Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 20 May 1941

Vol. 83 No. 5

Committee on Finance. - Vote 31—Fisheries.

Dr. Ryan

I move:—

Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £18,712 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1942, chun Tuarastail agus Costaisí i dtaobh Iascach Mara agus Intíre, ar a n-áirmhítear Ildeontaisí-i-gCabhair.

That a sum, not exceeding £18,712, be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending the 31st day of March, 1942, for Salaries and Expenses in connection with Sea and Inland Fisheries, including sundry Grants-in-Aid.

This Estimate, as printed, is virtually self-explanatory and, therefore, I do not propose to trouble the House with anything like a detailed survey of it. The following few items, however, seem fairly to call for some comments by me for the information of Deputies. Sub-head E (3): In this case the provision made last year for a contribution by us to the International Council for the Exploration of the Sea has been replaced by a token item of £5; and the provision then made for the travelling expenses of our delegate to the council's meeting has also been replaced by a token item of £5. This body has its headquarters at Copenhagen, and it is hardly necessary to remark that we did not make any disbursement either by way of contribution or delegate's expenses in the past year, nor is it likely that we shall have occasion to do so for some time to come.

On sub-head E (5), as I explained here, some 12 months ago, when discussing the provision of £2,500 in the 1940-41 Estimate for special insurance for steam trawlers, the justification for such a disbursement from public funds was that the small group of steam trawlers owned and operated here are in a unique position with regard to insurance against special war risks, as they are neither eligible for the pool arrangement operated by Lloyd's in respect of vessels of the mercantile marine, nor were they deemed open to participation in a scheme of reinsurance set up by the British Government in connection with mutual insurance clubs dealing with steam trawlers registered across Channel. It would be impossible for these trawlers to get war risk insurance at all. At the same time I made it clear that payment of the war insurance premium for which provision was then being set down was entirely subject to the execution by the owners of a deed containing safeguards of a kind satisfactory to the Minister.

For example, I intended to have it clearly settled that if a vessel on which we were paying such premium happened to be lost by reason of the risks covered, the owners would not be entitled to retain the proceeds of the policy for their own purposes, but must replace the lost vessel by something like the equivalent in tonnage and fishing capacity. In other words, the object of the scheme was to secure the maintenance in being of a deep-sea trawling fleet. Owing to a number of circumstances with the particulars of which I need not trouble the Dáil, the owners have not yet been able to make compliance with our requirements by way of replacement in respect of one trawler lost by them and therefore no payment has been made from the provision set down in the Estimate last year. In like manner no payment will be made from the provision in the Estimate now under discussion until such time as our requirements have been fully met by the owners.

On sub-head F (1) it will be seen that the increase of £500 shown here, as compared with last year's figure, arises entirely from the heavier call which, in the light of the past few seasons' experience, we must expect to be made upon us by the Minister for Local Government, upon whose certificate there is automatically made a disbursement provided for at sub-division (4) of this sub-head. I have more than once explained to the House that when, by virtue of the Fisheries Act, 1925, the poor rate upon fishery assessments previously payable to the local councils became payable instead to the fishery conservators, there was a complementary provision inserted in that statute which, in effect, directed that if the loss of the rates formerly derived by the council from such assessments should result in the aggregate rate for the area served by the council being increased by a sum equivalent to more than the produce of one penny in the £ on the entire valuation, the excess over that figure must be made good from this Fisheries Vote. In other words the item under discussion merely provides for the carrying out of a statutory obligation.

We have provided for the requirements of the Sea Fisheries Association under the usual four sub-heads—G (1), G (2), G (3) and G (4). The first of these sub-heads stands at the same figure as it did last year; and the second sub-head has been reduced from £4,000 to £3,000, which amount the directors of the association agree will suffice for the relevant requirements. At sub-head G (3) there is being provided the same amount as was set down last year, and inasmuch as £15,000 was made available on the sub-head two years ago we shall in effect have provided in three years at least £35,000 for the supply of boats and gear. It may interest Deputies to know that the sums voted under this sub-head in the past eight or nine years are now beginning to show something like a fair return. I should like to give you some of the returns to the fishermen. The members had an income in 1940, from fish marketed by the association, of £43,500; the amount was £31,000 in 1939, and £17,000 in 1938.

Mr. McMenamin

There was a huge increase in the price of fish?

Dr. Ryan

Yes.

Mr. McMenamin

What about the quantity?

Dr. Ryan

The quantity is higher. There is a very healthy increase in the returns. With all the trouble and miseries which the war conditions have brought upon people generally, our inshore fishermen have at least some consolation in the fact that they are now making a living for themselves and their families, while at the same time rapidly reducing the debts outstanding on their boats and gear. The quantity of fish caught by the association would be higher last year than in the previous year. The total amount of home fish landed was about the same and we had something like three or four deep-sea trawlers less working. The inshore fishermen made up for the deficiency in the trawling. As to sub-head G (4), the reduction to £1,000 of a provision set down last year at £5,000 is explained by the fact that the directors of the association have been unable to carry to completion, in existing circumstances, certain proposals which have been in mind by way of cold storage installations.

Mr. McMenamin

Has the association any cold storage?

Dr. Ryan

Arrangements in that connection are being made. The only item under Appropriations-in-Aid upon which I would like to comment comes under sub-head H, and it concerns receipts by way of licences under the Whale Fisheries Act. There is only a token item of £5 inserted in the Estimate, because all these whaling vessels have been withdrawn from registration in this country and therefore no such licence fees will be collectable. The vessels are on other work and we are not likely to get anything from them in the coming year.

Mr. Esmonde

Has the Minister the number of men engaged in the fishing industry?

Dr. Ryan

That figure is published in the annual report. We have not any more recent figure than what was published.

Mr. Lynch

The inshore fishermen along the coast and particularly on the south coast, are doing extremely well at the present time. They are getting very good prices, prices which, I think, were not touched even during the peak years of the last war. The position is that, if they can continue to fish so profitably, they will probably go a long way towards clearing off all their indebtedness to the association. That is a pretty big "if", because there is the danger that they may not have sufficient supplies of motor fuel to enable them to carry on their business. This is a very serious matter, and the Minister should consult the Sea Fisheries Association about it. There are many places along the south coast, in the Galway area and probably in Donegal, where motor boats require further supplies of oil. Except for the purpose of starting the engine, paraffin is mostly used for the running of the boats, and the supplies of paraffin are very short. There should be some way found to meet that situation. I think the Sea Fisheries Association might be able to deal with it.

The members of the association should get in touch with the Department of Supplies, and they should see to it that, while the fishing is good, any paraffin supplies available in the country should be placed immediately at the disposal of the fishermen. In the circumstances, household supplies should be cut down to the absolute minimum. The long days are now here, and lamps are not so much required. Therefore, the household supplies of paraffin could be cut down, and boat-owners should receive adequate supplies in order to enable them to carry on the fishing. I know of one place at Portmagee where people voluntarily offered the house supplies of paraffin to the boatmen. In most houses they have decided to use candles for lighting, or do without lights at all in order that the paraffin may be available for the fishermen. The Sea Fisheries Association should request the Department of Supplies to co-operate in some way so that ample supplies of paraffin may be made available for sea fishing purposes.

I saw, in the very brief report of the annual meeting of the Sea Fisheries Association in Galway, that there were strong complaints about the shortage of fuel supplies in Galway. If that is so, then Galway should be their first consideration, because I think there is a fair supply yet in South Kerry—that is, if the fishing is as good in Galway at the moment as it is in Kerry. In Kerry it is remarkably good, particularly at Cahirciveen, at Portmagee and in the Dingle area. The fishermen are almost making fortunes, and it would be an awful pity if they were held up for supplies of oil.

This is an important matter, too, from the point of view of the Sea Fisheries Association because, if the good fishing continues, the heavy indebtedness of many fishermen will be automatically wiped out. The percentage deducted from the catches in each area by the agents will go a long way towards clearing off the indebtedness. In that way the Sea Fisheries Association is intimately concerned to see that the fishermen are able to carry on their business. We all hope that the fishing will continue to be as good as it has been for some time past.

I should like to deal with the application of that part of the Inland Fisheries Act of 1939 which deals with the taking up of nets in fresh waters. I quite understand that the other portion might be much too big an undertaking at the moment. The provision for the taking up of the nets in fresh waters should, I think, be put into operation quickly. It is a matter of very grave concern to a place like Killarney, where the people hope that angling will be an added attraction to a resort which has had a bad time within the last few years. I understand that owing to some legal decision in a case at Galway there may be some difficulties, but surely they are not insurmountable. I do not think that the amount of money involved is very large and perhaps the Department would be able to give the Minister some estimate.

I suggest that he should deal with one area at a time. He should take Munster, Leinster or Connaught and deal with the fresh water nets in one of these areas. He would gain some experience and the people would have the benefit of knowing the results from the point of view of angling amenities. I should like the Minister to consider taking up the nets, for instance, in the Killarney area. The fishing amenities there would be immensely improved if the fresh water netting were terminated. I do not think that the money involved would be a great deterrent. These are the only two matters which I wish to raise.

Mr. B. Brady

I should like to support what Deputy Lynch has said with regard to the supply of oil for fishermen. We were up against that difficulty in Donegal, but with the assistance of the officers of the Sea Fisheries Association and the Department of Supplies we have been able to get a further quantity of oil. It is going to be a serious problem, however, and, now that fish are fetching such high prices and the fishermen are reaping such a good harvest from the fish—which I am sure will last for the next few months at least—it would be a pity if the fishermen were to be deprived of that chance owing to the lack of oil supplies. The position with regard to oil, I know, is uncertain and precarious, but at the same time I believe that the largest possible portion of the supplies available should be put at the disposal of the members of the Sea Fisheries Association and of fishermen generally.

Despite the explanation given by the Minister, I was surprised to see that the development grant has been reduced from £5,000 to £1,000. One would imagine that, notwithstanding the adverse conditions and circumstances, there should still be a number of development schemes that could be undertaken, even in the present circumstances, and the reduction of that much in what merely amounts to a token vote does not promise that there is going to be very much development undertaken by the Sea Fisheries Association this year. The Sea Fisheries Association, so far as we in Donegal are concerned, have done very good work during the last couple of years, and I think that during that period the fishermen in Donegal have responded very well and that the returns from that area are pretty high. I am afraid, however, that the encouragement that is going to be given this year, if we are to judge by the reduction in this Vote, is not going to be very much.

During the last year or two there has been a number of boats—some ten or 12—around the neighbourhood of Killybegs, and representations have been made to the Sea Fisheries. Association to have an icing plant installed. There was difficulty last summer, as a result of not having an icing plant, and losses were suffered because ice was not available locally, with the result that, I think, some of the fish went bad and was unsaleable when it reached Dublin. At any rate, considerable loss was sustained by the Sea Fisheries Association. There is a site available locally and all the necessary local assistance that can be given will be given. Therefore, I was hoping that some of this Vote would be used this year for the purpose of putting an icing plant there. Notwithstanding the reduction in the Vote, I think it should be possible to install an icing plant there, and, if so, it should be put there as soon as possible this year. Otherwise, the same conditions will apply this year as last year, and since the amount of fish is likely to be much heavier this year than last year, the resultant loss to the association and the fishermen will be so much the greater if these facilities are not available.

Mr. McMenamin

I should like the Minister to have said something more about the provision of additional boats, particularly in view of the fact that the price of fish has gone to such a figure and that there will be a regular harvest amongst the fishermen. Secondly, as Deputy Lynch has pointed out, if proper facilities are supplied to the fishermen, they should be in a position in a very short time to pay off their liabilities to the association. I understand, from conversations that I had with the Department, that there is difficulty in getting timber and in getting the proper kinds of timber. I take it that the stock is pretty limited.

I think it is very unfortunate that better provision, to put it mildly, could not be made at a time like this, because, without knowing very much about what is taking place elsewhere, one can easily conceive that, so far as the North Sea is concerned, fishing is not going to continue there for the duration of the war. That gives an excellent opportunity to resurrect the fishing industry in this country. I cannot speak with any emphasis on this matter, since I do not know too much about it, but I would urge on the Minister, the Department, and the Sea Fisheries Association that all the resources at their command should be mobilised in order to secure boats or the timber to make boats, if it can be got at all. I think that this is a golden opportunity, if we could only embrace it.

On the other hand, the question raised by Deputy Lynch has to fit into this thing. There is no use in having boats if we have no kerosene or paraffin or crude oil. Some of these boats are run on Diesel engines, while others are started on petrol and run on paraffin, and so the two things are required. Deputy Lynch referred to the report of the annual meeting of the association in Galway last week. That matter of a shortage also applies to Mayo. When one reads about this petrol racker, as it is called, one has to be very careful about saying that there is a shortage anywhere. The distribution of petrol in a bona fide manner creates quite a problem, particularly when we are hard up for supplies generally. It is not easy to secure an equitable distribution of what is available, I know. There has been a heavy demand on the Department of Supplies for petrol for tractors during the last two months, and, of course, it is quite possible that, in the demand and outcry of the farmers to get provision for their tractors, the fishermen have run short of paraffin and crude oil, but I think the matter should be brought up at the moment.

After all, farming operations will ease off now for a few months. Until the harvest arrives, the only important farm operation will be the cutting of grass. That is all that will take place until the wheat and oats are ripe. Accordingly, I think that the Minister and members of the Sea Fisheries Association should look into that matter with a view to seeing that, during the time when there is bound to be a saving in supplies used by the farmers, these supplies should be made available for the fishermen. After all, the farmer cannot go along all the time shouting out for supplies. I fought as hard as I could for them because I did not want them to say next winter, when perhaps we might be all starving, that they could not produce food because they could not get the crude oil or paraffin, but I think the farmers should close their months some time. I have opened my mouth often enough during the last few months on their behalf, but the crops are all in now and the farmers should go lighter on their supplies since there is very little to be done between now and about the middle of August.

In that connection, there should be a consultation with the Department of Supplies with regard to subdividing the number of boats you have into those using paraffin and those using Diesel oil. You could then get an approximate time-table of the amount of work done by these boats per week —that is to say, if they are fishing five or six nights a week, or so-and-so—and you could relate that to the horsepower. In that way you could arrive pretty accurately at the consumption per day of paraffin or crude oil per boat. I am afraid, in that connection, that you will have to keep a strict check, because there is such a demand for paraffin for domestic and perhaps other purposes, that in order to protect the fishermen stringent regulations will have to be made to see that the oil reaches the fishermen. I should like the Department to look into this matter, because I saw an urgent letter relating to the fishermen of Mayo last week—but there are so many things happening with regard to paraffin and petrol that one has almost become a sceptic and one has to be very careful. It is pretty well possible, however, to test it, because an engine has a certain horse-power and is out so many nights. The local agent can verify whether a boat is actually out, and supplies for that period can be given on that basis. These supplies must be seen to soon, because the August fishing will be coming along. The salmon fishing will come in June next, and then the herring fishing comes, and arrangements should be made with the Department of Supplies whereby portion of the supplies in the easy months, so far as consumption is concerned, will be set aside for this purpose.

If there is no material available for making boats, there is no use in asking that extra provision be made for them, but, if the material is available, I would readily vote a sum of money for the provision of more boats in order to bring much-needed prosperity to the areas affected. Anybody who knows anything about the subject knows the cruel time which fishermen have gone through in the last ten or 15 years. That reacted on the State in respect of the ability of these men to discharge their debts to the association, and to the Department, prior to the creation of the Sea Fisheries Association. It would be a great blessing for these people and would solve many of their economic difficulties if more boats could be provided for them. I am quite sure that there is a huge number of applications from these people and nothing can be done for them. There is no reason why the number of boats should not be doubled. The association has 131 boats which, for the coastline we have, is quite a small number.

I do not know what the number of applications is, but I expect it runs into hundreds and hundreds, and anything that could be done in the way of getting timber for the building of these boats should be done. There is, of course, the problem of the engines which, with all the other things, are caught up in the vortex of this war and it is probably impossible to get them, but I urge the Minister to do everything he can in the matter. I am sure the association, through which these things must be done, would be very glad to do them, if they are provided with funds. They are limited in what they can do for their members by the restricted amount voted by the House, but if the Minister can find a means of providing extra boats and gear, he will get many blessings.

Mr. Bartley

I should like to draw the Minister's attention to a complaint I had recently from the fishermen in the Aran Islands, that their fish is not being marketed for them. They are losing a good deal, as a result, and I ask the Minister to see that something is done in the matter. With regard to boats, could the Minister say how many boats have come ashore as wrecks since the war began, how many have remained unclaimed, and if many of them have been taken by his Department for conversion into fishing boats? I understand the Department of Defence has kept some of them, but, in view of the shortage of boats for fishing purposes, I think the Department of Defence ought not to commandeer all of them. I believe that some of them had to be sent to England, where they were claimed, but that some remain which are quite good, and which would help in some small degree to meet the great need for boats at present.

One matter about which I find people talk a good deal is the private ownership of several fisheries. There seems to be general objection to it. It is not, of course, a matter of recent development. I have met a good many people who seem to think that, with the scarcity of food generally, and fishing in particular, this would be a very suitable way of providing easily-procurable supplies of fish. People resent the fact, and rightly, in my opinion, that salmon should be 4/- per lb. in Ireland. It may seem an ambitious thing to put up an argument for bringing salmon within the reach of the ordinary consumer, but I see no objection at all to it. The average man seems to be thoroughly convinced that this private ownership of several fisheries is against natural justice, and I think so myself.

Mr. McMenamin

What is against natural justice?

Mr. Bartley

I am referring to the attitude of the average man, as I have gauged it. It is that he objects to the private ownership of several fisheries as being against natural justice, and I agree with him; but whether it is or not, the suggestion has been put to me several times that the Minister might justifiably, in this crisis, do something by utilising these fisheries for the production of fish for the poor. I do not suggest that it should be given out free, or anything like that, but the figure of 4/- per lb. for salmon seems to be entirely unjustifiable, even though salmon is a luxury fish. I do not wish to elaborate that point further than to inform the Minister that certain people, at all events, hold that view.

A complaint has been made to me about the shortness of the season for eel fishing, and it has been represented to me that there should not be any close season at all for eel fishing in our lakes. I am referring particularly now to the Corrib. Scientists tell us that eels do not spawn in these lakes, but that they go across the ocean and spawn in the Carribean Sea, and do not come back but send their offspring. That is what the knowledgeable people tell us, anyway, and, if that is so, there cannot be any point in having a close season for the preservation of eels. I believe that 350 or 400 families make a fairly decent living by eel fishing on Lough Neagh, and a lake like the Corrib could be developed in this respect also. I know that a good proportion of the supply of eels in the Corrib is trapped at the river in Galway, but I ask the Minister to consider either abolishing the close season altogether, or extending it very considerably, so that the small number of people engaged in eel fishing—some of them entirely dependent on it for a living—may get a better opportunity.

There is one other matter I wish to bring to the Minister's notice and that is the hatchery at Oughterard. I ask him to consider as favourably as possible the application of the Galway and Lough Corrib Anglers' Association for a grant for the clearing off of the expenses and costs which the association undertook in putting up that hatchery. It is generally acknowledged to be a very good job. The people there did not trouble the Department in any way in connection with the building of it. A committee got together and put up the funds and the hatchery is completed and is producing fry. There are, however, bank charges and maintenance charges to be met and the income of the association is not able to meet those charges. I think the association has a very good case for a fairly decent grant, and I ask the Minister to consider it as favourably as possible.

Mr. J.P. Kelly

I should like to ask the Minister what is the position in connection with the erection of a second tank for the purification of mussels in this country. He is aware that for a number of years we have been asking for the erection of a purification tank in Mornington at the mouth of the Boyne so as to enable the fishermen there to engage in an industry which was very lucrative in years gone by. For some years Kerry Deputies joined in drawing attention to the necessity for the erection of a tank in County Kerry. Although we have a very short coastline in County Meath, I want to draw attention to the possibilities of Mornington as a site for a second tank. When the experts examined sites in various parts of the country they came to the conclusion that the site in Kerry was the best one, but, as far as I understand, they also reported that Mornington came second. There is an understanding that, should another tank be erected, Mornington would get the preference.

When this matter was raised some time ago the Minister informed us that it would take some time before he could arrive at a decision as to whether a second tank should be erected, and that he would be guided largely by the success which attended the working of the tank at Cromane in County Kerry. From inquiries I have made I understand that the plant in Cromane is working very satisfactorily. I also understand that a market is available for the fish. Minor difficulties may present themselves, especially during the war period, in connection with transport, etc. In Mornington about 300 families depended for a livelihood in the winter months on the money secured from the mussel-fishing industry. That has been denied to them for some years since a ban was put on the export of the mussels to the English market. These people have been living on grants of one kind or another. Unfortunately, some of the young men cannot get work at home and have had to seek work in other areas.

There is no need to go into the merits of Mornington as a site for such a tank, because the Minister can find on the files of his Department, in connection with the mussel-fishing industry, a report on the Mornington site almost as favourable as that in connection with the Kerry site, and more favourable than that with regard to any other site. The fish marketed in the past was of first-rate quality, and secured a very easy market because of that quality. The demand is there still even after the lapse of a few years. Merchants who were in the habit of handling the fish on the English market are constantly making inquiries from the Mornington fishermen when the fish will be available again. I would, therefore, request the Minister to recommend the Sea Fisheries Association to erect a second tank in Mornington, so that the people there may be able to take advantage of the market which opens in the month of October.

Mr. Coburn

I think the work of the Sea Fisheries Association during the past few years has been very helpful to the men engaged in that industry. All along the eastern seaboard, so far as my information goes, great facilities have been placed at the disposal of the fishermen, and these have been of great advantage to them. I think that the association should get all the support possible to enable them to continue with the good work, especially at the present time when fairly remunerative prices are being paid for fish. Deputy Bartley referred to the salmon fisheries and, if his remarks meant anything, they meant that those fisheries should be confiscated; at least he stated that some people were of that opinion, and he agreed that they should be taken over because there happens to be a time of emergency. I would remind the Deputy that the same thing might be said in reference to every class of business in the country. There would be no law or order in the country if that opinion were allowed to gain ground. I hope Deputy Bartley does not agree with that opinion.

I want to speak about the shell-fishing industry. A certain amount of money is set out for investigation in connection with shell-fish. This matter has been debated here on several occasions. Several conferences were held in regard to this question, but the only result was the erection of a purification tank on the coast of Kerry. On the eastern coast the people are suffering great inconvenience at present owing to lack of a purification tank. The Minister must know that for the last few years the export of shellfish to the British market has been prohibited, because the medical authorities on the other side had traced some cases of poisoning to those exports. They issued a notice to the effect that until our authorities were in a position to certify the purity of the shell-fish, they would not allow any more of it into England. All along the eastern seaboard, from Drogheda to Dundalk, and up to Omeath and Greenore, we have huge quantities of mussels. For the reasons stated the people there are not allowed to export this shell-fish. The Minister cannot complain that we have not given him sufficient notice as to the urgency of providing a purification tank. It is some years since the question was first raised here. The value of the shell-fish that used to be exported from the port of Dundalk was in or about a few thousand pounds a year. That sum, divided amongst the families engaged in the work, amounted to a tidy sum. It provided a fair amount of employment during the winter months for a large number of the people who now find it difficult to get employment of a continuous nature. Some of them might get employment on the boats once a week or once a fortnight. During the winter months they used to be employed on this work. Deputy Kelly made a claim that the purification tank should be erected at Mornington. I do not mind where it is erected so long as we get it. We are not going to fall out about it. We want the tank so that this export trade may be resumed. The cost is estimated to be in or about £6,000 or £7,000. When one considers the boon that its erection would confer on the people concerned, the Government should not hesitate to provide it. I want to join with Deputy Kelly in urging on the Minister, on his officials and on the Sea Fisheries Association that this is a matter of pressing importance for the people concerned.

Another point to be considered is that these mussels are at the moment more or less a danger to navigation. Huge quantities of them congregate in the navigable portion of the river. The opinion of people competent to judge is that their presence there is beginning to constitute a menace to shipping. I do not know whether that applies to the harbour in Drogheda, but it does to Dundalk harbour. The harbour at Dundalk is a very difficult one to keep dredged, for the reason that it is so flat any little obstacle in the middle of the river constitutes a danger to shipping. I would impress on the Minister the absolute necessity of proceeding with all possible speed in the preparation of plans for the erection of this purification tank somewhere on the east coast to facilitate the mussel gatherers in Drogheda, Dundalk and right up to Omeath and Greenore. The cost of its provision would be money well spent. There is no hope for the people who used to earn a livelihood at this industry as long as the ban imposed by the medical authorities in England is enforced. One can hardly complain of their decision because they have the duty of safeguarding the health of their people. Our medical authorities here will not issue any certificate until they are absolutely satisfied that the shell-fish are pure. The only way in which they can be assured on that point is by having a purification tank on the lines of the tank already provided on the Kerry coast.

Mr. L.J. Walsh

I desire to endorse the appeal that has been made for the erection of a purification tank on the east coast with a view to helping the mussel industry. The people at Mornington, at the mouth of the Boyne, have been amongst the largest exporters of mussels in the history of the mussel trade. The industry has passed completely away. As Deputy Coburn has pointed out, the accumulation of mussels in the Boyne has become such a menace that the Drogheda Harbour Board has been obliged to use the dredger to dredge the latent wealth of the river and deposit it out at sea. I can substantiate Deputy Kelly's statement that there are about 300 families in the village of Mornington who used to get a living out of the mussel industry. Ninety-five per cent. of them are now obliged to go on the dole during the winter months. If something could be done to provide a purification tank there, the country would be saved the cost of supporting them on the dole. The sum so saved would go a long way towards meeting the cost of the tank. At one period, so far as Drogheda and Mornington are concerned, a very substantial sum was voluntarily offered towards the cost of the erection of a tank. I am not at all satisfied that if proper steps were taken we could not again establish the mussel industry at the mouth of the Boyne.

On behalf of the salmon fishermen on the River Boyne, I feel it my duty to express disagreement with the point put forward by Deputy Bartley with regard to the spawning of salmon by artificial propagation. It must be well known to the Minister that the salmon fishermen on the Boyne object to that, and want to get back to the ways of nature. I am informed that there is a petition before the Minister at the moment asking him to withhold grants from those fish hatcheries. If it is the wish of the fishermen who have to make their living from salmon fishing, I think their request should be acceded to. I hope that, when the Minister comes to consider the question of the erection of the mussel tank, he will not overlook the site that, from the point of view of exports, was the most important as regards the mussel industry in this country. The records are there to prove that. With these few remarks, I hope the Minister will keep Mornington in mind when he comes to decide about the erection of the second purification tank in the country.

Dr. Ryan

I propose to deal first with a few points that were raised by Deputy Lynch. He asked about supplies of paraffin and petrol for the inshore fishermen. I need hardly say that is a point that is having attention. The Sea Fisheries Association had already made representations to the Department about it, and, in turn, the Department are making representations to the Department of Supplies. It must be remembered that the Minister for Supplies has to give consideration to all the various interests concerned. Of the supply of fuel available, a share will be required for tractors for harvesting operations. Various commercial organisations will be looking for a share, too. I may say, anyway, that the Department of Fisheries are doing everything to get these supplies for the fishermen.

Mr. McMenamin

Are you getting reasonable supplies for those men? Are there any serious complaints?

Dr. Ryan

There certainly are complaints, but I must say I did not hear those complaints until about a week ago.

Mr. McMenamin

It was only about a week ago that I heard them.

Dr. Ryan

I have not made a very strict investigation as to whether those complaints are fully justified or not, but they are being gone into. With regard to fresh water netting, there has been some litigation which has postponed the bringing into operation of the provisions of the 1939 Act, but it is not intended that there should be any avoidable delay. It is not possible to adopt the suggestion made by Deputy Fionan Lynch, that is to bring it in piecemeal. The section is fairly clear. I believe, and once the order is made it must be put into operation all round. Deputy Brady raised a point with regard to an icing plant for Killybegs. There are six on order, and I think we have a fair hope that they will be along soon. One of those is for Killybegs, so that will make that matter right.

Deputy Bartley raised a question with regard to the marketing of fish in Aran. This again is a difficult problem. It is a problem concerned particularly with transit. The sea Fisheries Association and the Department will see what can be done about it. We hope that we may be able to do something to improve the position, but owing to the great difficulty of transit at the present time we may not be able to make things as smooth-running as they would like in the Aran Islands. The Sea Fisheries Association has had some of those derelict boats which Deputy Bartley referred to inspected, but they were not suitable for the purposes of the fishermen. Deputy McMenamin also referred to boats, and said it would be a good thing, now that there is a good price, if the fishermen could have more boats provided for them. There are three boats in the course of construction, so there will be three new boats, but I do not know whether or not it will be possible to get any more built. So far, we have not been told by the boat builders that they are held up for materials, but it is possible that they may be now. Deputy Bartley also referred to the closed season for eel fishing. As the Deputy knows—I think he knows a good deal about fishing laws—any change in the closed season would have to be the subject of an inquiry. I did, as a matter of fact, learn from some of the scientists that what Deputy Bartley says is believed anyway to be true by some of the scientists—that the eels do not spawn in this country—and therefore there would not appear to be that reason for the closed season that there is in the case of other fish. Another reason, I suppose, would be the necessity for giving them a rest, so that they would not be all done away with too quickly.

In any case, the matter would have to be the subject of an inquiry before anything could be done. The Oughterard Hatchery has been referred to on a number of occasions during the year. It is a local matter, of course, and I think Deputy Bartley and the other Deputies for Connemara are familiar with what took place then. I do not want to go back to the past; all I want to say at this stage is, that if a good case is put up—I am sure they will put up a big case—a grant will be made.

Mr. McMenamin

That is a splendid invitation.

Dr. Ryan

I will add to that; the grant will be as generous as possible under the circumstances. Deputy Kelly and also Deputy Coburn raised a question with regard to Mornington. I think we did say that we are awaiting the results from Cromane before going on with another purification tank. We would want to wait a year or two. So far, the results from Cromane are satisfactory on the whole, but we would want to wait a year or two before we could get a true picture of the benefit of having a purification tank of that kind. The position there, as outlined especially by Deputy Coburn and Deputy Walsh, is not going to be changed in any way for some time, because even if we did decide to build the purification tank in that area it would take a couple of years to complete; it is a very slow job, so those who are gathering mussels there must carry on somehow for a year or two.

Mr. McMenamin

Have you not had that matter before you for years? Why in the name of goodness should you not erect the tank and give it to them?

Dr. Ryan

We have only completed the Cromane tank this year.

Mr. McMenamin

You went away down to Kerry and erected one. The Deputies for Louth and Meath have been putting this matter before the House for years, but you gave a tank to Kerry.

Dr. Ryan

We went to the place where they had more mussels, better mussels.

Mr. L.J. Walsh

Oh, no. I do not agree.

Dr. Ryan

In other words, we gave it to the most extensive district. Anyway, it is an experiment, if you like, for the present. It is probably going to be a success, but still we have to wait a year or two, and in the meantime those gathering mussels in those areas should try to co-operate with the Department. If they gather those mussels in the approved areas, they will not have the same trouble about marketing their catch. Really, most of the trouble is due to that. It is a public health question, of course; my Department is having a conference with the Department of Local Government and Public Health this week, and we will try to have the matter fixed as best we can, but we must have the co-operation of the people in the district.

Question put and agreed to.