Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 30 May 1940

Vol. 80 No. 11

Committee on Finance. - Vote 7—Old Age Pensions.

Mr. Derrig

I move:—

Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £2,366,000 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1941, chun íoctha Pinsean Sean-Aoise (8 Edw. 7, c. 40; 1 agus 2 Geo. 5, c. 16; 9 agus 10 Geo. 5, c. 102; Uimh. 19 de 1924, Uimh. 1 de 1928; Uimh. 18 de 1932 agus Uimh. 26 de 1938); chun Pinsean do dhaill Uimh. 18 de 1932 agus Uimh. 26 de 1938); agus chun Costaisí Riaracháin áirithe bhaineann leo san.

That a sum not exceeding £2,366,000 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1941, for the payment of Old Age Pensions (8 Edw. 7, c. 40; 1 and 2 Geo. 5, c. 16; 9 and 10 Geo. 5, c. 102; No. 19 of 1924; No. 1 of 1928; No. 18 of 1932 and No. 26 of 1938); for Pensions to blind persons (No. 18 of 1932 and No. 26 of 1938); and for certain Administrative Expenses in connection therewith.

Mr. Hickey

With regard to the question of applying the means test, in regard to old age pensions, I wish to ask the Parliamentary Secretary whether or not the local investigation officer has any discretion in the matter. I will give a concrete case to bring home what I want to point out. I know a man who will be 81 years of age next November. He has been drawing the old age pension for the past two or three years. He does two nights a week watching for his old employer, for whom he was working for 53 or 54 years. He watches a ship which comes into port. He has to go out at 5 o'clock in the evening and remain until 8 o'clock. He gets 7/6 each night. It was discovered that he was doing that work and he has received notice during the past week that his pension is reduced by 2/- as from the 19th May last. This man's wife is 68 years of age. I am just wondering whether the investigation officer is too conscientious in a matter such as that. I do not think that it is expected that a man should be so rigid in applying the means test. I have written to the Department and to the investigation officer and I am told that they cannot do anything in the matter. I am quite satisfied that the Minister or anybody else does not expect that test to be applied too rigidly in the case of a man who is 81 years of age, who has to give up two nights in the week to support himself and his wife.

Mr. Flinn

One may feel a great deal of sympathy with what the Deputy says, but the consciences of the Revenue Commissioners are regulated by statute.

Mr. Hickey

I know they are.

Mr. Flinn

And they have no means of altering that. It is an old saying that hard cases make bad law and any attempt to vary the law to meet individuals' special cases of that kind produces infinitely greater difficulty and hardship than the actual alleviation which is given in a particular case. The Revenue Commissioners in this case, are simply carrying out a duty from which they have no escape.

Mr. Hickey

Is there any need for any investigation officer to be so, shall I say, conscientious, putting himself within the strict letter of the law?

Mr. Flinn

The law is so and they must obey it.

Mr. Hickey

I appeal to the Parliamentary Secretary that something should be done to end that rigid means test.

Vote put and agreed to.