Vol. 85 No. 3
I move:—
That, notwithstanding anything to the contrary contained in Standing Order 19, and until further resolved, the Dáil do adjourn not later than 10 p.m. on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays, and that the order for the adjournment on those days be taken not later than 9.30 p.m.
Will someone tell us what this means?
It means that we adjourn at 9.30 p.m.
It says that we shall adjourn not later than 10 p.m.
It says that the order for adjournment be taken not later than 9.30 p.m. The House will adjourn at 9.30 unless there be a question on the adjournment.
Who is going to tell us what the Government propose to do about Private Members' time?
We have been giving Private Members more time than they would get in the ordinary way. The arrangement entered into for this week is that we shall give whatever time is left to-morrow, after Government business has been disposed of, to Private Members. Government business to-morrow may not be very substantial. That would leave almost a whole day for Private Members to discuss any matter on the Order Paper.
Not to give the Parliamentary Secretary a short answer, I am not interested in what the Government gives me. I am interested in what Dáil Eireann authorises me to take from the Government. The Standing Orders have accorded to Private Deputies certain allotted time every week in which Private Deputies' business takes precedence of Government business, and if the Government want to get hold of that time, they will have to do it by resolution of the House. I want that safeguard—the right of a Private Deputy as against the Government. I see that right being materially curtailed by this House rising an hour earlier than it was in the habit of doing. I am prepared to consent that the House should meet at two in the afternoon and adjourn at half-past nine, or I am prepared to consent to a proposal from the Government that the House should meet at three and continue until half-past nine—indeed, if it continued until ten o'clock I do not think it would break its heart—and move back the time for the beginning of Private Deputies' business to eight o'clock. But I strenuously object to any proposal that the House should adjourn earlier exclusively at the expense of Private Deputies' time.
There are two valuable parts of our procedure in my opinion. One is the Parliamentary question and the other is Private Deputies' time. All the rest of our procedure might be very materially altered and improved by adopting a more expeditious method of discharging business. But to these two— the Parliamentary question and Private Deputies' time—I attach supreme importance. If either one or the other of them is seriously diminished, then I think the value of Parliament as an instrument of human liberty is proportionately reduced. It is impossible to throw too much emphasis on that. There is a tendency on the part of Executives to curtail those privilieges of the Independent Deputy or the Private Deputy. Should that tendency grow, Parliament will become a perfectly useless institution. As it is an invaluable instrument of liberty I object to any casual proposal seriously to entrench on the privileges of the Private Deputy, and I ask for the most comprehensive assurances of a very specific kind from the Tánaiste before I am prepared to agree to the proposal enshrined in this resolution.
I think that I can take it that this motion, in the name of the Parliamentary Secretary to the Taoiseach, is an agreed motion from the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, on which body I think Deputy Dillon is well represented. Am I to take it that Deputy Dillon objects to the resolution which has got the assent of his friends and supporters on that committee?
I want the Tánaiste to take this perfectly clearly, that I object to any proposal, whencesoever it may come, which is designed to reduce Private Deputies' time exclusively with no contribution from Government time. It seems to me that that representation is manifestly just and fair and that it ought to be met. I do not know what discussion went on at the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. The Tánaiste knows well that neither he nor I, not being on the committee, is kept in day-to-day acquaintance with what has passed there. The members of that committee are highly competent to discharge their business, but that does not preclude the Tánaiste or me from speaking our mind on the subject in Dáil Eireann. Does he agree with me that it is very vital that the right of Private Deputies to their exclusive time, as against the Government, should be preserved?
I do.
All I am pressing for is that, if this is carried, specific guarantees should be given that the curtailment of the time should not be exclusively at the expense of the Private Deputy. That is important, and the Tánaiste ought to know that because he was years in opposition himself.
My objection to the motion is not to what is in it, but to the fact that it does not go far enough and should have coupled with it a further resolution amending the Standing Orders providing for Private Deputies' time which will allow of its being brought forward so that the time allotted might remain as it has been.
I thought there was some convention at any rate, even if there was nothing formal about it, that once the Committee on Procedure and Privileges agreed to a matter of this kind it should be accepted. I quite agree with Deputy Dillon as to the importance of Private Deputies' time. That is not dealt with in the resolution, but I cannot imagine that the committee ignored it. There is no intention on the part of the Government to do anything which would deprive Private Deputies of the time to which they are entitled—none at all. They need not take it from this resolution that this is any insidious attempt on the part of the Government to do that. But it does not deal with the matter, as Deputy Benson stated, and I think we ought to ask the committee to meet again and discuss the matter.
That is quite sufficient for me if the Táiniste will undertake that the Chief Government Whip will bring the matter before the committee.
I take it this motion is agreed to?
I am prepared to agree.
I take it we agree to this motion and that we will ask the committee to discuss the question of Private Deputies' time?
I am prepared to agree, in the light of the Tánaiste's undertaking.
