Dáil Éireann debate -
Friday, 17 Jul 1942

Vol. 88 No. 8

Committee on Finance. - Vote 76—Personal Injuries (Civilians) Compensation (Resumed).

Minister for Finance (Mr. O Ceallaigh)

I said last night that the draft schemes for the services referred to by Deputy Mulcahy and, I think, Deputy Byrne, have been sent to several Departments in the last few weeks. I think they have had them at least a month. We have got back comments from the A.R.P. section, and I understand that we are prepared to adopt one or two amendments that they suggested to us, and, as far as they are concerned, I think the scheme is almost ready for publication, but we have to wait to get the views of the Minister for Defence so far as the L.D.F. is concerned, and of the Minister for Justice in relation to the scheme for the L.S.F.

The schemes, of course, will all be founded on the same basis. It is contemplated that the basic rate for compensation will be as in the civilian scheme save that all members of the three services will be treated as earners. It is also proposed to provide for compensation, within certain limits, in respect of loss of earnings by members of these services.

Mr. Cosgrave

That is loss of earnings in addition to the basic allowance?

Mr. O Ceallaigh

Yes. I do not know whether it is still in dispute but there was a dispute about the period over which that should operate. I think it is agreed upon now.

Mr. Cosgrave

Does it mean that if a man was earning £5 a week and the basic allowance is 18/- that he will get £4 2s. 0d. as well as the 18/-?

Mr. O Ceallaigh

He will not get full compensation for loss of earnings in addition, during that period, whether it be 13 or 26 weeks. He will not get both. He will get the loss of earnings, and, in the later period that would not be covered by the loss of earnings allowance, he will get the compensation.

Mr. Dillon

Is the loss of earnings calculated on the workmen's compensation basis or is it the total replacement of income?

Mr. O Ceallaigh

On his real wages, within limits. There are limits. Deputy Mulcahy raised a point about the Army Pensions Act, 1927. That does not exactly come under this Vote, but an amendment of that Act has been under active consideration for a good while, and I think it is approaching conclusion. I do not think we can at all consider adopting the British rate of compensation here, however deserving the case might be. In comparison with us, the British are certainly a very rich nation and have resources that we could not command. As I said last night, we do not know the extent of our liabilities and nobody could know under present circumstances the total sum we are likely to be called upon to pay. Therefore, we will have to walk warily and prudently.

I agree that for many of the people who may be injured the scale of allowances is certainly very modest in comparison with what some of these people may be earning but, as I say, we do not know what we are likely to have to pay. When this war ends, if it is found that our liabilities are relatively light there is no reason why in the light of the fuller knowledge and in the new circumstances we should not reconsider and revise the proposed grants. The difficulties which arose in respect of demolition and rescue squads and which were referred to last night, will, I think, be got over when the scheme is published. I understand that agreement has more or less been reached with those in charge of the A.R.P. services who deal with the demolition and rescue squads, and whatever difficulties have arisen and have been responsible, as we are told, for the failure of some of these bodies to operate, will probably disappear. I hope so, at any rate.

General Mulcahy

We would not have heard of this basis of loss of earnings for a period if we had not got the Minister to speak this morning.

Mr. O Ceallaigh

I thought the Deputy was aware of it.

General Mulcahy

No, and, as a matter of fact, the people who are involved were not aware of it either, so that it would be advisable that, as early as possible, the Minister would make an announcement on these lines and would indicate that the proposal would be retrospective, so that the emergency services might begin to function in a full way, having the security that compensation will be available. I want to ask also whether it is the approach of the Government to these cases of compensation that people who have been injured in this way will not be pushed on to the poor law authorities for assistance to rear their families.

Mr. O Ceallaigh

I do not see that they need be, with the rate of compensation.

General Mulcahy

On 47/4 for a family of five?

Mr. O Ceallaigh

I make it 49/6.

Mr. Dillon

When we have family allowances, the position will be met, but not till then. On Deputy Mulcahy's point as to the Minister's announcing the scheme of compensation on the basis of earnings, may I suggest to the Minister that forthwith the details of the basis of that scheme should be announced? I do not believe that if a man who was earning £8 a week when he joined the Local Defence Force meets with an accident, he will get compensation and £8 a week during his period of disability. I imagine there will be a scheme analogous to, if not identical with, the workmen's compensation scheme, under which he will get a percentage of his earnings within certain limits, so as to keep him in reasonable comfort until he can resume his normal avocation; but it is a great mistake, if you are putting out a reasonable and even generous scheme, to have it come as an anti-climax as a result of having raised hopes too high. The whole details of this scheme ought to be given now, when the scheme has been mentioned at all, and that at the earliest possible moment, lest misapprehension should arise. May I also ask when people who have proved claims two years ago, or two and a half years ago, for compensation in respect of damage done to their premises by bombs will be paid?

Mr. O Ceallaigh

That matter is out of order.

An Ceann Comhairle

This Estimate deals with personal injuries.

Mr. Dillon

It does not relate to war damage to property?

An Ceann Comhairle

That was dealt with on the previous Vote.

Mr. Dillon

Very good. I want, however, to emphasise the point made by Deputy Mulcahy. It is a very dangerous thing to announce that you propose to compensate on the basis of loss of wages, if you do not make the details of the plan manifest at once.

Vote put and agreed to.