Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 27 Nov 1940

Vol. 81 No. 5

Additional Standing Order.

Parliamentary Secretary to the Taoiseach (Mr. Smith)

I move:—

That the following be adopted as a Standing Order of Dáil Eireann:—

80 A—The time allowed for the debate on a motion proposed by a private member, other than a motion relating to any stage of a Bill, shall not exceed a period of three hours in the aggregate. At the expiration of the said period, if the proceedings have not previously been concluded, the Ceann Comhairle shall put forthwith the question or questions necessary to bring to a conclusion the proceedings on the motion and on any amendment thereto.

Mr. Dillon

I wish to raise a small point on this motion. Provision is to be made for bringing to an end a debate on a private Deputy's motion after the lapse of a certain period. I can find no provision in the proposed Standing Order whereby the Deputy who moved the motion will be afforded a minimum time to reply at the end of the debate. We should make provision for contingencies and, in a case of this kind, things might be so arranged that I would be talked out so that neither I nor anybody on my behalf could make an answer to the case made. That does not seem to me to be a good arrangement. The purpose of discussion of a motion is to let any Deputy, however humble, make his case, hear the opposition that is put up against it, make his reply and then leave the matter to the House. According to this proposal, a member may be the victim of the machine used against him to snuff him out. That does not seem to me to be fair.

An Ceann Comhairle

It was unanimously agreed by the Committee on Procedure and Privileges that ten minutes should be allowed the mover of a motion in which to reply. That decision seemed to be rather petty to include in a Standing Order. I think it might be left to the good sense of the House, and the Chair would count on the co-operation of the House in securing that the mover of the motion would be allowed ten minutes. That would be better, in my opinion, than to include so minute a detail in a Standing Order of Dáil Eireann.

Mr. Dillon

I share the view of the Chair on the question of the dignity of the House, but when everybody is in good humour we do not require safeguards. It is when people get hot about the collar that safeguards are required. I can see my learned colleagues on the other side getting hot under the collar and whipping in the lame, the halt and the blind so as to keep me from replying. If there were a provision in the Standing Order, I could tell them to sit down and give me my ten minutes.

An Ceann Comhairle

The mover would have the active assistance of the Chair in securing his ten minutes.

Mr. Dillon

I am thinking of a private Deputy who is fighting his corner single-handed. Deputies belonging to a Party do not, perhaps, require the same safeguards. I think that some safeguard is necessary in the case of a private Deputy. Would the Chair have power to force members to allow me my ten minutes?

An Ceann Comhairle

Technically, possibly no.

Mr. Dillon

Technically, I think the Chair should have that power. I do not believe in trusting to the good will of mine enemy. I prefer to be able to make him shut up and give me my ten minutes, whether I am sitting on these benches or on any other benches. I think that the proposed Standing Order should be altered to incorporate that.

Mr. MacEntee

Perhaps the Committee on Procedure and Privileges would reconsider it.

General Mulcahy

The decision of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges was unanimous regarding the whole matter, and it never occurred to members that there would be a difficulty in the House in asserting the right to time for reply. In fact, I think some of us understood the Chair had power already to see that time was given. I should not like to send back the Standing Order to the Committee and ask them to make provision for the terrible contingencies to which Deputy Dillon has referred. I think we might see how the new Standing Order will work and, if what Deputy Dillon fears should happen, we can ask the Committee on Procedure and Privileges to re-deal with the matter. I think Deputies got the impression from the Chair that to insert this provision would be like tacking on some of our dirty linen to the Standing Order.

Mr. Dillon

I do not regard it as dirty linen.

Mr. Lemass

I think that Deputy Mulcahy's suggestion is an excellent one and that we should try it.

Mr. Dillon

The experience of the British House of Commons is that a private Deputy is habitually talked out. He never gets anywhere. The lame, the halt and the blind and old fellows who have not been seen in the House for six months are brought in to talk him out.

Mr. Lemass

That is not our experience.

Mr. D. Morrissey

I have known it to happen.

Mr. Dillon

We saw some queer old "crocks" brought in for this purpose.

General Mulcahy

We can agree to the Standing Order and, if Deputies like, send it back.

Mr. Brennan

Do the words of the motion include a motion to refer back an Estimate?

An Ceann Comhairle

An Estimate is not a Bill.

Mr. Brennan

The motion refers to "a motion ... other than a motion relating to any stage of a Bill". That would seem to me to cover motions relating to public business.

An Ceann Comhairle

The proposed Standing Order refers to Private Members' motions, not amendments.

Mr. Lemass

A motion to refer back an Estimate is an amendment to a motion that the Estimate be passed.

Mr. Dillon

I shall agree to this motion if you give me an undertaking that this question of the ten minutes will be considered.

An Ceann Comhairle

Certainly.

Question put and agreed to.