Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 28 Feb 1940

Vol. 78 No. 14

Public Business. - Control of Imports (Quota No. 37) (Amendment) Order, 1939—Motion.

Minister for Industry and Commerce (Mr. MacEntee)

I move:—

That Dáil Eireann hereby approves of control of Imports (Quota No. 37) (Amendment) Order, 1939.

The amended quota order provides for certain exemptions from the terms of the original order. According to the amendment which it is now sought to make, hats which are of a value of 12/9 each or more, hats made of straw and partly manufactured hats and caps made of material other than felt, will be removed from the scope of the original quota order and accordingly will be freely imported subject, of course, to the payment of such duty as they may carry. In addition to that, opportunity is taken in this quota order to amend, in certain minor respects, the application of the original order so as to exclude from the prohibition, hats and caps which are imported in such circumstances that their importation does not conflict with the purpose for which the order was made. For example, the following classes will be exempt hereafter from quota control:—

(a) hats which are shown to the satisfaction of the Revenue Commissioners to be intended solely for use for scientific or medical purposes;

(b) hats which are imported in such circumstances that the Revenue Commissioners are satisfied that they are being sent as gifts from persons outside Ireland to persons resident in Ireland;

(c) hats which are imported as part of the personal effects of persons who have permanently transferred their residence to this country;

(d) hats or caps which are imported as wedding gifts for a person not ordinarily resident in this country and who intends to reside here permanently;

(e) hats which are imported as part of the personal estate of a person who has died outside Ireland by a person who has become entitled to them under the will or intestacy of the deceased person;

(f) hats which are imported in connection with the arrangement or maintenance of an Atlantic air service using or involving the use of an airport in Ireland;

(g) hats which are imported solely for the purpose of an exhibition or demonstration or any similar purpose and which are not intended to be sold or offered for sale in Ireland;

(h) hats which are imported for further manufacture and subsequent re-exportation;

(i) hats which are imported temporarily only.

These minor exemptions will be made effective by this order and they will make the administration of the quota less irksome both to the revenue authorities and other parties interested.

Mr. Dillon

Will the Minister take occasion to mention the rates of duty levied on those hats which are excluded from the quota?

Mr. MacEntee

Hats and caps made wholly or partly of leather or leather substitutes carry a rate of duty of 60 per cent. Hats and caps which are, in the opinion of the Revenue Commissioners, suitable for wear by men or boys, or in either case are top hats, or hats made wholly of woven or woollen tissue, are subject to a duty of 60 per cent. Hats not chargeable under either of these heads carry a duty of 25 per cent.

Mr. Dillon

What about millinery hats?

Mr. MacEntee

They are included amongst those which carry a duty of 25 per cent.

Mr. Dillon

As I understand this order, it means now that any millinery hat costing 12/9 or more at the moment of import is exempted from the quota and can be freely imported subject to the payment of 25 per cent. duty?

Mr. MacEntee

Quite.

Mr. Dillon

It means that this poisonous instrument of the quota is now being used only to control the millinery supplies of the least prosperous sections of the community. I know that this is a subject which does not engage the sympathy of many Deputies in this House, but I shall not cease from pointing out that this quota is a double-edged weapon which not only inconveniences women who purchase millinery but, what is very much more serious, has wrought great injury to a number of decent people who are making a living out of the sale of millinery in this country. I have in my mind at the present moment a very gallant woman, a widow with young children, who took up her husband's work of dealing in millinery and managed to keep her family afloat as a result of her exertions. The effect of these quotas has been gravely to imperil her livelihood, not only through the restrictions that were imposed upon supplies of merchandise which she could get, but because this rotten quota order, as every quota order is rotten, immediately gave rise to the establishment within this State of a ring, consisting of the protected manufacturer in Galway and a limited number of wholesale millinery dealers.

An Ceann Comhairle

The House is confined to discussion of two points contained in this quota order. The general question of tariffs and quotas is not relevant.

Mr. Dillon

I am asking, Sir, that import be extended not only to the hats which cost 12/9 but also to the hats which cost ? at the moment of import, because I say the failure to widen the exemption provided for in this quota order is permitting the growth of rings in this country which are designed not only——

An Ceann Comhairle

That raises the general question of quotas to which the Deputy may not refer.

Mr. Dillon

Am I not entitled to make this case: that the millinery ring in this country will be required to make available supplies of millinery produced behind this quota to every bona-fide wholesale millinery dealer? At the present moment there are bona-fide wholesale dealers in millinery who are being refused supplies by the ring. The ring says: "We will not let you get in. We know you have been in the habit of dealing in millinery in the past. You have got squeezed out by the quota and we will not allow you get supplies of home-manufactured hats. Therefore, we are going to push you exclusively into the millinery trade at 12s. 9d. and over that price, because you cannot, by paying any duty bring in supplies of the cheaper article." I say that is the greatest injustice. I do not believe this House ever meant the quota to be used for that purpose, and I am saying to the Minister that the only method he has for remedying that is to say to these people: "Either you are going to give supplies freely and readily to any bona-fide wholesale milliners in this country or I am going to widen the exemption under this quota and make it possible to get supplies elsewhere." God knows if we cannot produce for this country with a protection of 60 per cent. we ought to shut up shop and get out. If a duty of 60 per cent. has to be reinforced by quotas, factories depending on such a system would be much better dispensed with.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is now going into the general questions.

Mr. Dillon

I put it to the Minister that he ought to insist on adequate supplies of millinery being made available to those dealing in it by firms protected by this disgusting order, or else inform these people that the quota system would be completely changed in future. I object strongly to exemption designed to accommodate only those who are in a position to buy hats costing more than 12/9, while it is considered expedient to inform the common people when buying their hats that unless they pay this price they will not be allowed to get them in. Why should those who can afford to pay a guinea for hats be allowed to get them from any part of the world, because they have the extra money, while those who can only pay 4/11 are restrained from getting a hat from anywhere but where the Minister thinks they should get it, whether they are prepared to pay the duty or not? I do not believe the people realise the differentiation or, to my mind, the malignant and undesirable class distinction of that kind that is being made in orders of this sort. Who would justify saying that the rich in our community were to be allowed the fullest liberty to get their supplies where they liked, and to turn to the poor in the community and say: "You are to be the exploited persons, and you are to be compelled to deal with these people whether you like it or not"? That is not justice. It does not matter whether supplies of hats are affected by the quotas or not, you have no right to say to the rich: "We will give you a wide variety and permit you to have facilities and conveniences that we do not think it necessary to give to the poor."

That is not just. It is not fair, and it ought not to be done. I sympathise with the present Minister for Industry and Commerce, because I think he has had thrust upon him the whole of this disgusting machinery, but he should not allow it to be used for whatever rotten purpose it is turned to. It should not be used for the purpose of differentiation between rich and poor. Perhaps it is that he has not that in mind, and that he is simply travelling part of the way towards abolishing the quota system and substituting for it a flexible system of tariffs. If that is true I have no desire to say more than this, that when there is a differentiation between the rich and the poor, he will agree with me that the effect of this type of regulation is to create misgivings and possible misunderstandings; to create resentment on the part of those whose supplies are controlled while their better-off neighbours are not controlled. In the light of that I suggest that he should apply himself to the task not only of altering the quota orders by modification such as I suggest, but to abolish them, lock, stock and barrel.

Mr. MacEntee

I think when the Deputy considers the suggestion he has made to me he will appreciate that it would be quite impossible in existing circumstances to do what he suggests. Quite frankly, I am not in love with quotas. There is a good deal to be said against them, but there is also something to be said for them. At the moment, the main thing which has to be said for them is that there is a number of industries established in this country which, possibly, could not exist unless they had quota protection. Take the industry which we are considering. Experience has shown that no amount of tariff protection is likely to enable industries of that sort to exist and maintain themselves in this country.

Mr. Dillon

Then they ought to be run by the State or not run at all. They ought to be run for the benefit of the community and not individuals.

Mr. MacEntee

Perhaps if we were starting anew there might be something to be said for that. But that is not the position. People have been committed to that industry. It has been established, and now affords a considerable amount of employment in a centre where employment is very desirable, and where this industry, if it were to cease to-morrow, would be very much missed. There are no less that 250 people working for firm concerned, and of these 250 hands, 100 are men and boys. Therefore, the Deputy will appreciate that it would be serious to take a decision which might involve the shutting down of this industry, and the disemployment of these 250 hands. The Deputy asked me what is the justification for the quota on hats of a certain price. The answer is that it has been found—at least I am given to understand—that the situation is such, that most people agree that the factory in Galway is able, reasonably, to satisfy the demand which exists here for hats below a certain value, and that if any persons wish to import a hat over that value, then they have to pay a corresponding amount of duty which is not inconsiderable.

A person who wishes to buy a hat of greater value than 12/9 does not get it in at 12/9. If a person wishes to wear a hat of that sort she has to pay to the Exchequer 3/2¼d. for the privilege. That is, to some extent, a deterrent which operates to prevent people bringing in hats not covered by the quota. If class distinction exists, as the Deputy alleges, then those who want to get the better class article have to pay for the privilege, and when they pay, the amount does not go into the pockets of the hat manufacturers, or the employees of the hat factory, but goes to the Exchequer to be used for the general purposes of the State, so that there is some contribution to the general good to be derived out of the price which persons pay for the privilege of wearing a hat value for more than 12/9. On the other side of the scale we have the employment that is given. Looking at the situation I should say frankly that if I could make trade freer in regard to this matter, I should do so, but, against my own predeliction and desire, I have to remember that I might be jeopardising the employment of even one or two of some of these 250 people. I do not think in the present circumstances of the time I could afford to face up to that. I am prepared to meet Deputy Dillon to this extent. I say that these quota orders were never intended to foster or develop the growth of rings among wholesalers or to create any vested interests in this country. Inside the quotas there should be the fairest and freest trade possible. It will be a matter for very serious consideration—if use is made of these quotas to build up rings and restrain trade—whether we should continue them at all or not. If quota orders are utilised to build up vested interests of the kind that Deputy Dillon suggests, as far I am concerned I will set my face steadfastly against that, and I shall endeavour, within general limitations of the quotas, to ensure that every individual in the country has the right to engage in any occupation that may exist, and to exercise his right, so far as he can, to earn a living freely inside this country.

Question put and agreed to.