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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 1 Jul 1943

Vol. 91 No. 1

Election of Taoiseach.

Táimse ag moladh don Dáil go n-ainmneochthar Eamon de Valéra mar Thaoiseach. Ní mór don t-é a ceapfar ina Thaoiseach tréithe agus buadha fé leith a bheith aige. Mar Cheannphort ar na hÓglaigh san Eirghe Amach Náisiúnta Seachtmhain na Cásca, 1916, mar Thaoiseach ar an ngluaiseacht Náisiúnta le linn na mblian nglórmhar ó 1917 go dtí 1921, agus mar Cheann ar an Riaghaltas le haon bhliain déag anuas, tá cruthuighthe go soiléir ag Éamon de Valéra sa bhaile agus i gcéin go bhfuil na tréithe agus na buadha fé leith san aige.

Rud eile dhe, is soiléir do gach éinne gur mian le muinntir na hÉeireann gurab é a bheas ina Thaoiseach, thárla é bheith ina cheann ar an bPáirtí is mó ar fad sa Dáil seo. Seo é an seachtú huair atá ainm Éamuin de Valéra dhá mholadh mar Thaoiseach an Riaghaltais anso. Is é leas na hEireann go n-ainmneochthaí arís é. Is mór an onóir domhsa gur orm a thuit an dualgas an moladh so a dhéanamh agus tá súil agam go nglacfaidh an Dáil leis d'aonghuth.

It is my great privilege, as an Ulster Deputy, to second the motion proposed by Donnchadh O Briain, that Eamon de Valera be elected Taoiseach. There are many reasons that I could give in support of this motion. He is the Leader of by far the largest Party in this House and the trust of the people in him is obvious. He has filled the high office for the last 11 years, recognised not here only but throughout the world as the national leader; and he has filled it with distinction to himself, with honour to the nation and with benefit to all our people.

There are critical days, and years, ahead for this country. It is and will continue to be a time when prudent leadership and wise statesmanship are essential if the destinies of our people are to be safely guided. What more fitting choice can we make to-day then than that of the man who has so successfully led the country during the past four years—perhaps the most dangerous and difficult this nation has seen in our lifetime, or that of our fathers. By his courage and his strength, by his tolerance and his wisdom, he has earned the respect and confidence not of a particular Party only, but of the Irish race, and nothing is more certain than that in the future, as in the past, he will uphold with dignity and without compromise the sovereign and indefeasible rights of our nation and will bring to the greatest of our unsettled problems that devotion which has been the mark of his whole public life. I ask this House to pass this motion unanimously.

It is my duty to put certain views to this House this evening, but, in particular, to nominate William T. Cosgrave as a fit and proper person to lead this country of ours through the stormy days that are before us, those stormy days which have been referred to by Deputy Donnchadh O Briain and Deputy Brady. I want to remind the House, through you, that we have had an election in which, if there was any decision given, it was a decision against Party Government in the future. I had some thoughts myself that the day had arrived when the wounds of the past could be eliminated. I am not yet unhopeful, and I think that the name of William T. Cosgrave would give more hope in doing that than any other name now before the House. I, indeed, have no quarrel with the nomination made because I agree that the people, wisely or unwisely, have given him a vote in the largest Party, but I must be mindful of the future. In my own constituency, I saw the people vote up and down and across for the various Parties and I interpret that as being a vote for a national Government in this country, notwithstanding the fact that although this Party may have advocated it, the people did not give it just the absolute approval I would desire.

The people have given a decision, and it is a decision against Party Government. I should like to know from the Taoiseach at the moment—he was the Taoiseach of the last Dáil and he remains Taoiseach until his successor is appointed—if he be re-elected what his plans will be. He has been elected, no doubt, as leader of the largest Party to carry on the policy to which he had given effect for the previous four or five years. When one comes to examine that policy one must put oneself this question: What is it? It is a policy of hardships upon all sections of the community. It is a policy that has sent our boys and girls to Northern Ireland and to Great Britain to seek employment. It is a policy that has imposed hardship upon the farmer, his wife, his son, his daughter and his worker with no ample compensation for their labour. It is a policy of staying at home, of not doing anything, of not making contacts with foreign governments. There is no quarrel, indeed, between this Front Bench and the Government Front Bench on the question of neutrality. I think that even the Taoiseach himself would admit that this Front Bench and our Party, and also the Labour Party, have played their part in the defence of this country. I do not think anybody will doubt that for a moment although certain members of the Government may by their whispering campaign, their campaign of calumny and slander have befogged the issue in various parts of the country. They did not do it in my constituency, I can assure you. If they did try it, the result might be different from that which they expected.

We are asked to vote for the present Taoiseach by Fianna Fáil, which is the largest Party, because it is the largest Party. The members of that Party claim that the House should vote for the out-going Taoiseach to carry on the same policy which he has carried on for the last four years. I cannot subscribe to that and, therefore, I put to the House the name of William T. Cosgrave as being a person who, if elected as Taoiseach, will give new hope to the people for the future. The plan and the policy that he has is a plan to establish a National Government in this country composed of representatives of all sides of the House, and he would include in this even his old sparring partner right across on the Front Bench. I should like to see such a situation arising in this country because, in my opinion, it would give new hope to the people of the country. If we continue the old system, we shall have a new era of sectionalism in this country in which you will have the Sons of the Soil—I am not an Irish speaker, I am the only person in this House convicted of not being one— Labour, artisans and every other section putting forward their own interests and the new situation will be such that the old traditions to which we all held fast and cherished will be lost.

I think that the day of reckoning has come, a day on which Fianna Fáil as well as Fine Gael should take note of the writing on the wall. You on the Fianna Fáil Benches have not held your fort; it has been very substantially reduced. There are several other people here who have been able to take many seats from you. I want to suggest to members of the House, whether they be Labour, Farmers or Independents, that in accepting William T. Cosgrave as Taoiseach, they will be accepting a man whose word is his bond and who under God will lead this country, in my opinion, to that position at which Collins and Griffith aimed and in which every one of us would like to see it. I submit to you that if you support him you will be doing a good day's work for the country and that you will be maintaining the highest traditions of our race. I do not want to irritate anybody; to think of doing that would be my last thought, but I would say that Fianna Fáil after 11 years of administration have demoralised this country to such an extent that it was even permissible in Dublin, I believe, to take out a loud speaker and to warn the people of Dublin that if they did not vote for Fianna Fáil this country would be deluged in blood. That may be good policy for Fianna Fáil, but I think it was the most despicable episode in their history. I know well that if you asked the present Taoiseach whether he stood for that, he would deny the charge vehemently, but when that is done under his banner, I think that this House must be very careful as to its next step.

I know that there are several people in this House who think that they should sit here without voting for the present Taoiseach and that there are certain other people who think that they should sit here without voting against him. I want to remind the members of this House of a few facts. If you vote for him that is all right, because you will be exercising your rights as Deputies although you may not be exercising the specific right which the people gave you. You are, however, free agents and you must answer to your people for your actions. But, by sitting in this House and not voting against him, you accept the policy for which he as Taoiseach stands. I want to warn the people of this House and the country generally that the moment you elect Deputy de Valera as Taoiseach you are giving him a power under which he can declare an election to-morrow. That is not a threat; I am speaking of facts as I know them.

He may not be very keen on one.

I do not think he is keen on it myself, but at the same time he is a very strong-minded man and he does not give a damn what the Fianna Fáil Party thinks any more than what we think. They will follow him like sheep through a gap. You applauded me when I said he was a strong-minded man and I would ask you to take your medicine now. You will follow him like a pack of sheep. The moment he barks you will run through the gap.

There is a convention in the House under which a Deputy should address the Chair.

There is no use in getting on to me in the way you got on to Labour because the moment you do that we will have a show down and you will not be the gainer. I am not going to be drawn at all. I say that by electing William T. Cosgrave as Taoiseach you will have a man in that high office who has always been able to interpret the national mind of this country. He will be able, if elected, to take the best out of Fianna Fáil, the best out of Fine Gael, the best out of Labour, the best out of Farmers, and the best out of the Independents to form a Government which, in my opinion, will bring hope and succour to every farmer, worker and citizen of this country. You must remember that there are only 67 Deputies in the Fianna Fáil Party and that there are 71 others. Therefore, you must take the view that the decision of the people is that Fianna Fáil is not entitled to form a Party Government. If they go on and form their Party Government, in spite of the 71 votes that are here against them, that is their responsibility. If they do it, they will do it against the wishes of the people. It will be an indication that Fianna Fáil has taken the point of view that the Irish people are only sheep to be driven ahead as the Fianna Fáil Party goes through the gap.

I desire to second the motion proposed by Deputy MacEoin. Let me say at the outset that I was rather surprised that Deputy de Valera was proposed as Taoiseach, having regard to his very emphatic, if not very definite statement, made during the course of the election. Is it necessary to remind Deputies on the Fianna Fáil Benches or any other Deputy in the House that the Taoiseach said—or at least that was the implication of his statement to every person in the country—that he wanted a clear majority over all Parties to form a Government? "If we do not get a clear majority, we go into Opposition."

I did not say that.

No, of course; the Taoiseach took very good care that he did not say that. What he did say was: "We can go into opposition." The Taoiseach, of course, is never definite. However, that was the appeal which the Taoiseach and every member of his Front and back benches made to the country—to give them a clear majority over all Parties. That was rejected by the country. The country refused to give Deputy de Valera or any other leader a clear majority over all Parties. Let me take my own constituency, where the Taoiseach's Party was a very strong one. In that constituency, the Fianna Fáil Party dropped over 10,000 votes. If any clear indication of the people's mind was given in the County Tipperary it was that the people wanted a national Government. The candidates they returned were three Fianna Fáil, two Fine Gael, one Farmer and one Labour. I think that is a fair picture of what happened generally throughout the country. We are putting forward the name of W. T. Cosgrave to give this House an opportunity of forming what we believe this country wants, a Government composed of all Parties in this House. We are making an appeal for the co-operation of all Parties in this House to set up a united Government.

During the last four years political opponents have stood on common platforms throughout this country—we had the full commendation of Deputy de Valera—and appealed to all sections of our people outside to bury all their differences and bitternesses, and in some cases political hatreds, and the people responded in a magnificent way to that appeal. As a result of their response, the Taoiseach and every other member of this House was able to say that we have presented to all people both inside and outside this country such a united front as even the most optimistic member of this House had not hoped for. Every Party and every section of the House co-operated in that appeal, and we got that splendid unity. But, what is good enough for the people outside, what the Taoiseach declares is a sign of strength outside—that unity, that coming together of all sections—is described as a symptom of weakness when it is proposed to carry it into effect here in this House. Is it a sign of strength that one Party is to be the Government of this country? Are we to be told here in a deliberative Assembly what the people were told outside at the cross-roads—that there is only one man in this nation fit to lead and save the country? Does any sane man in this House, no matter to which Party he belongs, believe that? A Minister says over there that that is the position—that there is only one man in this nation who can save the country. Did not the Deputy say "yes"?

The Deputy should make his speech instead of asking questions.

Very well—the Deputy did not say "yes". I am sorry. Deputies on the Fianna Fáil Benches applauded when Deputy MacEoin referred to Deputy de Valera as a strong-minded man. Of course they applauded. He is so strong-minded that this is going to be a one-man Government as it has been for the last eleven years.

Thank God there are not men like you in it anyway.

I do not want to be in the Government at all-good, bad or indifferent. I know, perhaps, a lot more about this House than the Deputy does. There are very few Deputies who have been in the House as long as I have been, and I am putting forward here a plea for co-operation. I am making the statement here—I do not think any reasonable man can deny it—that a Government formed from all Parties in this House will be stronger and better than a Government formed from any other Party. We heard a lot of talk about the critical days that are ahead of us. There is no doubt about that. There is no doubt that the most critical phases of the war are still ahead. There is no doubt whatever that the greatest struggle that will take place in this war, no matter how long it may last, will occur within a short time.

Are we to be told that it is a sign of weakness for this House to unite as if it were one family in forming a Government? Are we to be told that all the courage and patriotism and vision are concentrated in that Front Bench opposite? I do not want to go back on what has happened, or refer to what has flown from the administration of that Front Bench in the last 11 years. I do not think this is the time for it. But I do say that this is the time for co-operation between all Parties in this House. It is the time for us to follow the splendid example of the people up and down the country when they rallied to the defence of the country; when men who had been bitter enemies during the last 20 years stood shoulder to shoulder in the ranks of the L.D.F., the L.S.F., and other services associated with our national defence. Surely we cannot refuse to do what we appealed to them to do? If Fianna Fáil insists on having a Party Government, a one man Government—I am stating the facts as we, who have been in this House for a number of years, know them—and if this House agrees to have a one-man Government, then, in my opinion, it is a sign of the greatest weakness that could possibly be shown in this nation. We appeal to the House to say that this, above all other times, is the time for a national Government. We appeal to them to rally around the man who has pledged himself, both inside and outside this House, to form that national Government. We ask the help and co-operation of every Party in this House.

In connection with the nominations which are before the House from the Fianna Fáil Party and from the Fine Gael Party, I should like briefly to express the viewpoint of the Labour Party. In our view, it is the obvious duty of the Fianna Fáil Party, being the largest Party but of course not having a clear majority, to endeavour to form a Government in the situation which now confronts us, and it is presumably a recognition of that fact by the Fianna Fáil Party itself that has led to the nomination of Deputy de Valera as Taoiseach.

We do not propose to vote against the nomination of Deputy de Valera and, as we do not agree with the Fianna Fáil policy, we cannot see our way to support their nomination. It seems to us that to do so would constitute an endorsement of Fianna Fáil policy, the visible manifestations of which are the mass emigration of our young and middle-age people to try to find employment in Britain, large-scale unemployment at home for those who escape the emigrant ship, high prices on the one hand and low wages on the other hand, representing the only economic offering which Fianna Fáil can make to the mass of the people. Then we have social services which are characterised by miserable pittances to the unemployed, to the widows, to the aged and the destitute poor. Most inexplicable of all, we have an acute shortage of dairy and agricultural products in a country which has 12,000,000 acres of arable land available for cultivation. A policy marked by such blunders, by such intense human suffering, does not commend itself to the Labour Party, and we do not propose to endorse that policy to-day by voting for the nomination of Deputy de Valera. Having regard to the past reactionary social policy of the Fine Gael Party, whose attenuated numbers are indicative of the people's disapproval of the policy of that Party, the nomination made by Deputy MacEoin makes less appeal to us than the appeal made by the Fianna Fáil Party.

Will you form a Government yourself? No. Before this business is disposed of it seems to be the very nadir of futility on the part of the Leader of the Labour Party to come here and say that he will not support Deputy de Valera, that he will not support Deputy Cosgrave, and that he will do nothing himself. If nobody forms a Government we are bound to have chaos in the country. I doubt if anybody aspires very eagerly to the honours of the office in the present crisis. Whoever takes it on knows that he is going to undertake a thankless and an arduous task. I would say that the Labour Party are afraid to shoulder that responsibility as, if they were not afraid, they would have some more constructive policy to offer than merely to be afraid to say "yes" or "no". I have more respect for the man who will get up and do something. I heard all sorts of encomiums of Deputy de Valera being the greatest man the world has ever seen, to which I will not subscribe, but I say that he is very nearly the greatest politician that the world has ever seen. He is, probably, the astutest politician in Europe. He is one of the most astute politicians in the world and, if Deputy Norton thinks that he can make ducks and drakes of a politican like Deputy de Valera he will have to think again, because Deputy de Valera will make circles around him and the Deputy will not know it.

Here we are, 137 elected Deputies in whom ultimately the fate of this country depends. The people have chosen us. We have a high and honourable office, and we have the courage to discharge the duties attached to it. At this moment 137 men and women act before the world on behalf of the Irish nation. Now I make no disguise of the fact that Deputy Cosgrave's outlook and record in this country commands my respect—my affectionate respect—and admiration and, if I had to work under anyone, there is no man I would be prouder to work under than Deputy William T. Cosgrave. The fact remains that Deputy de Valera is the leader of the biggest Party in this House. I am a believer in the Party system. I may have misunderstood certain Deputies who spoke here to-day, but I seem to remember that some of them said that the Irish people had expressed disapproval of the Party system. I do not believe that. I believe implicitly in Parliamentary democracy. I am a Party man, and I make no concealment of the fact that it is irksome to me to be outside Party. I think Independent Deputies in a deliberative Assembly can do very little good, but the times are abnormal and the Irish people, because of the fact that the times are abnormal, have indicated very clearly by their votes that for the duration of this abnormal time they want the Party system suspended but not abolished. I think they are perfectly right in that. Just as we surrendered a great many of our most precious liberties into the keeping of the Government for the duration of the crisis, I believe the Irish people want to suspend the Party system now, but to keep it in suspension until the crisis is over. They look to see it preserved and protected so that it can come into play post-war as the most effective instrument for the preservation of individual liberty in any nation.

I am not one of those to bow down in admiration of the Russian system, the German system or the Italian system. I think they are all equally beastly. Parliamentary democracy is the best system that I have yet seen working for the preservation of human liberty and indissolubly associated with it is the Party system. It is not perfect. No human institution is perfect. The work of man will never be ideal, but under the Party system men can maintain freedom and dignity. I want to see it maintained. I seriously suggest to 137 Deputies that we are putting that system in jeopardy to-day as a permanent feature of our public life if we do not form a national Government. Some people say that the democratic system of Government is unequal to an emergency. I deny it. If the democratic system is worked by men worthy of the trust of the people it will work. It is working in Britain in face of the greatest crisis that has ever confronted the British people. There you have high Tories and extreme Left-Wing Labour men burying their differences and coming together in the Cabinet, because they recognise the magnitude of the perils that face their people. The trouble is that in this country the people do not recognise—just as some Deputies do not recognise—the magnitude of the perils that face us. There are elements in this country—who will deny it—who would like to take advantage of any confusion that might eventuate on the decision we give to argue that the time had come for the abolition of the democratic system and to substitute for it some other system. I want to ask the House, as a test of its courage and of its character, to defend freedom against those who would destroy it. If this House is going to embark for a protracted period on futile vacillation, culminating in a general election precipitated by the pique of Deputy de Valera, because of some minor reverse in a decision in this House, the forces concerned to abolish Parliamentary democracy will be immensely strengthened. I want to demonstrate to our people what I know is true, that Parliamentary democracy properly worked is the best instrument of Government for carrying our people through the crisis.

The Taoiseach gave an admirable demonstration of that when France fell. I remember those weeks well, when everyone felt that the moment of invasion was at our door. There was then some real danger that we saw. There was no question of words, no question of speculation. We knew that at any minute the foreigner might set his foot on our soil. What did we do? Did we sit down and conduct a debate? We did not. We met in the Taoiseach's room. He sent for us and we were glad to go. The Labour Party came, the Fine Gael Party, of which I was then a member, came. Everybody came, and I think the Taoiseach will be constrained to admit that in those anxious hours leading up to the establishment of the Defence Conference he received material assistance from Deputies on every side. We were in conference with him as to how best to constitute the body which was to remove the question of the defence of this nation out of the sphere of Party politics.

Is not that true? Does he throw his mind back to the days when we were testing formulas and trying to arrive at an agreed programme? Does he remember the hours when it seemed as if, through some futility, there might be a breach between us? But sitting together around a table we found the form of words to say what we all desired to say and built upon it was the Defence Conference of which the present Minister for Defence said that it did good work, and, in respect of which he was prepared to say, behind closed doors where it worked, that the work was good, the co-operation generous, and the results excellent. Defence was then the most urgent problem of this country. I want to tell this House now that getting our people through the next two or three years safe is the most urgent problem that confronts the 137 Deputies of this House. Are we fit to do now what our much despised predecessors were equal to when they decided to have the Defence Conference? You cannot have a Defence Conference for economics, for agriculture, or for any other branch of Government. When the Defence Conference was established the only division of Government that called for emergency action was Defence. We take it now that every Department of Government calls for that same emergency approach, the high resolve to lay aside our differences until this crisis is over, to get through together in the belief that we ought to have a common desire to save our people and our country whatever the cost to ourselves, and in the firm resolve that when the crisis is overcome we shall return to the full undiluted system of Parliamentary democracy with the full thrust and parry of Party debate across the floor of this House. That is the way the liberties of our people can be preserved. I say to you deliberately that if we are unequal to this situation now we may be singing here the swan song of the only institution that can preserve the liberties of our people intact.

These facts being so, I want to ask Deputy de Valera will he invite representatives from the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and Clann na Talmhan to join his Cabinet. That is all I want to know. I do not conceal the fact that I should wish to see Deputy Cosgrave sitting where Deputy de Valera sits now, but the people have decided otherwise, and I accept the fact. If the Taoiseach, Deputy de Valera, will announce that he is prepared to form a Government consisting of his own colleagues and representatives of Fine Gael, Labour and Clann na Talmhan, I will vote for him. He is quite free to say, and could justly say, that he would fix all and sundry with notice that that coalition will subsist only so long as the crisis subsists, and that at the conclusion he will advise a dissolution and a return to the Party system that obtained here before. He has the prescriptive right, as being the Leader of the largest Party in this House and in the country, to make that offer first if it accepts it and if he makes it. But if he does not, and if we are to lapse back for the next three or four years into Party wrangling, culminating in a general election, which will be precipitated by Deputy de Valera on the ground that contentious Parties in this House had made it impossible for him to pursue a coherent policy—because that is the issue he will put to the country—I say that democracy and freedom in this country will be done irreparable damage. Rather than afford him the opportunity of doing that, I think this House should turn in full confidence to Deputy Cosgrave and ask him that his Party and the Fianna Fáil Party should take in hand the task of forming a national Government that will endure for the period of the crisis. I want to join with Deputy MacEoin in saying that my long experience of Deputy Cosgrave has been that he is a man whose word is better than his bond. If he gave his written bond he also has the brains to get out of it if he chose to do so, but if he gave his word, then if there was any ambiguity Deputy Cosgrave always interpreted that ambiguity against himself. He is the kind of man who, in his peculiar position, can be fully confided with the powers of choosing a national Government in the certainty that if given the position of Taoiseach he would not misuse it for any Party advantage, but would, as truly as he could do it, reproduce the people's will.

I am a Parliamentarian. I believe in Parliament, and I say now that Deputy de Valera's duty is to form this national Government. If he were prepared to undertake it, I would not desire to see that duty passed to another. He is the people's choice for that duty, but if he is afraid to undertake it, if he will not face the difficult task of undertaking it, then I ask Deputy Cosgrave to undertake it.

I do not believe in it. If it is an answer the Deputy wants, I am giving it to him. I do not believe in coalitions. I do not believe they will work.

The Deputy has as much right to his opinion as we have.

You asked me a question and you wanted an answer.

That is perfectly fair, and I appreciate the Deputy's courtesy. Doubtless this is a matter to which Deputy de Valera has given careful consideration, but these are the facts which are staring us in the face. President Roosevelt, when his country was confronted with impending war, invited Mr. Knox and Mr. Stimson, two pillars of the Republican Party, into his Cabinet. Mr. Winston Churchhill, the Prime Minister of England, invited into his Cabinet members of the Labour Party and members of the Liberal Party, old battle-scarred opponents of his, whom in the past he had handled none too gently, and by whom he himself was handled none too gently. Every great democracy in the world has chosen a coalition except Australia and with what results? That in Australia, as soon as war began, you had one general election when Mr. Menzie's Government went. Now they are going to have another election which will very possibly put out Mr. Curtin. How long will Australia stand that? Do Deputies seriously believe that if we are precipitated into another general election within, say, 12 months, our people will stand for it?

Goodness knows Deputy de Valera is petulant enough, but I do not believe that he is as petulant as that, but if the country is precipitated into another general election in 12 months do Deputies believe that our people will stand for that? Does any Deputy believe that the majority of the people desire Party Government at the present time supported only by a minority of the House? I am perfectly certain that 80 per cent. of the Deputies sitting here know that our people want, above all things at the present moment, stable government. How else can you get stable government except by a national Government at the present time? If Deputy de Valera were to rise now and say that he proposed to form a national Government the proposition in favour of Deputy Cosgrave would, I believe, be withdrawn. I am perfectly certain that there is not any member of the Fine Gael Party that I know who would not be prepared to get up and absolutely reject any proposal that he should be included if his exclusion would facilitate the formation of a national Government.

I doubt if any man at this side aspires to high office. At the present time it is a thankless task. Some of our friends in Clann na Talmhan will discover very soon that Ministerial office, at the present time, is not the bed of roses that some of them think it is. £1,700 a year for a Minister in Éire is not such a dream of delight as to tempt many men at the present time. Those who undertake the task of forming a national Government now will be patriots and persons primarily concerned for the honour of the country. Those who are prepared to serve Deputy de Valera in a Party Government may be true patriots, but they are misguided, and my apprehension is that serious injury, if not ruin, may be done to Parliamentary democracy in this country, and that true liberty will be in jeopardy. I would, therefore, appeal to Deputy de Valera to put forward his proposals for a national Government, to stir the Labour Party out of its futility, to invite the co-operation of the Fine Gael Party, which has never been afraid to shoulder its burden of duty, and to give Clann na Talmhan the opportunity, to which I am sure they will be equal, of doing their best to serve this country under the leader chosen by the largest majority accorded to any leader in the general election that has just come to a close.

Ar son Clann na Talmhan ní maith liom cur in aghaidh Eamon de Valéra mar Thaoiseach ag an am i láthair. Caithfimid seasamh agus oibriú le chéile anois ar son ar dtíre agus muintir na hÉireann.

As leader of Clann na Talmhan, the Farmers' Party, I wish to state that it is not the intention of my Party to oppose the election of Deputy de Valera as Taoiseach, in view of the fact that he is the leader of the largest Party in Dáil Eireann. We have decided to adopt that attitude because we believe that such a course is best in the national interest at present. The farmers of Ireland always put their country's interest first. The outstanding national need at the moment is stability and the Farmers' Party is prepared to do its part now and to give to the country that security which it needs so much; but we wish to emphasise that the Clann will definitely maintain its own independence and do all it can to carry out the wishes of the electors who sent us to Dáil Eireann. It will not be swallowed up by any Party and we are determined that it will not meet the fate of previous Farmers' Parties in that respect.

The course we are taking is, we believe, not only the best for the country, but in the long run will be the best for the people we represent, and we know that our supporters, and indeed many others outside our ranks, will understand and appreciate our gesture in this momentous crisis. If another election is soon and suddenly sprung on the country, our Party cannot be blamed, and the Party or Parties who attempt to force an election will find themselves in the dock before the Irish people, and will no doubt be dealt with accordingly by the hardheaded, commonsense voters of the country. Any sharp practice for the sake of Party advantage will not be tolerated by our people. I have no illusions about professional politicians. I believe sincerely, as I stated during the election campaign, that the only ploughman—the man whom we represent—the professional politician cares about is the ploughman on the £ note. We hold that a broad national policy is most essential especially now and our Party will do all in its power to foster that policy.

Another reason for stability at the present juncture is the fact that the Vocational Commission is to issue a report at an early date. We believe largely in vocationalism as opposed to entire reliance on the Party system, and the country is hoping for great things from that commission and from the brilliant churchman at its head, his Lordship the Bishop of Galway. I regret that in many cases neutrality was made an issue in the recent election. If the credit for neutrality was due to any particular section of the people, and I do not say it is, first credit must go to the people on the land, the men who manned the front, the middle and the rear line trenches in the economic war, and by their self-sacrificing stand made possible the agreement of 1938, which gave Ireland back her ports, but not yet her Six Counties.

Deputy Dillon has thrown out a gibe. I suppose he took the hint from the Press reports this morning. I have noticed these reports in the daily press which seek to convey the idea that some bargaining has been in progress between the Clann and An Taoiseach. There is no foundation whatever for such reports. My interview with the Taoiseach was merely a courtesy call which I considered it my duty to make as leader of a new Party in this House. No bargaining went on. No offer was made to us by An Taoiseach, because I may tell you that no offer would be accepted by us if it were made. I shall conclude by saying again that no matter what other Parties may do, the Clann will act as patriots. They will seek no unfair advantage, and will act only in the best interests of our country.

The view expressed by Deputy de Valera by way of interjection during the speech of Deputy Dillon conveyed in a single sentence the considered opinion of the Fianna Fáil Party. We do not believe in coalition governments. We think they are a bad system of government. We think that in any circumstances they are a bad system of government and we consider that in present circumstances in this country a coalition government would be a source of weakness and perhaps even a source of danger. In abnormal conditions, democracy may be forced to work through coalition governments, but those who desire the preservation of democracy and the proper functioning of democratie institutions of government will endeavour to avoid the establishment of coalitions and endeavour to end them as quickly as possible. That is our view. We believe in a government of men who are agreed upon policy, of men who are loyal to the leader of the Government and to one another, of men who will stand together when steps have to be taken which are politically unpopular and which might lose the votes of sections of the people for the individuals concerned. Members of this House know that it is often the duty of governments to take action which is unpopular with individuals and sections of individuals. We believe that only a government that will stand together in such circumstances and take such action, if it is clearly in the public interest, can function properly under present conditions here.

I think it is preposterous to suggest that the decision of the people in the recent election was in favour of a coalition government. I should say that whatever interpretation might be put on the people's decision one thing is clear: That they were definitely against the proposal put to them by the Fine Gael Party.

Were they in favour of Party government?

If there has been a clear decision given by the people, it is against the formation of a coalition government.

And against Party government.

I think Deputy Dillon did well to remind us of the situation which arose here in 1940, when the danger of invasion of this country appeared imminent. If he is advancing what happened then as an argument in favour of coalition government, I think he is by implication criticising the members of the Party with which he was then associated, because he will remember that there was no suggestion of the formation of a coalition government then. There was on the contrary a very definite and explicit statement from the leader of that Party that he did not believe and would not participate in a coalition government. There was no desire to share responsibility then.

Mr. Cosgrave

Would you mind going a step further and giving the whole truth?

I have given the whole truth.

Mr. Cosgrave

Do not minimise it. Give the whole truth.

I have never attempted to misrepresent the Deputy in any way. The Deputy in fact endeavoured to add, after the event, words to the statement as recorded in the Official Debates.

Mr. Cosgrave

Will the Deputy give the statement I made?

Certainly. I am not in a position to do so now, as I have not the document with me.

Mr. Cosgrave

Give the statement. Do not tell an untruth.

You have given an incomplete sentence.

I think it was quite obvious——

Mr. Cosgrave

Will the Deputy qualify what he stated?

No, not in the least.

Mr. Cosgrave

Then he is telling an untruth.

I do not think so.

Mr. Cosgrave

I am certain of it.

It is quite obvious

Mr. Cosgrave

It is on the records of the House.

It is quite obvious from the tone of the speeches delivered by Deputy MacEoin and Deputy Morrissey, who proposed and seconded this alternative to the motion that Deputy de Valera should be elected Taoiseach, speeches which went almost to the point of being abusive, that they did not expect the proposition to be taken seriously. If they were seriously concerned with the abolition of past disunions and Party feeling surely we would have speeches worded somewhat differently from those delivered. It was obvious to everyone in this House that Deputy MacEoin and Deputy Morrissey were merely forwarding a Party stunt which was tried out in the recent elections and which failed. Deputy Dillon was merely trying to prove to Fine Gael that he could make a better case for their policy than they could make themselves. I am very glad that Deputy Donnellan made it quite clear that there has been and will be no bargaining. The attempt on the part of the Irish Times to suggest that there has been some understand bargaining is very typical of that newspaper, typical of the contempt in which it holds the democratic institutions of the State. There has been and will be no bargaining.

The motion has been put to the House that Deputy de Valera should be appointed Taoiseach. If he is appointed Taoiseach he will appoint a Government from this Party, a Government which will agree with him on matters of policy, a Government which will carry on, so long as it has the support of the House, for the full five years for which this Dáil has been elected. So long as it is possible for that Government to carry out its policy, the policy which it believes to be essential for the welfare and safety of the country, so long will it continue.

May I say, in support of the point put forward by Deputy Dillon, that there is upon this House as its primary responsibility the election of a Government? That is a responsibility which is shared equally by every Deputy. It is not sufficient to endeavour to avoid subsequent responsibility for the actions of whatever Government is chosen. Every action of whatever Government is chosen by the Dáil will be subject to review by the Dáil and the Dáil can pass judgment on every one of them. No Deputy is held to be responsible to defend every action of the Government by his vote upon the motion for the election of Taoiseach. But there is a responsibility on every Deputy to see that this country has a Government. That is what the Dáil is doing. No Deputy can seek to avoid that responsibility. Deputy de Valera stated during the election campaign that if he got sufficient support he would form a Government. Whether he did get sufficient support will be put to the test to-day. That is the purpose of the motion, and by means of the vote on that motion that question will be answered. If there is sufficient support to secure his nomination as Taoiseach, then he will form a Government. If there is not, then the Fianna Fáil Party will go into opposition.

As the only representative in this House of the Irish Monetary Reform Association, I should like to express my views on the issue at present before the House. I will not support Deputy de Valera. I would not dream of supporting Deputy Cosgrave. I do not agree with the policy of Fianna Fáil; I do not agree with the Fine Gael Party; and I do not agree either with Labour or with Clann na Talmhan. So far as I can see, they are all only trying to whip a dead horse. It does not matter what Government is elected to-day. We have had two Governments in the past —a Cumann na nGaedheal and a Fianna Fáil Government—and both of them failed. Deputy MacEoin and Deputy Dillon spoke of a national Government. What sort of a failure will it be if they both unite?

Suppose we brought you in?

I do not intend to come in. It is all the same what government is elected; that government will fail as the two governments in the past failed. Mr. Rothschild, a great banker, once said: "Let me control a people's credit and I care not who makes its laws." We are elected to make laws. So far as I can see it is all the same what laws we make as there is a super-government over us—the people who control money. Until such time as we take over the control of money we cannot do anything for the people; we are only wiping the people's eyes by being here at all. I am only a new member of the House; I am one of the youngest members and I am not used to the procedure. But I should like to express my views. I will not keep the House very long.

The Deputy may not, on this motion, give his views on the question of monetary reform.

No, I am just giving my views on the motion before the House. I will not support Deputy de Valera, nor will I support Deputy Cosgrave, because one is bad and the other is worse. Whatever government is elected here to-day they will be just mere pawns and tools for the crowd who control money. Until such time as we take over the control of money we cannot do anything for the people. We might as well be whistling jigs to tombstones. What I am elected for is to see that whatever government is elected will take over the control of money, because until we have that we cannot do anything for the people.

The Deputy may not pursue further the question of credit. The motion before the House is the nomination of a Taoiseach, to which matter the Deputy must confine his remarks.

So far as the motion before the House is concerned, I should like to make it quite clear that I do not agree with either of the political Parties, because they are all one. I do not intend to vote for Deputy de Valera or Deputy Cosgrave, because one was bad and the other was worse. I want to make that position clear to the House.

Speaking for the first time in this House as an Independent Deputy, I should like to say that I listened with great interest to the proposals made from both sides of the House with regard to the nomination of a Taoiseach. So far as Deputy Cosgrave is concerned, I have heard a lot during recent months with regard to a national Government. I had perhaps less time to read about it and study it than if times were normal. Although it is only theory, it possibly might contain a lot of useful material. What strikes me about the whole matter, however, is the absence of any plan. I should have thought that Deputy Cosgrave and his Party would have negotiated with Parties or groups in the House and that the plans for a national Government would be prepared and ready. We are assembled here to-day to elect a Taoiseach. The proposal made for the election of Deputy de Valera is, at least, cut and dried and ready. But the other one is rather nebulous. If Dáil Eireann decides to select Deputy Cosgrave, then he has apparently to go round and negotiate with other Parties in the House and see to what extent a national Government Party can be formed. To that extent I think the proposal is not really serious.

As regards the election, it is quite true that both the big Parties, for various reasons, have come back with attenuated forces. It would be quite wrong, however, to assume that Fianna Fáil have not received a measure of support from the electorate which would justify them in taking the responsibility of forming a Government. They have got a jolt here and there; Labour has hit them up a bit. The sudden growth and the development of the Farmers' Party have been another eye-opener. I hope the Fianna Fáil Party will bear in mind that these are true elements of our people. Both the farmers and the workers must feel they have just reason for being dissatisfied with the Fianna Fáil administration. I hope that will be recognised in the future by the Fianna Fáil Party which, I assume, will be the Party in power.

There is one more aspect to which I would like to refer. All Parties in this House have indicated their stand for neutrality. It is a very necessary thing that this condition should be emphasised as firmly as possible. I think an opportunity is afforded here now to emphasise our sincerity and it can best be indicated by unanimous agreement to leave in office the Party which has received the largest amount of support from the people. That is the Party that, in actual practice, has successfully maintained the neutrality of this country up to the present. Their attitude in regard to neutrality has been amply demonstrated. I suggest that there should be unanimous agreement on the proposal that Deputy de Valera be re-elected as Taoiseach.

Mr. Cosgrave

Deputy Lemass, the Minister for Supplies, made a statement here this evening which was not in accordance with the truth. The statement that I made in connection with a coalition government followed a statement which was made by the outgoing Taoiseach. After his statement, I said that he was the obstacle to coalition government in this country. One Minister, or ex-Minister, if you so like to call him, at least, had knowledge of that and made use of it in the course of his election speeches. His colleagues either forgot it, or perhaps thought it better not to mention it.

I will get the quotation, as published in the Dáil Debates.

Mr. Cosgrave

You can.

Not from the Irish Press.

It will prove I am right.

Question put: "That Deputy Eamon de Valera be nominated Taoiseach."
The Dáil divided: Tá, 67; Níl, 37:—

  • Aiken, Frank.
  • Allen, Denis.
  • Bartley, Gerald.
  • Beegan, Patrick.
  • Brady, Brian.
  • Brady, Seán.
  • Breathnach, Cormac.
  • Breen, Daniel.
  • Brennan, Martin.
  • Breslin, Cormac.
  • Briscoe, Robert.
  • Buckley, Seán.
  • Butler, Bernard.
  • Byrne, Christopher.
  • Carter, Thomas.
  • Childers, Erskine H.
  • Corbett, Eamon.
  • Corry, Martin J.
  • Crowley, Fred H.
  • Crowley, Tadhg.
  • Daly, Francis J.
  • Derrig, Thomas.
  • De Valera, Eamon.
  • Fitzgerald, Séamus.
  • Flynn, Stephen.
  • Fogarty, Andrew.
  • Fogarty, Patrick J.
  • Friel, John.
  • Gorry, Patrick J.
  • Harris, Thomas.
  • Healy, John B.
  • Hilliard, Michael.
  • Humphreys, Francis.
  • Kennedy, Michael J.
  • Blaney, Neal.
  • Boland, Gerald.
  • Boland, Patrick.
  • Bourke, Dan.
  • Killilea, Mark.
  • Kilroy, Séamus.
  • Kissane, Eamon.
  • Lemass, Seán F.
  • Little, Patrick J.
  • Lynch, James B.
  • McCann, John.
  • McEllistrim, Thomas.
  • MacEntee, Seán.
  • Maguire, Ben.
  • Moran, Michael.
  • Morrissey, Michael.
  • Moylan, Seán.
  • O Briain, Donnchadh.
  • O Ceallaigh, Seán T.
  • O Cléirigh, Mícheál.
  • O'Grady, Seán.
  • O'Reilly, Matthew.
  • O'Sullivan, Ted.
  • Rice, Bridget M.
  • Ruttledge, Patrick J.
  • Ryan, James.
  • Ryan, Martin.
  • Ryan, Robert.
  • Sheridan, Michael.
  • Skinner, Leo B.
  • Smith, Patrick.
  • Traynor, Oscar.
  • Ward, Conn.

Níl

  • Anthony, Richard S.
  • Bennett, George C.
  • Benson, Ernest E.
  • Broderick, William J.
  • Browne, Patrick.
  • Burke, Patrick.
  • Byrne, Alfred.
  • Byrne, Alfred (Junior).
  • Coburn, James.
  • Cole, John J.
  • Cosgrave, Liam.
  • Cosgrave, William T.
  • Dillon, James M.
  • Dockrell, Henry M.
  • Dockrell, Maurice E.
  • Doyle, Peadar S.
  • Esmonde, Sir John L.
  • Fagan, Charles.
  • Fitzgerald-Kenney, James.
  • Giles, Patrick.
  • Hughes, James.
  • Linehan, Timothy.
  • Lynch, Finian.
  • MacEoin, Seán.
  • McFadden, Michael Og.
  • McGilligan, Patrick.
  • McMenamin, Daniel.
  • Mongan, Joseph W.
  • Morrissey, Daniel.
  • O'Donovan, Timothy J.
  • O'Higgins, Timothy F.
  • Redmond, Bridget M.
  • Reidy, James.
  • Reynolds, Mary.
  • Roddy, Martin.
  • Rogers, Patrick J.
  • Ryan, Jeremiah.
Tellers:—Tá: Deputies Smith and Kennedy; Níl: Deputies Doyle and Bennett.
Question declared carried.

Táim fíor-bhuidheach don Dáil mar gheall ar mé a ainmniú mar Thaoiseach. Do luadhadh a lán ceist gur mhaith liom freagra do thabhairt ortha ach ní dóigh liom gurab é seo an t-am ceart chuige. Ní déarfad anois ach go ndéanfad mo dhícheall chun mo dhualgaisí do chólíonadh mar is ceart.

Molaim sos ar obair na Dála go dtí leath-uair tar éis a sé a chlog.

It is proposed that the House do now adjourn until 6.30 p.m. I would remind Deputies that tickets of admission to the Gallery are given to them on the understanding that their friends do not interrupt the proceedings of this House, by applause, or other expression of approval or disapproval.

Business suspended at 4.50 p.m. and resumed at 6.30 p.m.

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