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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 17 Jun 1942

Vol. 87 No. 10

Committee on Finance. - Vote 62—Wireless Broadcasting.

I move:—

Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £44,245 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31 adh lá de Mhárta, 1943, chun Tuarastail agus Costaisí eile i dtaobh Foirleatha Neashrangaigh (Uimh. 45 de 1926).

That a sum not exceeding £44,245 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending the 31st day of March, 1943, for Salaries and other Expenses in connection with Wireless Broadcasting (No. 45 of 1926).

The amount of the Estimate for the broadcasting service for the financial year 1942-43 is £66,245, a net reduction of £4,350 on the provision for last year. The decrease is mainly due to the absence of provision for the after-hours experimental short-wave transmissions included in last year's Estimate. These transmissions, as I previously informed the House, were discontinued in March, 1941, because reception in countries abroad was found to be unsatisfactory.

The variations under the sub-heads are as follows:—Sub-head A: Decrease £1,630. Due to the non-inclusion of the salary of the Director post, the position being vacant and the remuneration under consideration when the Estimate was being prepared; to the cessation of post of Principal Clerk, the holder of the post having been transferred to another Department and the present arrangements for the performance of the duties being of a temporary character; also to staff savings resulting from the discontinuance of the short-wave transmissions already referred to. There are off-setting increases due to the conversion of the Music Director post from part-time to full-time and to incremental increases in salary, etc. Sub-head B: Decrease £670. Due mainly to programme savings resulting from the discontinuance of the short-wave transmissions; offset by increased provision for performing right fees, for expenditure on public orchestral and symphony concerts and on additional assistance in the news section. Sub-head E: Decrease £215. Representing savings on light, power, etc., by reason of the cessation of the short-wave transmissions offset by the cost of increased power requirements at the Dublin and Cork stations. Sub-head F: Decrease £1,760. Due to provision for special equipment for short-wave transmissions not being required this year; also to reduced expenditure on maintenance and renewals, etc. The decreases are offset by increased cost of materials.

Revenue from wireless licences in the financial year which ended on the 31st March last amounted to approximately £109,000, and from advertisements and miscellaneous receipts to approximately £2,000: total, £111,000. This was £10,500 less than had been expected, the decrease being due to the cessation of sponsored programmes and to a falling off in wireless licence receipts. The total number of licences on the 31st March last was 174,550, a drop of 8,144 on the figures for the corresponding date in 1941. For the current financial year it was anticipated, when the Estimate was being prepared, that revenue would reach a total of £115,400, including £400 from advertisements, etc., but it is evident now that this estimate is not likely to be realised. By reason partly, no doubt, of the general circumstances of the times and partly of the difficulty which many holders of wireless sets are experiencing in obtaining essential parts, particularly high-tension batteries, more than ordinary trouble is at present being experienced in securing renewal of licences in proper course. In relation to this I wish to emphasise that there is a statutory obligation on all holders of wireless apparatus, whether complete sets or parts of sets and whether workable or not to take out a licence, and that the requirement is one from which there can be no exception. If a person holds wireless apparatus of any kind without a licence he renders himself liable to prosecution and penalty. Proceedings were taken against 580 defaulters last year, fines being imposed in the majority of cases. In some instances confiscation of the apparatus was ordered by the court.

I have been giving special consideration to the position of holders of sets which are inoperable by reason of inability to procure essential components. So long as the sets continue to remain in the holders' possession there is no possibility of relieving them of the obligation to take out a licence. Nor would it, I fear, be practicable to make any concession in regard to the amount of the licence fee in such cases, by reason of the serious administrative difficulties which would be involved. Large scale evasion or attempted evasion would certainly have to be counted upon if any concession were made, and apart from the consideration of resulting loss of revenue the task for the Department of determining, in every case, whether a set was or was not genuinely unworkable, would be an impossible one. The difficulty of discrimination is not lessened by the fact that there has, I understand, been some improvement in the position as regards battery supplies in recent months. My inquiries in the matter, however, are not yet fully completed and some time further will necessarily elapse before a final conclusion can be reached. In the meantime, I wish to renew the suggestion which I have already made that holders of receiving sets, which are inoperable from any cause, should arrange for storage with wireless dealers or other traders and so free themselves completely from liability in regard to the taking out of a licence.

Everything possible continues to be done, within the limits of the resources available, to maintain the general standard of the programmes on a satisfactory level and I think, especially when regard is had to the difficulties associated with broadcast programme production, even under the most favourable conditions, and to the fact that there is, on the whole, little selective listening, that it may fairly be claimed that the efforts have been successful. Certainly neither time, nor thought, nor trouble has been spared in the matter of presenting interesting, varied and educative programmes, and it is pleasant to know, from the vast amount of correspondence received and in other ways, that the programmes of Radio Eireann are proving very attractive to a considerable body of listeners, not only in Ireland but even outside, especially in centres where there are large Irish populations.

An outstanding example of successful initiative on the musical side during the last winter season was the series of public concerts given by the radio orchestra—specially augmented— in the Mansion House. The series concluded with a symphony concert in the Gaiety Theatre under the conductorship of an eminent visiting conductor, who very kindly placed his services at our disposal. There were ten public concerts in all and the public support accorded to them was most gratifying. Not only was there a full house in every instance, but hundreds had on each occasion to be refused admission on account of the inadequacy of the accommodation available. For the symphony concert in the Gaiety Theatre, the reserved accommodation was booked out in one day and, so great was the interest taken in this concert, that it was decided to give a repeat performance in the Mansion House on the following night. For the latter again there was a full house and an enthusiastic audience. A particularly encouraging aspect of all these concerts is the fact that the audience was, for the most part, composed of young people. The remarkable success of the concerts is evidence that a sound public taste exists for the good things in music, which requires only encouragement and opportunity to make itself apparent. I am making provision for a further series of concerts on similar lines next winter. It is a matter for regret, however, that we have not at our disposal a hall, acoustically suitable and of adequate size, in which these first class, highly interesting, and highly educative performances could be given to fullest advantage.

Special attention continues to be paid to the news service and, following the wishes expressed by several Deputies during the debate on the Broadcasting Vote last year, arrangements have been made for the broadcast of an additional bulletin on Sundays. For some time past, therefore, three news bulletins have been broadcast on week-days and two on Sundays.

Another suggestion made last year was that the venue for "Question Time" should not be confined to Dublin. As all interested are, no doubt, aware, broadcasts of this most popular and interesting feature have since been arranged from various provincial centres. A "Question Time" series in Irish was also carried through and drew enthusiastic groups from Gaelic League branches and other Gaelic societies.

The desirability of developing the distinctively Irish character of the programmes is constantly in mind. A series of vocal and instrumental programmes under the title "Contemporary Irish Composers" was given from the studios during the year, and all the public orchestral concerts featured works of home composers. A series based on the music of Irish harpists was also arranged. Various schools of music contributed, many programmes of a high standard and considerable musical interest, namely, the Royal Irish Academy of Music, Cork Municipal School of Music, Leinster School of Music, etc.

The innovation of presenting the Abbey Players and the Longford Productions in representative plays on Sunday evenings has proved particularly popular. These, alternating with the station production of important original plays and the dramatisations of such works as "Knocknagow", etc., have produced a marked increase of public interest in radio plays. This is borne out by the volume of letters received and the friendly criticism offered by listeners both in Ireland and Great Britain. It is hoped to develop and encourage an increase of these presentations with further perfection of presentation.

Considerable progress was made also in the development of Gaelic drama. During the year 1941 there were between 50 and 60 broadcasts of plays in Irish, apart from minor plays and dramatisations in the programmes for school children.

Another suggestion stressed in last year's debate was the need for more frequent radio talks on agriculture, horticulture and kindred subjects. In regard to horticulture, we have now a weekly talk by a very well-known gardening expert. This talk has, for some time past, been given at 9.45 p.m. on Friday nights with a view to conveniencing those who, owing to outside work, etc., are unable to tune in earlier in the evening, and to give people who cannot spare much time for gardening during the week up-to-date hints for the week-end work.

A number of talks on agriculture were broadcast during the year. These were contributed by officers of the Department, by experts recommended by the Department, and by others with whom the broadcasting authorities were able to get in touch. A short series of talks on bee-keeping was also broadcast. I would like to say, while on this question, that the broadcasting authorities are always glad to arrange for talks on agriculture, marketing of produce, and kindred subjects by practical farmers or others who are authorities on the matters on which they speak. The difficulty in this matter is to find suitable people who are willing and able to do this work, and there is also the difficulty that the expert in a particular subject is not always a successful broadcaster.

Just one thing further. While, as I have already said, I regard the programmes of Radio Eireann as of satisfactory standard taking existing broadcasting resources into account, I consider, nevertheless, that the standard falls below what might reasonably be expected from the national station. The Irish programmes should, in my view, reflect the national culture at its best and anything less, apart from being unsatisfactory to listeners, can only have the effect of impairing the national prestige. Therefore, I feel that it would be in the best interests of the country that, consistent with the national finances, broadcasting should have at its disposal resources sufficient to enable it to function on a level worthy of Irish cultural tradition, presenting programmes of good standard, varied, educative and entertaining, reflexive of the best and most characteristic of the national activities.

With this in mind I have, within recent months, been making a close examination of the programme side of the service with the object of determining what improvements might be feasible within reasonable limits of expenditure. So far as my investigations have gone they lead to certain specific conclusions, viz.: the orchestra, as at present constituted, is inadequate for all-round programme work, the provision for fees to "outside" artists—musicians, writers, actors, etc.—is not sufficient to enable adequate payments to be made for work of particular merit; insufficient attention is being paid to the development of national music for radio purposes; there is a large quantity of Irish music which is practically unknown and not orchestrated. I would like to see the hours of broadcasting extended, although I recognise that this is an improvement which, by reason of the need for conservation of electricity, we cannot contemplate at present.

To carry out the more practicable of the improvements indicated would, of course, involve a material addition to existing broadcasting expenditure and the Government would naturally be slow in existing conditions to approve of any increased outlay except where there was urgent justification. That such justification exists in the case of the broadcasting programmes is, however, accepted by the Government in principle and, when the scheme of improvements upon which I am now engaged has been fully worked out— probably by the autumn—I hope to approach the Dáil again for approval of such further financial provision as may be involved.

Now that concludes my formal statement but, before sitting down, I wish to say a further word in regard to the position of holders of battery sets, a matter which has been giving me considerable concern. I realise that there must be a large number of such sets which are inoperable by reason of inability to obtain batteries, but the solution, which has been repeatedly suggested to me, that there should be complete exemption from the liability to take out a licence in such cases, is one beset with serious administrative difficulties. And these difficulties would attend even a modification of the amount of the licence fee which is another solution that has been put forward. The trouble is that, if any concession were to be made, the Post Office would have the onus of determining in every instance whether a set was or was not genuinely unusable; if it was, whether the battery difficulty was the actual and sole cause; the date from which a set became unworkable, i.e., whether prior or subsequent to the due date of renewal of the licence; whether, if a set were unworkable at one particular period, it would continue so—and this is a point upon which the recent easing of the position in regard to battery supplies has a very important bearing. Even if the Department could be satisfied concerning dates—and the difficulties of this are manifest—it is obvious that any concession made in connection with the licence would involve the setting up of a very elaborate system of inspection, if evasion and resulting loss of revenue were to be reasonably guarded against. I do not see how the Post Office could possibly undertake the inspections which would be essential. Therefore, while, as I have already said, no final conclusion in the matter has so far been reached, I fear, on account of the serious practical difficulties, that there is no likelihood of any concession in the matter being found possible, or any alternative to the requirement of taking out a licence in every case in which wireless apparatus whether workable or not is held. Accordingly, I strongly advise persons whose sets are unworkable that they should, in their own interests, take all possible measures to relieve themselves of their statutory liability, by arranging either on their own account or in conjunction with others for temporary storage of the apparatus with wireless dealers or other traders. One licence will cover any number of sets stored at a particular place.

I should like to suggest to the Minister that we should have some broadcasts on civics and citizenship. At the present time there are many complaints from people about the destruction of property, particularly by school-going children, but probably by many adults as well. It is felt that broadcasting would be a very useful means of bringing home to the people responsible for that destruction the seriousness of their acts. Another matter which I should like to call attention to is the news bulletin. When I listen into the news in English at night I find that it generally begins with some foreign items. I think that Irish news should come before we are told about what is happening elsewhere. I think the broadcasts on agriculture and gardening are very useful to plotholders and that they appreciate these talks very much. I think there could not be too many such talks because they are very necessary. Having some knowledge about what is happening at present in the City and suburbs of Cork and of the lack of a decent civic spirit and a spirit of citizenship amongst the people, I think if we had broadcast talks on the subject occasionally they would be very helpful and instructive to people who are inclined to encourage that spirit.

Mr. Byrne

The Minister in his remarks about the Mansion House concerts said that a number of prospective listeners had to be turned away for lack of accommodation. I would suggest to the Minister that if the Government at a later date are putting up another building such as the very fine massive building in Kildare Street, which is a credit to the builders and to the architect, the Post Office out of the excess revenue from broadcasting— if it ever should reach that stage— should have incorporated in such a new building a large hall which could be used for their own concerts. A concert hall is very badly required in the City of Dublin. No private person is prepared to take the risk of putting up such a hall for which there is a definite need. The Minister himself admits that the Round Room of the Mansion House is not a suitable place for concerts of the type that they want to broadcast, and that if they do give a very elaborate concert a large number of prospective listeners are left outside. It is possible that the Government, when things become normal, may be undertaking more building operations. In other countries I have seen in large Government buildings big halls for this purpose. It ought not to be impossible for the Government architects to design such a hall in conjunction with a Government building of another type. I put forward the suggestion because we have seen and heard of such halls on the Continent.

Another point to which I should like to refer is that, while the Minister and those in charge of the broadcasting station engage a certain number of Irish artists for broadcasting, there is still a lot of good talent amongst our Irish artists that is not very often given a chance. I think that Irish artists ought to get a better chance in connection with the radio programmes. I should also like to say that Question Time has been a great success and has been followed with great interest and entertainment. Those who have brought Question Time to cities and towns outside Dublin are to be congratulated on their enterprise. The item has been a very successful one and the listeners have enjoyed the contests very much.

On the whole I think the Government have not been altogether fair to those people who cannot get batteries for their wireless sets, and something ought to be done to assist them. It is not right that people who have procured wireless sets on the hire-purchase system should have to continue to pay instalments for them if the sets cannot be used and these people are not able to enjoy the benefits of the programmes. I trust the Minister will investigate a little further the possibility of doing something for those who have sets that require batteries.

I was hoping to be able to congratulate the Minister this year on a substantial increase in the cost of the programmes broadcast from Radio Eireann. After the case which was submitted to the Minister nearly a year ago by the Writers', Actors', Authors' and Musicians' Association, hopes were entertained that the members of this association would get some sort of equitable remuneration for their work. They have been agitating for many years in that connection. The Minister stated that he has impressed on the Government the urgent justification that exists for increasing the fees to the members of the organisation I have mentioned, but to my mind urgent justification is not enough. I want to see all-round substantial increases in the remuneration given to writers, actors, authors and musicians.

Last year I referred to the very poor rates of payment given to these people. I want now to give a few specific instances to the House of what writers and performers generally receive from Radio Eireann. The Minister has mentioned the letters that have gone to the station congratulating the director and his staff on the quality of the programmes. I should like the Minister to read some of the letters that members of the Writers', Actors', Authors' and Musicians' Association have received complaining of the very miserable fees that performers have been paid by Radio Eireann. The writer of a radio talk will, in very exceptional instances, receive £5. The general fee for a talk lasting 20 minutes is from £2 to £2 10s. The equivalent Press payment for such work would be in the neighbourhood of £5 or £6. In some cases an author might have to travel from the country, read his paper before the microphone and stay at an hotel for the night, all out of £3. I can give a comparative figure of £20, plus travelling expenses, for a similar talk broadcast by the B.B.C. I am not saying that we are in a position to pay B.B.C. fees, but there is no justification for all this talk about sufficient money not being available, because Radio Eireann contributes in the neighbourhood of £50,000 annually to the Central Fund and, surely, some case can be made in such circumstances for an additional allocation of at least a few thousand pounds.

The Minister mentioned that many letters had been received congratulating the station upon their plays and play production, the general manner of presentation, but I may say that the playwrights and the producers are not altogether satisfied that there is anyone to be congratulated in this respect in Radio Eireann. The usual fee for a play lasting 30 minutes is £1. It used to be £1 1s., but the shilling was taken off. For a play running 60 minutes the fee is £3. Here is what I consider the most ridiculous aspect of the whole thing. A playwright goes in with his play and he is asked if he will type as many copies of the play as there are characters in the play. If he has to do that and then produce the play, he will probably find in the long run that, for the honour of having the play produced by Radio Eireann, he will be actually out of pocket.

Perhaps it might be cheaper to take the Abbey.

Another point is that the plays are not always produced satisfactorily because of the very bad method of employing casts at the station. There is no proper panel. What happens in the majority of cases is that the producer gets a certain very inadequate fee to produce a play, and he must have a certain margin for himself. He gets the most economic cast possible and, nine times out of ten, it is a very poor cast. There is no opportunity given to the producer, except on Sunday mornings, to have the play rehearsed before the microphone. There is a lot to be desired in the putting over of scripts effectively in Radio Eireann.

Most people agree that the Sunday night plays by actors and actresses from the Abbey Theatre, Longford Productions and the Gate Theatre are a very valuable addition to the broadcast programmes, but I am afraid that we are not going to have many more of those. I do not think those players will continue to broadcast on Sunday nights, for the simple reason that successful stage plays suitably adapted for the radio are not being adequately paid for. The station will not offer a successful author anything approaching what he should receive. I have here a letter addressed to Mr. Cranfield, the Secretary of the Writers', Actors', Authors' and Musicians' Association. It is written by Mr. Louis D'Alton, and he says:—

"The facts of the Radio Eireann offer for my play The Money Doesn't Matter——

We might take him at his word.

The letter proceeds:—

"——are as follows. I received a letter from Frank Dermody, the Abbey producer, asking me if I would let the broadcasting people nave this play for a Sunday night broadcast of one hour, stating that the fee I should receive would be £1 1s. 0d.

I had a 'phone conversation with Dermody telling him that the offer was ludicrous and that in any case for other reasons I didn't propose to let them have the play. He said he'd ask them to get in touch with me and next day I received a telegram saying: ‘Dermody Mistaken. Offer Three Guineas—Director, Programmes.'

I replied to the telegram as follows: ‘Cannot let you have The Money Doesn't Matter. Northern Ireland interested. Can let you have To-morrow Never Comes. Fee, Five Guineas.’ I later had a wire saying: ‘Fee Approved for Tomorrow Never Comes’ and later still another letter saying that they had abandoned the idea of doing To-morrow Never Comes, but that they'd be pleased to hear from me if Northern Ireland decided against doing The Money Doesn't Matter.

I give that letter as an instance of the most unbusinesslike manner in which things are conducted at the station. Authors and writers generally have had that experience. You may send in a script for consideration and probably never hear of it again. If you send a script to the B.B.C. you will get by return an acknowledgment. If the play is produced, you will get the script back the day after production. You never get a script back from Radio Eireann. I know of one case where an author presented a radio pantomime, running 60 minutes, for three guineas. A repeat performance was given, but no fee was offered him. After much haggling he succeeded in getting one guinea. Another author complained to me that he received only £6 to produce his own play, have scripts typed and pay all the characters. After all his trouble he found he had gained something like 12/-.

There is another instance where the author was 10/- out of pocket having put on a play and played the characters himself. There is one outstanding example in connection with the Easter Week broadcast where an author-actor spent six months in research of events of Easter Week and wrote scripts containing 22,000 words. These scripts covered seven performances. The author produced them all and played the leading role himself. For all that work he received £10 from the station. The least he would receive from newspapers would be in the neighbourhood of £30.

I have also a complaint from Mr. Jimmy O'Dea and Mr. Harry O'Donovan, addressed to W.A.A.M.A. At Christmas they were offered £10 to broadcast their pantomime, Hansel and Gretel. They put in a request for the sum of 40 guineas which the station refused to pay. The broadcast did not take place, but a most annoying feature of that particular business was that Hansel and Gretel was advertised and included in the broadcast weekly programmes. That is another instance of the unbusinesslike methods adopted in Radio Eireann.

Actors fare no better. An actor receives anything from 10/- to 20/- for a performance. I know a very prominent Abbey actor has received as little as 15/- for taking part in a play broadcast from Radio Eireann. In this connection I would like to mention that doubling parts is very obvious to some listeners. It is very obvious that a certain person is playing two parts and sometimes three parts in a play. The object of that is to save money, but I think that practice should be discontinued. I would again stress that there should be a panel of competent actors at Radio Eireann from which performers for any particular play could be drawn at a fixed fee. I know that the B.B.C., when I had dealings with them, before the war, paid a performer who was playing for the first time £2 10s. in Belfast and, as he became more experienced and was considered competent to continue, the fee was increased to something like £5 or £6 for smaller parts.

There is another point in connection with Sunday night performances by the Abbey players. In my opinion, there are more than six players in the Abbey Theatre who are worth £3 for a performance. At the moment, according to Radio Eireann, only six members of the Abbey Company are entitled to £3 for a performance. Any other member of the Company receives only £1. I understand that a number of players there have refused to take part in the broadcasting of plays because of the very inadequate fee. Consequently, somebody is put into the part in place of an actor who, possibly, has created that part on the stage. The performance suffers as a result. In connection with variety performances, I think a proper chorus and effects and complete variety orchestra should be employed by the station so that we would get first-rate performances.

I may not be very competent to speak in connection with the musical side of the programmes, as I am not very much in touch with the interested people, but I merely give my own observations. Operas are not broadcast from the station. They are broadcast and relayed from theatres, but such relays are never as good, or very seldom as good, as a broadcast from the studio would be. The reason why opera is not broadcast from Radio Eireann is again a matter of finance. The station will not employ an opera chorus. Consequently, there are no broadcasts of opera.

In connection with chamber music combinations, I have a note here citing a case where eight performers received £2 2s. for half an hour, representing 5/2 per player. That is probably the worst case on record in connection with the musical side of the programmes. We hear the radio orchestra's performances praised everywhere. The Minister praised them here to-day. I again say that I think the programmes have improved in the last year, and I think the Abbey Theatre performances and the orchestral performances have added greatly to the prestige of Radio Eireann, but I would point out that the men in the orchestra receive only £5 a week and the women £4 a week. That is for a working week of 24 hours but, in fact, they are called there at very short notice to rehearsals, and would not have time for other work. For performances in theatres or in the Mansion House they receive no extra remuneration.

The Minister has a very full statement from W.A.A.M.A. in connection with the whole business and I would ask him to give our suggested fees very careful consideration. As he said, the station should reflect national culture at its best. I would say again what I have been saying for many years, that you will get national culture at its best only when you are prepared adequately to pay the performers.

I was very glad to hear the Minister state that he contemplates augmenting the size of the orchestra. That is a matter that I adverted to on a couple of previous occasions. I think it would be a very excellent thing that the size of the orchestra should be increased. The Minister has also stated that he contemplates extending the period of broadcasting. In my opinion, that is also a very good idea. I do not think the Irish radio is on the air for a sufficient length of time every day. If those two matters are dealt with I believe it will give very general satisfaction. We ought to realise that the audience of Radio Eireann is twofold— our audience at home and, probably, an equally large, if not larger, audience abroad. It is very essential for the welfare of this State that we should be regarded as a cultured nation that can produce cultured programmes. The time varies in different parts of the world and the Irish radio should be operating for as many hours as possible every day.

During the past year, I think the programmes of Radio Eireann have to a certain extent improved and I think they have given fairly general satisfaction. I do not think we get enough local news. The news is just a rehash, perhaps in different words, of the news that is given from the countries at present at war. It is very proper that such news should be included in our news bulletins but at the same time we ought not to forget the existence of our own country and the events that are taking place in our own country which are of very considerable interest, not only to the people of our own race in England but to our friends and relations abroad. I should like to see a great deal more local news included in our news bulletins.

The Minister has very properly said that we had some very interesting lectures by horticultural and other experts during the year, but there is a very important matter which, incidentally, arises out of the emergency which should be explained to the general public. It is that now that we have legislation by decree under the Emergency Powers Act, we get up in the morning to find that the laws have been completely changed and altered by some order made the night before. It is an axiom of our law that every citizen is supposed to know and understand the law, and that, if he breaks it, it is no defence to say that he did not know what the law was. I suggest that it would be very helpful to the vast bulk of the people who wish to obey the law and to assist and cooperate in these hard times, if they had fully explained to them, in simple and adequate language, by some man who can put it in simple language over the air, exactly what changes in the law have been recently effected. As I say, the law changes very much from day to day and I do not suppose we here appreciate or understand the changes taking place. Even lawyers in their own sphere are unable to keep up with the changes, and it is very hard to expect that the public will be able to appreciate them. Some explanations about the changes that take place should be given, and, if possible, about the reasons for such changes. I think it would help to create a spirit of citizenship in the country and do away with a considerable amount of misunderstanding and enable people to prepare for future contingencies.

There is also the question of propaganda. We are a very small nation, but we have as forcible a weapon for putting our point of view not only before our own people but before those of other countries as the largest nation in the world, because the voice of the broadcaster in this country is equal to the voice of the loudest broadcaster in the largest and most powerful country in the world. I think we are falling behind in that respect. If it is worth while for other nations to broadcast in the Irish tongue, I think it is equally worth while for us to send our views abroad. I do not mean in any offensive spirit, but we have a case to make, and if we go down to the Library and look at some of the current publications in America and other countries, we will find that we are losing the race, so far as propaganda is concerned. The Irish point of view, the point of view which the majority of the citizens of the country hold, with regard to events happening in the world, is not being properly put before the world, and particularly before the English-speaking world. There is one way, and one effective way, in which that can be done, that is, by the sensible and inoffensive use of our broadcasting system. I think it would be a help to our friends and wellwishers abroad and I think it is something which the Government might adopt and would be wise in adopting.

We have here a distinct national grievance, and the fact that hostilities are at present going on in the world is no reason why that distinct national grievance should be allowed to die a natural death. It is probably one of the reasons why we are in a certain position with regard to the hostilities taking place to-day. I think that our friends and relations, and the Irish people generally abroad, should not be placed in the position of having to uphold the political point of view of this country without any assistance from propaganda here. The voice of men who can put the case against the partition of this country will be as loud as that of anybody who adopts the opposite point of view. If we sing low and sing dumb now, we are missing a very great opportunity. I have advocated that this form of propaganda should be indulged in on practically every occasion on which this Estimate came before the House. It is a very important matter, and it is one which, if properly dealt with across the air, should not give offence to anybody, but we are entitled to put our point of view. I am afraid that point of view is being neglected, and that, so far as public opinion in a large part of the English-speaking world is concerned, it is being moulded against us, and it is being moulded against us for the simple reason that we sit dumb when we have a weapon at our disposal to combat the agitation against us in that respect.

I should like to add my voice to what Deputy Hickey has said as to the nature of the news we get from Radio Éireann. I referred to this matter briefly last year. As Deputy Hickey has said, very important Irish news is invariably placed at the end of the programme. Practically everybody listens in to the B.B.C. news at 6 o'clock, or 5 o'clock as it is now, and hears everything that is to be heard about the war. Then, at 6.45, when we tune in to the Irish station, we get practically the same news, while important Irish news is left until the end of the programme. Nobody wants to listen to a re-hash of news heard on the English radio an hour or an hour and a half before. I suggested on the last occasion that Irish news ought to be placed first. Sometimes there are important announcements by different Ministries which affect the lives of the people, and we often have to listen for 20 minutes to a re-hash of the English war news before hearing these announcements.

On the subject of news on the Irish radio, I want to complain about the shortness of the time given to the views of the Opposition Parties in this House. Invariably, we hear that "The Taoiseach, in answer to a question..." and then it goes on for about ten minutes. We hear that "The Minister for Supplies, in answer to a question ..." and that goes on for ten minutes, but there is not a word about the person on this side of the House who asks an important question on behalf of some or all of his constituents. Especially now, when reports of Dáil proceedings in the newspapers are, of necessity, so much curtailed, I think we are not asking too much in requesting the Minister to have mentioned the name of the person asking the question and not to give everything to one Party, while giving very little, and sometimes nothing at all, to Fine Gael, Labour and Independent members.

I suggest that that is very unfair. Again, let us take the case of a demonstration being held in some part of the country on behalf of the Local Defence Force or the Local Security Force, where you have Deputy Mulcahy and Deputy Norton, let us say, on the same platform with the Taoiseach. A half an hour will be devoted to what the Taoiseach said, while Deputy Norton and Deputy Mulcahy will be dismissed with about three minutes. I think that is very unfair, especially when we are being asked for co-operation and unity during this crisis, and I do hope that the Minister will see that that kind of thing will be remedied at once.

Another thing that I have to complain about is the short time that is given to Mr. Seán O Ceallacháin when he is giving the results of Irish games on a Sunday night. Up to some time ago, his news used to be put on at 10.40, but now it is usually on at 10.50 or even 10.55, and that is very unfair. It is impossible to give the proper results of the various Gaelic games that are played all over this country in the short time given to him on a Sunday night. In that connection, I am glad to notice that the new director of Radio Eireann is a man who, in former days, figured very prominently on the Gaelic field, and I sincerely hope that he will see that the games of which he was such a splendid exponent in former times will get a better show in the future.

There is another matter to which I wish to call attention, and that is the announcement of birthday greetings from Radio Eireann. I have had complaints from various people saying that they had sent requests to Radio Eireann to broadcast greetings on a certain date, but the broadcast never took place. I suggest that that is very discourteous, and not alone did the announcements not appear but there was no answer or excuse given to the people concerned as to why they did not appear. We all know that most, if not all, of these greetings come from children, and we can imagine the expectancy with which they wait for these greetings to be announced, and their disappointment if they are not announced.

Deputy McCann has referred to the fact that the fees paid by Radio Eireann are small. I agree with that, but he is mostly concerned with people in Dublin, and I suggest that, bad as the position in Dublin is, it is infinitely worse for the people in the provinces, because the fees offered to them make it prohibitive for them to come to Dublin at all. I suggest that there are artistes in the country just as good as any in Dublin, if they got half the chance that the Dublin people get.

I know of a case recently of a male voice choir-an excellent choir—that wanted to have an opportunity of broadcasting from Radio Eireann, and they were asked to come to Dublin for an audition. Did anybody ever hear of such nonsense as expecting 20 or 30 working-class people to come to Dublin merely for an audition? It would be impossible for them to do so. Surely it should be possible to arrange for an audition to take place in the district from which such people come. I have nothing else to say, except that I hope that these matters I have mentioned will be attended to. I am one of those who suggested last year that there should be a news broadcast on Sundays earlier than the 10 o'clock news, and I am grateful to the Minister for having arranged for that. I think that there should be a further broadcast at midday. After all, 6.45 and 10 o'clock are very close together, and it might be better to have a broadcast at 1.45 or 2 o'clock instead of at 6.45.

I think the Dáil is grateful to Deputy McCann for taking us behind the scenes, and I think Deputy Corish is perhaps a little bit unfair when he speaks of Deputy McCann not thinking about country artistes, because I think the Deputy specially made a point about the disabilities under which country artistes lie and how very inadequate are the fees for these people. However, the price chipping and chopping, to which Deputy McCann referred, inclines me to suggest to the Minister, in his capacity as Minister for Posts and Telegraphs, that he might ask the engineering department to look over the wires a bit and see whether wires to the Broadcasting Station have not got tangled up with the wires to the cattle market, because if things were tightened up a little bit in that regard, it might permit of more suitable arrangements.

Deputies Esmonde, Corish and Hickey referred to a number of matters that, to my mind, were rather mixed together: first, the question of broadcasting on matters that would affect and strengthen the civic spirit of our people, and in the second place, broadcasting in such a way as would keep up the prestige of this country here notwithstanding all the warring propaganda in the world. I think it very important that the broadcasting of news and of events, and the general type of broadcasting in words that comes from this country, should do that. The reason why we do not get broadcasting of that particular type is that, according to the people who control the broadcasting station—that is the Ministry—there is only one group of people in this country that either represent anything in this country or do anything in this country, and they are the Ministers, and that as far as the broadcasting of any ideas on specially narrow points, such as Deputy Esmonde speaks about, there is only one person in this country that is Ireland, only one voice in this country that is Ireland, and that is the Taoiseach. Instead of having a picture of the life of this country under present circumstances, and of the thoughts and expressions of various people in this country, going out across the radio—something that would tell outside people, with clearness and understanding, of the difficulties we have to contend with and of life generally in this country at the present time—our propaganda is narrowed down to a few official pronouncements by the Taoiseach, who is supposedly the head of the State. I would ask the Minister to look at the second broadcast yesterday evening in connection with Parliamentary Questions, in relation to what Deputy Corish speaks about. He can go back farther than that if he likes, but it would only strengthen his conviction. Let him just read the broadcast last night. A number of questions were raised here yesterday by Deputies. I begin with Deputy Alfie Byrne, and end with him, but he raised very important questions. Long answers to these questions were given: it was the Minister said this and the Minister said that, and the Taoiseach said this and the Taoiseach said that; and you got a kind of picture of the Ministry being up in the national bell tower giving information out, as if they were the only people in the place, as if they were the Oireachtas almost, and as if the country was being carried on by a regular dictatorship.

That was the picture you had instead of showing that the information that was given yesterday was brought out, and only brought out, because you had representatives of the people here representing various classes and various districts, interested in their various districts and in the various problems of the country, and using the Oireachtas here to point out to Ministers that information was required on these questions and that, without the various Deputies being here to elicit that information, the country would not get it.

We cannot be brought behind the scenes, even to the extent that Deputy McCann brought us in regard to the artistes and their connection with the broadcasting station, by anybody but the Minister with regard to the Oireachtas and its connection with broadcasting. I want to urge that there is only one way that will rectify the position that exists in the broadcasting station with regard to the picture that is given over the station of the work of the Oireachtas, and that is by the Minister reverting to the practice that existed to a larger extent heretofore of placing in the Library that part of the news that is broadcast dealing with the work of the Oireachtas. There was a time when the whole of the news that was broadcast was put in the Oireachtas Library. I think we ought to insist that that part of the broadcast that refers to the work of the Oireachtas should be placed here in the Library for Deputies to see. While waiting for that, I would ask the Minister: who is responsible for the system by which, in regard to Parliamentary Questions, no reference at all is made to the Deputies who put these questions, who draw attention to the important matters referred to in these questions, and who elicit the answers? If we are to interpret the Government mind from the leading articles in the Irish Press, then the Government also regard people who put down Parliamentary Questions as people who are looking for notoriety. Individual members of the House have been ticked off and chastised through leading articles in the Irish Press because they put down questions, on the grounds that they had adopted a technique of looking for notoriety. Would the Minister like to say something on that?

Does the Deputy consider that poor Ministers are never ticked off?

It would be interesting to hear some of the tickings off that Ministers from time to time give editors, but we cannot go into that. I do think, to use the words of Deputy Corish, that it is not only unfair—meaning unfair to individual members of Parliament—but is very disruptive and destructive of a public spirit in the country. It is essential that the public should realise that there is a Parliament sitting here and that information is only given out here because individual members put down questions in regard to particular matters for the purpose of eliciting information on them. I think it is a very dangerous practice, on the part of the Government, to smother up the fact that there is a Parliament here. I know they do it consciously, so that, with Deputy Corish, I would ask the Minister to explain to the House who is responsible for the present procedure, and why it is adopted. He should do that in order to meet our complaints in the matter. Any broadcasts in relation to the work of the Oireachtas should, I suggest, be filed in the Library.

I entirely sympathise with the point raised about the broadcasting of Emergency Orders. I never see an Emergency Order—I see several every day—that I do not feel tempted to put down a Parliamentary question in regard to that Order, to ask (1) the reasons for the issue of it, (2) the object of it, and (3) to state in simple terms what the Order is about. I think it would help materially to have an Order respected and acted on in the country if a simple statement were given of the causative reasons for the issue of it, the objective reason for it, and a simple statement of what the requirements of the Order are. We have recently had Order after Order issued for the closing of mills in various parts of the country. I do not know whether there was ever, say, a preliminary warning given on the radio as to the reasons that existed why it might be necessary to close down mills. I think if a simple statement of any objectionable things that were happening or that were likely to happen were broadcast, setting out why they had to be stopped and what steps it would be necessary to take in order to stop them, it might have prevented the confusion that has arisen in various parts of the country through the shutting down of mills.

The Minister, in dealing with his general outlook of what he would like his programme to be, indicated that he had a fairly sound ideal, and was prepared to try to work towards it. I was pleased to hear him suggest that, on the musical side at any rate, he realised that the work of the broadcasting station was a criterion of the standard which our orchestral work had attained, and, in regard to Irish music, of the standard to which it was being developed: that it gave us a means of seeing what the limitations were and what improvements were necessary. I think we must all approve of the hope that he has in mind that he will be able to do better even on the musical side. The Minister spoke so much about that, that I would like to raise especially the question of Irish. I think there is one way in which broadcasting through the Irish language is lacking and deficient. At the present time, I think that can only be made up by instituting a regular series of Irish readings. There are no broadcastings in a systematic way that people can tune in to them at known hours which give you in Irish language talks or Irish language readings a conception of the vigour and the vitality of the language as a literary medium. In various parts of the country there are many people in their homes who have no daily contact with spoken Irish and no opportunity of hearing vigorous Irish falling on their ears to help them in their study of the language and enable them to get a better grip of it. It is essential to have a training of the ear, particularly for people who are learners, if they are ever to develop a thorough spoken power of the language.

A very large number of books are being published and have been published that are practically unknown to a very great number of people in the country. There is an enormous amount of material available from which very vigorous, very dramatic and very good literary readings could be taken for, say, ten minutes or a quarter of an hour on three days a week and on Sundays. It would be very easy to select voices of a first-class type that would be capable of doing justice to the language and to the reading matter that is available. I seriously suggest to the Minister that it is as important to use the radio as a test of how far we are going and have gone in the development of the Irish language, and of the utilisation of it as a literary medium—to get an appreciation of that—as it is to do that for Irish music. I strongly suggest to the Minister that he should go into that matter. He has plenty of time on the radio, plenty of material and plenty of fine voices that can be got. These are the only points that I wish to deal with. In conclusion, I would again direct the attention of the Minister to the Party use of the radio in the way in which it has been referred to by Deputy Corish, and in the way that I have spoken of it.

It seems to me that it is about time the Minister, who is the responsible person in this matter, should sit up and take notice of the complaints made by Deputy McCann in regard to the unfair treatment meted out to authors, actors and producers of plays by the officials of the radio. Deputy McCann has made similar complaints to this on every occasion on which this Estimate has come forward for discussion, and I think it not merely unfair but rather careless on the part of the Minister repeatedly to ignore these complaints coming from such a well-informed source. It seems that not only has the position not improved in regard to this matter but that it has actually deteriorated. One would expect that an institution like Radio Eireann would concentrate its efforts on encouraging native talent, encouraging people to write and produce plays for the radio. But the fees offered are simply scandalous. How any author or producer would lower his dignity to such an extent as to submit a play for the fees offered is beyond my understanding. I must say, however, that, so far as my judgment goes, the programmes of Radio Eireann in general seem to have improved. There is one particular item which the Minister and his officials are to be congratulated upon and that is "Question Time". It is an item of very wide popular appeal, and the compere, I am sure, must be regarded as an outstanding personality on the radio. I do not know what fee he is paid, but if the standard applied to him is anything like that applied to authors and producers, he must be worth ten times what he is getting.

They change the compere so often that they must not be paying him very well.

There is one matter upon which I would like some information from the Minister. About two years ago there was a very interesting competition called the John McCormack competition. That seems to have ceased altogether. It is a matter upon which I hope the Minister will be able to give us some information. I have the same fault to find with the news bulletins as most of the other Deputies who have spoken. It is undoubtedly a fact that the war news broadcast from Radio Eireann is nothing more than a synopsis of that broadcast by the British stations and perhaps on occasions by German stations. The news bulletin from Radio Eireann is given about an hour after the bulletin from these other stations and can be of little or no interest. If the Minister is not prepared to alter the time of the news bulletins, I suggest that he should omit the war news from the bulletins altogether, especially if there is any urgent necessity for restricting the time given to the news bulletins, because there is no doubt that the time allocated to the broadcasting of local news is altogether inadequate. The news is far too scanty in that respect.

I have, too, the same fault to find as other Deputies with regard to the broadcasting of the proceedings of this House. These broadcasts have definitely a Fianna Fáil propagandist colour about them. Why should the name of a Deputy who asks a question on a matter of wide public importance be suppressed in the broadcast? Is it for the purpose of saving time? I do not think the Minister can reasonably contend that that is the reason. There can be only one reason for it, that it is the desire of the Government or of the Minister to limit the publicity given to the Opposition Parties to the greatest possible extent. These news bulletins have a kind of unilateral characteristic, inasmuch as they are really more in the nature of Fianna Fáil Party propaganda than of a genuine effort to broadcast the proceedings of this House.

Then in regard to public announcements, I understand that on quite a number of occasions Government announcements have been withheld from the evening papers until after they are broadcast over the radio, not because of a desire merely to have these announcements broadcast, but because the evening papers are in competition with the Government organ. That is an absurd state of affairs. With regard to the news bulletins from Radio Éireann, I should like to impress on the Minister—and this matter has been brought to his attention before—that Radio Éireann is not the property of the Fianna Fáil Party but the property of the State and, consequently, should be used for State and national purposes and not merely for Party purposes. I would again emphasise the necessity for the Minister doing something for the people on whose behalf Deputy McCann has made representations. So far as we on this side of the House are concerned, it is refreshing to hear a Deputy of the Fianna Fáil Party criticise the Minister in charge of a State Department. At least it can be said that his criticism was reasoned and constructive, and it is about time that the Minister paid some attention to it.

There is just one matter to which I wish to draw the attention of the Minister, and that is in connection with the peculiar hardship inflicted on a certain number of our people owing to the shortage of high tension batteries. I know that in this connection I am knocking at an open door in seeking the Minister's sympathy. In his statement the Minister expressed his regret that it was not possible to forgo the collection of wireless licence fees from such persons. But there is one aspect of the question to which I should like him to direct his attention. As I understand it, the production of high tension batteries is very limited. I am aware, however, that there are very widespread complaints throughout the country that the distribution of these batteries is not carried out equitably; that the production of them is in the hands of a small monopoly and that there is not a satisfactory distribution to the retail agents throughout the country. From personal experience I know that if a person in a country district wants a high tension battery the only way he can obtain it is in the black market at a very exorbitant price. It is possible that some of these high tension batteries produced in this country are not being distributed through the recognised channels, but are being diverted to the black market.

That is a very unsatisfactory state of affairs and I know the Minister will look into it carefully. The people who suffer most in this connection are the aged and invalid people who reside in remote country districts. Such people have had a new amenity brought into their homes of which, up to a few years ago, they were quite unaware. Now that amenity is suddenly taken from them and their loss is a very serious one. As a result, their lives are much more gloomy than before they obtained experience of the wireless. It might be possible for the Minister to arrange for the distribution of a limited supply of high-tension batteries to people who are permanent invalids. I know this is a matter——

For another Minister.

——for another Minister, but, having regard to the fact that the Minister has been unable to relieve these people of the burden imposed on them in regard to wireless licences, and the fact that he has a very deep sympathy for them because of their loss, I am sure he will take up this matter with the Department of Supplies and see if it is possible to divert a small quantity of batteries to the people in rural Ireland who are permanently invalided, who are confined to their homes, and who have no intercourse with the outside world except through the radio.

Other Deputies have referred to the news service. I think the news we get from Radio Eireann is very disappointing. What we look for, mainly, is Irish news. The activities of the various armies and air forces of the world could come second. It would greatly improve the service if that were done. A good many things occur in this country which might appear to the broadcasting officials to be of little importance, but they are, nevertheless, of very great interest to the ordinary people of the country. We would like to see somebody in the broadcasting department with a better sense of news value than those people who are preparing the news broadcasts at the present time.

There is another matter which has often occurred to me, but I have never discussed it with anybody in authority to express an opinion. It has frequently appeared to me to be rather strange that there are no regular broadcasts of religious services from Radio Eireann. I think there should be a short service daily broadcast from our station. In the B.B.C. and in other broadcasting stations there is a certain amount of time allowed each day for such a service, and there is no reason why that example should not be followed in this country. Perhaps the Minister will take that matter up with the ecclesiastical authorities and have it fully considered.

I am very glad that Deputy Hannigan mentioned Question Time. I think his praise of the regular compere of that feature was very well deserved. Unless I am greatly mistaken, that particular gentleman and a number of other Irish variety artistes are at present performing for the B.B.C.—and it is a very successful performance, too. So far as I know, this is the second occasion on which they have done it. The compere to whom Deputy Hannigan was referring was Mr. Linnane, and he and the well-known Jimmy O'Dea have been broadcasting from the B.B.C. It was a first-class performance, absolutely excellent, and it appears to be as popular in England and elsewhere as any of their performances here. It is in that very type of performance that Radio Eireann is slightly lacking.

So far as the production of plays is concerned, as Deputy McCann says, the plays which have been performed on Sunday nights by the Abbey Theatre players and Longford Productions are really first class. When Deputy McCann was criticising the production of plays, I was beginning to feel annoyed, because I thought he was including those productions. Of course, he was not doing so. I am quite satisfied that the Sunday night productions of the Abbey Theatre and the Longford Production players were absolutely first class. I am quite satisfied that the variety we get from Radio Eireann is not funny enough; we do not get enough entertaining matter.

To my mind, the reason why Question Time is so popular is because of the manner in which this particular compere handles it. A person gets as many laughs out of Question Time— which is not necessarily an amusing feature in itself—as he would out of the average half-hour variety programme. Question Time has become a really lively, enjoyable part of the programme. At this particular period, during this war, I suggest that if the leaning is on any side it should be on the side of lightness rather than heaviness.

So far as the news is concerned, I suggest no war communiqués should be published unless, having examined them carefully, some statement is found that is not contradicted.

Mr. Brennan

Then we would get no news at all.

As matters stand, we get very little beyond what happens in Libya, Russia or somewhere else in the world. If the office boy at Radio Eireann was given the news as it came in and told to discard all contradicted items and include in the news service only the uncontradicted matter, it would be much more satisfactory. I do not agree that putting purely local news first will prove satisfactory. You will not get any three people to agree on what should be put first, even as regards local news. One person will be anxious to listen to what is said in the Dáil; another wants to get the stock market reports; another person will wait to hear the prices of fat cattle, and then there are large numbers who are interested only in sporting results. Can you imagine the feelings of a family who have sent a greyhound up to Dublin to run in Shelbourne Park on Saturday night, waiting for the news at ten minutes past ten? They have to listen to Government announcements, all about the war in Libya, in Russia, in the Pacific or elsewhere, Emergency Orders and items of Irish news, and then, when they are practically prostrate with excitement or fear, they get the greyhound-racing results.

Mr. Brennan

And they hear that their dog did not win.

I merely make that point to show that, so far as local news is concerned, one will find it very difficult to lay out a proper method of presentation. There is certainly too much war news and it is really annoying to hear it on the radio. I think the less we hear about the war the better. I suggest that it should be cut down to the absolute minimum. The people in this country have not that terrible interest in war news which the manner of its presentation might tend to represent. From my vague memory of the last war, at least something used to be reported, but now nothing worth hearing is reported in the various communiqués.

I was glad to hear Deputy Hannigan referring to the John McCormack competition. I know that in County Cork inquiries are always being made about it and I shall be glad if the Minister will clear up the situation. There is an extraordinary suspicion that the competition was not completed because the bulk of the section winners for the particular voice groups—certainly for the soprano and tenor groups— happened to come from County Cork, and that, no matter what happened, the winner was going to be from County Cork. People have been inquiring and many people assume that the war had something to do with it. The competition produced some exceptionally good voices and people got an opportunity of performing over the radio and being heard who possibly would not have been discovered otherwise. As it did discover good voices it is a great pity that it was not proceeded with, that it was allowed to go a certain distance and was then completely forgotten.

There is one other tribute I should like to pay to the broadcasting station. Quite a number of people have mentioned it to me. One of the best and most interesting programmes and one which people in the country appreciate very much, particularly those who have to remain in their homes during the day, is the midday programme of records. I have heard people say that the programme is first class and always very well balanced and that the types of records selected on different days could not be better.

There is one other small item I would like to mention. When broadcasts are being made in Irish, particularly of plays or dialogues, it always strikes me—and a number of people have mentioned it to me—that the performers have the habit of speaking in the most mournful tone of voice. People who do not understand Irish, or who have only a smattering, get the impression that a dirge is being broadcast. I think that is a justifiable criticism. Even when people broadcast conversational pieces in Irish or read in Irish, they seem to speak in the most mournful tone. Of course, there are some who speak very well. I think some Deputies would agree with me in that. I have heard Deputies mention it. That does not apply to the majority of Irish speakers but that is the impression one receives over the radio. Whether it is a result of stage fright, or not, I do not know. I do not know sufficient about the language to make that criticism from myself, but it is a complaint I have heard, and I think it is quite justified.

Mr. Brennan

I suppose there is hardly any other Estimate in which you find the individual opinion coming out so much as in this. We are really expressing individual opinions. We are hardly expressing the views of the people because, as Deputy Linehan and other Deputies have stated, there is such a wide variety of opinions and people have such markedly individual views on this subject, it would be impossible to express what might be regarded as the general view. I have heard people finding fault with the broadcasting of news. Personally, I find no fault with the news programme. I think it is presented in as good a way as possible. I am sure that Deputy Linehan or any other Deputy would be very annoyed if he did not get the news.

Of what use is it when you cannot know whether it is true or not?

Mr. Brennan

Notwithstanding the fact that we may discount a lot of it, I think we would be very annoyed if we did not get it.

We get it an hour before the broadcast from Radio Éireann.

Mr. Brennan

Last year we pleaded here for Sunday news and we got it. That was a step in the right direction. There is a matter which I think demands attention. This Estimate is not a matter of expenditure, it is a matter of revenue. We are getting revenue of £115,000 as against expenditure of £66,000 odd. It has been stated to me that artists engaged by Radio Éireann are not paid a reasonable fee for their services, that as a result, we very often turn down good artists, that artists who have to come from the country must come at their own expense and that we are very mean in dealing with these people. If that is true, and if our revenue is £115,000 while expenditure is much less, there is no excuse for it. We cannot hope to make the programmes a success unless we are prepared to be reasonable, at least, in these matters. I know we cannot compete with the B.B.C. or other big corporations, but we should be reasonable. I am afraid we have not been reasonable in that regard. At least, I was told some time ago that artists—some good singers—who were asked to come to Dublin, if they had to pay their way up and pay an hotel bill, would be out of pocket. That is not fair and should not be allowed.

Last year, I drew attention to what I thought would be a very good idea, that is the continuation of talks on agriculture and gardening. During the Spring period we had some very interesting talks on agriculture. They should at least have opened the minds of everybody to how much good can be done by wireless broadcasts. They were very interesting talks and many people derived a lot of information from them. I have always felt we might go further. I am afraid that, traditionally, we are not "law-minded" in this country. We have the tradition of being "anti-law" and I suppose that is not unreasonable, having regard to our history. In this country there are a good many Acts on the Statute Book which possibly people do not like to comply with and do not care whether they comply with them or not. Take for instance the Eggs Act. We have a lot of prosecutions for dirty eggs down the country. I feel that a lot of women in the country would prefer to go outside the law and not go to the trouble of washing the eggs. They do not realise that they are in competition with other people for the egg market. Wireless could be availed of to bring the facts home to the people, to show them that there is a prize for proper methods of production and that instead of winning the prize, we lower the value of our products in the world market by careless methods. We should make use of wireless for the purpose of bringing home to the people that it is their business to obey the law of this country and that the laws are passed for the welfare of the country. Such talks would, in my opinion, be very beneficial.

Mention has been made here of the programmes generally. I would like to pay a compliment in regard to the choice of music. I think it is very good. There is another matter which I mentioned here last year. I do not think I impressed anybody but I am still of the same opinion. It is with regard to the news in Irish. I think it is not good for the Irish language to have the news in Irish immediately before the news in English. I am talking as a man of experience, who has a family who have been educated in primary and secondary schools through the Irish language and have not been hurt by it as some people think many children have been hurt by it. My children understand the news in Irish and, to a certain extent, I understand it myself, but it would require an effort for me to understand it. Consequently, because I know I will get the news in English at 10.10 without any effort, I am not going to listen to the news in Irish. At least, it will not catch my ear. It is immaterial whether I make out the news in Irish because I will get it in English. That applies to most people who have a certain amount of Irish and who could make out the news in Irish if it were given an hour or an hour and a half earlier. When followed by the news in English, it does not require an effort by anybody and it is not appreciated.

If I were endeavouring to do something to kill a language, I would put on the week's news in that language on Sunday evening, as is done at present with Irish. I think there is nothing in the world so silly. I do not know if there is any person in Ireland who wants to hear the week's news in any language. Nobody listens or wants to listen to it, except an enthusiast for the Irish language who might be anxious to hear in what form it was put. News is stale at present when it is an hour old, not to speak of a rehash of the week's news. I think it is a waste of time and doing more harm than good to the Irish language. I expressed these views last year and I say here again to-day that I am still convinced that both these arrangements are wrong, so far as the Irish language is concerned.

Reference was made to the "Question Time" feature and to the plays in Irish. So far as I can gather, they are certainly very popular. I have not seen or heard of anything so appreciated by the young people as plays in Irish. They all want to hear them, and I do not know of any school child, with even a fair knowledge of Irish, who does not listen intently to them. From whatever experience I have in that respect, if I wanted to propagate the Irish language through the medium of the wireless, I would have a good many plays in Irish. So far as the other plays in English are concerned—plays by the Abbey Players and others—they were certainly very much appreciated, and I think they are a very good type of programme.

We are a small country and we are not able to provide the fare which big corporations can provide, but, on the whole, we are not doing badly. I do think, however, that if we engage artistes and invite people up from the country to perform, we ought at least to see that they get enough to cover their expenses. That has not been the case in the past and I think it is a scandal.

So many points have been raised that I hope no one will take objection if I do not deal with them all. I can say, by way of reassuring Deputies, that the Official Reports will be very carefully examined. These debates are very valuable from our point of view, because we often get very useful suggestions from them, and I should like to express the thanks of the station for any good suggestions made. As Deputy Brennan says, a good deal of the discussion is individual. If one wanted to be malicious, one could take the views of one person and cancel them out against the views of someone else. Personally, I am rather inclined to agree with Deputy Brennan as against Deputy Corish on the question of news. I have heard it said from other countries, as well as from Ireland, that the news, as we present it, is very objective, that we give both sides and give people an opportunity of forming their own opinions. Naturally, the belligerents producing the news give it from their own angle, and it is very difficult to find exactly where the truth is, but part of the interest in reading the newspapers or listening to radio stations at present is the attempt one makes to see where the truth lies between them, in order to get oneself correctly informed on what is going on. I do not think we could possibly give the station a direction not to give general world news because, very unfortunately, people have to be more interested in war news than one would like them to be.

I did not ask the Minister to do that. I asked him to put the Irish news first.

The Deputy referred to our news as a rehash of the English news. I do not think that is fair to our news editor and news staff.

The Minister need not take that in its usual application, but to a great extent that is what we get.

I think it is very well-edited news. There is nothing political in this at all—the station on the whole is very unpolitical—and from the point of view of general world news, I think they do their work extremely well. I would remind the Deputy that it is not everybody who listens in to other stations. People do rely very largely on our station for the news.

With regard to the reports of the Dáil, these always present a fair amount of difficulty. It is a question of time and rush, but whenever the matter was raised and we examined it, we found that really the Opposition Deputies did get a fair show, and it is our object and intention in regard to debates to give all Parties a reasonable share in the short time at our disposal; but—and this applies especially at present—where there are very serious questions to be answered and where the direction must come from the Government—no matter who the Government is, and it can scarcely be regarded as political—the balance must fall a little towards a statement from the Taoiseach or Minister giving a clear view of a particular aspect of policy, what the exact facts are, and so on.

Surely it would not be too much to say: "In answer to Deputy So-and-So"? Why suppress the Deputy's name?

I am sure it is not conscious or deliberate.

It must be that they try to make the Deputy unconscious.

What I would assume is that, on hearing that news, people interested will see in the paper who the Deputy was, and I think we can rely on the particular Deputy to see that his local paper will report him properly.

We have to rely on Radio Éireann, too. Surely that is not too much to ask?

I can assure Deputies that there is no intention on our part to suppress the names of any Deputies.

We want something applying to the future.

Will the Minister give an assurance that that defect will be remedied?

I will not prophesy anything.

It is a very unsatisfactory situation.

Listen-in and you will see how good we shall be.

Party propaganda.

That is not fair to the station. If the Deputy will give me any specific instance, I will have it examined.

Last night.

Last night. Deputy Byrne yesterday asked the Minister for Supplies a number of questions relating to the rationing of clothing and the Deputy's name was suppressed, or was not given on the wireless. If the Minister is in a balloon, we are not.

The Minister, wherever he is, must be allowed to conclude the debate.

It is the first time I heard that Deputy Byrne did not get as much advertisement as he looked for. Deputy Byrne referred to the need for a hall, and I should like to say in reference to that and to what another Deputy said about the production of opera in the studio, that the studio facilities are not such as to enable opera to be produced there. It is small and can become very crowded, but I am aware, from frequent representations which have been made to me, of the opinion widely held as to the need for a hall in Dublin in which the public could be given the fullest possible opportunities of attending in person broadcast performances of high-class orchestral music, symphony concerts and so on—a need emphasised by the success of the public concerts last winter to which I have already referred. I appreciate, of course, the difficulties of building, or otherwise procuring, such a hall in existing conditions, but the need should, I think, be recognised as one demanding urgent attention.

Deputy McCann referred to fees. My attitude, since I became responsible for the service, was, at first, that, on account of the war, we had to be satisfied with a reduction of our expenses, but, on examining the matter closely, I felt the urgent necessity of asking for more money for fees and for the improvement of music. I realise that other countries are spending enormous sums of money on their radio production—as if almost they regarded the expression of their national cultures as part of their defence programme and as part of their war propaganda. The amount of money they spent was very great, and I felt that we should be entitled to spend a fair amount, too, and I am glad to say that the Government has made a decision and I hope to bring in a Supplementary Estimate in the autumn which will give the station some more money and will enable us to pay more adequate fees to the artistes and improve the music as well.

It was interesting to notice, in connection with many of the suggestions that were made, that we are really being asked to assume the functions of the Department of Education in regard to teaching children to have a better spirit in the matter of the destruction of property, and so on. We did have lectures on civics from time to time during school hours. Up to 1940-41 they were given between 2.30 and 3 o'clock, but now the hours are between 6 and 6.40, and sometimes we have school talks on citizenship and civics. In that connection, I am very glad that Deputies are pleased with the talks on agriculture. There, again, one of our difficulties is that the people who are really expert on agriculture are not the type of people who have either the time or the inclination to come forward and help, and we have to rely largely, therefore, on officials. It would be very useful, however, if people who have not the time or are not willing to talk themselves, although they are experts, would write to us and make any suggestions they think proper, and our own experts would then be willing and able to put these suggestions into a shape suitable for putting on the air.

It was also suggested that we should give, shall I call it, a kind of codification or explanation of the various Orders that are made from time to time. It would be very difficult to do that, I am afraid, because Orders of that sort are very complicated, and you would really need to have them in writing before you. Apart from the official announcements which are at present given on the radio, I do not know whether we could do very much more with regard to that matter. Sometimes, we have lawyers who give us talks on law, and perhaps we might draw their attention to those matters with a view to seeing whether they could treat a number of these Orders in a way that would be presentable. I shall have the matter examined, but I could not undertake to make any extension at the moment. Then, again, some Deputies occasionally ask us about the broadcasting of religious service. So far as that is concerned, we are always at the disposal of the Church or religious authorities. If they express any particular wish to broadcast services we are always at their disposal to do so. My own experience, however, is that these should not be too long, because people will not listen in to them if they go on too long. But we are always willing to facilitate the religious authorities.

With regard to requests, we get an average of 70 requests per day, and it is almost impossible for us to deal with them. Owing to the present restriction of hours, and so on, it is very hard to deal with them, and our tendency is rather to confine the requests in future to hospitals. Of course, electricity supply is a matter that we have to take very seriously into consideration. We have been asked to look into the matter, but I think we could obviate the necessity of shortening our hours even further if the listening public were to be more selective and not use their radio sets promiscuously. Formerly, some people would turn on the radio and leave it on all day. My suggestion is that people should listen to special items that they want to listen to, and then turn the radio off. Those who have a battery service would lengthen the life of the batteries in that way, and in other cases it would mean a saving of electricity. Although it would only be a small saving in each individual case, still in the aggregate it would probably mean a far larger economy in electricity than if we were obliged to reduce our time on the air. I think I had better leave the other matters to be dealt with later.

What is the actual policy with regard to birthday greetings?

We have never gone into that as an item on our programme. I do not know whether we should go in for it as a general practice, but I will have the matter examined.

It was the practice for some time, and some people would like to know what is the position now.

Apparently, it was dropped, but I shall have the matter examined.

What is the Minister's reaction with regard to the John McCormack competition?

Really, it is a matter that is outside our control, and we are not in a position to settle it. I can assure the Deputy, however, that we did not refuse the prize because the winner was from Cork.

Question put and agreed to.
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