view of the complete change of front on the part of the Minister for Supplies, we ought to have an opportunity of dealing with that matter instead of on the question of using sugar as a means of raising revenue.
I can only say that when the Budget discussion has been disposed of, then the other matter can be brought forward, if the Deputy wants further information.
I understand that the order of procedure on the Budget is that the general resolution is proposed after the Minister for Finance has spoken and is then adjourned. There ought to be time to-day to deal with the other matter after the Minister for Finance has spoken, and to have a debate on items Nos. 27 and 28. I formally asked for time to-day.
The usual procedure is that the Minister for Finance makes his Budget statement, and if the Leaders of the two Opposition Parties desire to make brief statements they may do so. The resolutions are then considered and a general debate takes place to-morrow or some other day on the final General resolution.
That leaves plenty of time for discussion of the other motions, and I ask that they be placed on the Order of Business to-day after the Budget statement.
Will the Taoiseach not answer?
That would be against all established procedure.
Other matters have been discussed on Budget days.
I suggest that this matter might be settled by the Whips in the usual way, outside the House.
I suggest that the public should know as much as possible about the unwillingness of the Government to face the situation, and I suggest that this is the only place to do it.
The Deputy is only misrepresenting the Government. This is Party politics. A lot of humbug.