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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 14 Jun 1944

Vol. 94 No. 4

Committee on Finance. - Vote 41—Local Government and Public Health.

I move:—

That a sum not exceeding £1,250,413 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending the 31st day of March, 1945, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Office of the Minister for Local Government and Public Health, and certain Services administered by that Office, including Grants and other Expenses in connection with Housing, Grants to Local Authorities, sundry Miscellaneous Grants and Grants-in-Aid, and certain Charges connected with Hospitals.

In presenting this Estimate I should perhaps mention first the important development which has taken place since last year in the administration and organisation of the Department of Local Government and Public Health. As a result of my experience, since I became responsible for that Department, I was convinced that, if our public health problems were to receive the consideration which modern conditions demand, it was essential that they should receive the whole-time attention of some member of the Administration, and that such member should be vested with the necessary power and authority to take Ministerial decisions in regard to them. I placed these views before the Government and eventually at my request an Order was made on the 31st March last, under the Ministers and Secretaries (Amendment) Act, 1939, delegating to Deputy Dr. Ward, as Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Local Government and Public Health, certain of my powers, duties and functions as Minister. The powers, etc., in question were concerned mainly with the administration of the laws relating to public health, public assistance, national health insurance and the registration of births, deaths and marriages, and were set out in detail in the delegation Order. The first Order having lapsed with the dissolution of the Eleventh Dáil, it is proposed to make a fresh Order on similar lines, and a copy of that Order will be tabled in due course. Since the making of the original Order, the public health side of my Department has been under the immediate personal supervision——

Notice taken that 20 Deputies were not present; House counted, and 20 Deputies being present,

I was saying that since the making of the original delegation Order the public health side of my Department has been under the immediate personal supervision, direction and guidance of Deputy Dr. Ward, and that position will continue in the future. A further development has been the appointment of Deputy Erskine Childers as a second Parliamentary Secretary. I propose, with the consent of the Government, to assign to him the duty of acting as my immediate personal representative in the supervision and direction of certain local government sections of the Department, including the audit section, with the particular duty of following up with the other sections concerned such matters as may arise on auditors' reports. I am very hopeful that this arrangement will result eventually in a considerable improvement in the standard of our local administration.

When moving the Vote for the Department for the last financial year I referred at some length to the county management system. Subsequently I directed a circular letter to be addressed to local authorities embodying a summary of the views I then expressed and also touching upon some aspects of local administration which were raised by Deputies during the debate on the Vote. Since then I believe that there has been a much better understanding of the position of elected representatives and of their powers and functions, and I am glad to say a much fuller collaboration between elected representatives and the managers.

In pursuance of the policy of decentralisation of the control of minor offices under local bodies, the Local Government (Minor Officers) Order, 1943, was made. It came into operation on the 12th January, 1943, and under it the making of appointments to offices listed on the schedule to the Order which were in existence at the date of the Order or were subsequently created with the consent of the Minister is now a matter for county managers. It was found desirable in the case of a number of the more important of these minor offices to make a general declaration of qualifications under Section 21 of the Local Government Act, 1941. The offices in question embrace posts of assistance officer, general trained nurse with fever qualifications, midwife, general trained nurse with midwifery qualifications, and nurse rediographer.

General declarations of qualifications were made also in respect of the posts of temporary county surgeons (for holiday duty) and of resident medical officers in county hospitals; so that appointments to the post of resident medical officer may now be made by the manager without reference to the Department provided that the person appointed possesses the qualifications declared by the Minister for the post.

In connection with the appointment of temporary surgeons it was suggested that local authorities should appoint consultant surgeons who would perform for an inclusive remuneration the duties not only of consultant surgeon but also those of the county surgeon during his period of absence on annual leave.

Difficulties have been experienced in filling posts of nurse-radiographer due to the inadequate number of persons who are qualified in both nursing and radiography. Recommendations were made to local authorities in some instances to consider the alternative of appointing as registrar-radiographers officers who would undertake in addition to their radiographical duties the performance of certain clerical duties including correspondence relating to case-history, treatment after discharge and treatment in extern institutions.

In framing the Estimates for the local services in the present year the local bodies generally have recognised their responsibilities and made satisfactory provision to meet the growing cost of these services. In the case of Kerry County Council it was necessary for me to postpone the date for the council's estimates meeting until further consideration had been given to the provision to be made for the repair and maintenance of the roads of the county.

Owing to the fact that over a number of years proper provision had not been made for their maintenance, the Kerry roads had been allowed to deteriorate so seriously that it was necessary to bring in an experienced county surveyor to make an independent investigation and report on their condition. In considering the amount of the provision to be made, the council had before them the recommendations of the engineer in question. Finally, the council adopted this report and made the necessary increased provision in their rates, so that the maintenance of the Kerry roads, so long neglected, can now proceed on a proper basis.

A similar situation arose in Roscommon, but, unfortunately, with a less satisfactory outcome. In that county, the county council decided to provide only a proportion of the amount which the county surveyor recommended for the proper maintenance of the main roads. Following a formal objection by the manager to the reduction in the estimate, further consideration of the proposal was adjourned to a subsequent meeting of the council. At that meeting, the council, by a majority of 14 for and 7 against, reduced the estimate by £10,000.

It is essential, not only for the general service of the community, but in the interests of the public safety and the preservation of the State, that our main roads should be properly maintained. In every county, this is one of the principal duties of the county council. To discharge this duty is one of the reasons why the county council exists. If a council refuses to discharge its obligations to the community or to the State in this or any other regard, there is no justification for its continuance. In a critical period like the present, this is even truer than in normal times.

Accordingly, when the county council of Roscommon refused to do its public duty in regard to the main roads for which it was responsible, I directed a public inquiry to be held. The evidence adduced at that inquiry left no room for doubt that the shortsighted refusal of the county council to provide for the proper maintenance of the main roads of Roscommon would result not only in a very serious deterioration in the condition of these roads, in the first place, but ultimately in a considerable increase in the ratepayers' burden. In that connection, I think I may refer to the fact that the persistence of the Kerry County Council in a course such as the Roscommon County Council was proposing to embark on, resulted eventually in a serious aggravation of the position from the ratepayers' point of view, for, notwithstanding the special consideration which I extended to the Kerry County Council and the financial assistance I gave it, the rate in the current year had to be increased by no less than 3/8 in the £1 in order to meet the special expenditure occasioned by failure to maintain the Kerry road system properly.

For the Roscommon County Council, by a majority, to adopt a policy which would have had similar consequences for the Roscommon ratepayers was bad enough, but a study of the evidence in the report of the inquiry gave me, at any rate, a very poor impression of even the business capacity of the members of the council who were responsible for the adoption of this shortsighted policy by the county council. As I have said, they reduced the county surveyor's estimate for main road maintenance by £10,000, and then, with significant ineptitude, they struck a rate in the £ which would have been insufficient to raise even the reduced expenditure of which they had approved. They arrived at this rate by taking credit for an estimated receipt from State grants of 40 per cent., not of the reduced, but of the original estimate. The fact, of course, is that not only would they not have got a grant of 40 per cent. of their original estimate, but they would not have got a grant at all. The amount they proposed to provide for main road maintenance would have been insufficient to do any useful work on the roads, and I was not going to throw good money after bad by making a grant in such circumstances.

Not only, therefore, were the members of the majority group in the Roscommon County Council refusing to discharge one of their main duties, but they would have been responsible for involving the local ratepayers in the loss of Government grants amounting to over £9,000 and workers, farmers, shopkeepers and every other member of the community who would have been involved if the sum of £9,000 were not available to provide employment in Roscommon, in a secondary loss. Clearly, the attitude which had been adopted by the majority in the Roscommon County Council, coupled with its refusal to discharge one of the main duties which the law has imposed on that body, called for action on my part to protect the ratepayers of County Roscommon from the inevitable consequences. On this ground alone, I should have been justified in dissolving a body which, by a majority, had shown itself not only to be recalcitrant but even incompetent in the management of the council's finances.

But an even graver issue was raised during the course of the public inquiry which I was compelled to hold and I must advert to it. Under Articles 60 and 81 of the Emergency Powers Order, 1939, there is a special obligation imposed not only on local authorities but on the Minister for Local Government in regard to the maintenance of public roads. Obviously, the defence of the State and the safety and welfare of the whole community could be gravely prejudiced in an emergency if our main road system were permitted to fall into disrepair. Accordingly, under the articles I have mentioned, the Minister for Local Government is given special and drastic powers to ensure that local authorities fully discharge their duty in this regard.

Hoping that, when they embarked on their wrong-headed course of action, the majority of the members of the Roscommon County Council had not adverted to the serious reactions which their conduct might have on our defence problems and on the public safety and the preservation of the State, I directed the inspector who conducted the inquiry to draw the attention of the members of the Roscommon County Council to this important consideration, to refer the members of the council to the provisions of the Emergency Powers Order and to point out to them the very grave view I took of their refusal to provide for the proper maintenance of the main roads of the county. Notwithstanding all the efforts of the inspector to get the members in question to take a proper patriotic view of their responsibilities as public men and as citizens, they persisted in their stubborn refusal to discharge their responsibilities as road authority, and he had perforce to proceed with the inquiry and, in due course, reported to me. The inquiry was held on 12th and 13th April last.

On 19th May, hoping that in the meantime a wiser and more public-spirited temper would have inspired them, I directed the Secretary of the Department to inform the Roscommon County Council that I had considered the verbatim report of the proceedings of the inquiry and the report of the inspector, and that I was satisfied that the amount provided by the council for main road maintenance was insufficient, a fact which would result in a serious deterioration in the condition of the roads. The Departmental communication, having pointed out the grave financial and other consequences which this would involve for the ratepayers of Roscommon and the community in general, went on to point out the position of the council under the Emergency Powers Order, and to say that I considered that the expenditure shown in the county manager's estimate was essential for the proper maintenance of the county's main road system in the interests of the public safety and the preservation of the State. The council, therefore, was asked to meet as soon as possible and to reconsider the position. In this connection, the Secretary to the Department wound up his letter by saying:—

"The security of the State and the protection of its citizens must always remain the primary duty of any Government and in fulfilling this duty the Government will expect and must if necessary demand the co-operation of every citizen and every local authority within the State."

I think that statement is unchallengeable, and will not be questioned by any Deputy in this House. The letter went on to say:—

"The Minister trusts that on reconsideration the county council will realise that it would be a retrograde step to allow the roads to deteriorate, and that any apparent saving at the present time would lead to much heavier expenditure in subsequent years."

The county council met on Thursday, May 25th, and, notwithstanding what we had done to arouse the majority of the councillors to a proper appreciation of their obligations to the State and to the community in these critical times, decided to persist in their refusal to provide adequately for the maintenance of their main roads. Accordingly, there was nothing left for me to do, as soon as I became officially aware of the decision which the majority group in the council had taken, but to dissolve the body, which I did on June 2nd.

I should like to say that, as Minister for Local Government, I can see no justification for keeping in existence any local authority which refuses to discharge the duties imposed on it by statute. I should say also that in present circumstances I would regard as a very grave matter the refusal of any local authority to provide adequately for the maintenance of its main road system. Everybody knows that in the last analysis the defence of this country might depend upon the provision of adequate transport and adequate communications, and we cannot allow this question of the upkeep and maintenance of our main roads to become the sport and plaything and pawn in local parish pump politics. So far as I am concerned, that will not be allowed. I mentioned the Emergency Powers Order. I should like to direct the attention of Deputies who are members of local authorities, and who may be inclined to take up the same attitude in regard to this matter of road maintenance as was taken up by the Roscommon County Council, to Articles 69 and 81 of that Order, particularly to Article 81, because that Article gives the Minister for Local Government power to dissolve any county council, without any inquiry whatsoever, which refuses to carry out works which he is satisfied are essential for the public safety and the preservation of the State. I want to say that, as long as I am Minister for Local Government, if a similar situation should arise again in any other county I am not going to put the ratepayers of that county to the expense of a local inquiry. I do not think it is necessary, and I am not going to do it. If any county council refuses to discharge what I regard as its paramount public duty in those circumstances to maintain its roads in a proper condition, then I shall exercise the powers given to me by the Dáil under the Emergency Powers Order, 1939.

I trust that, having said that and having made my attitude clear, we will have that co-operation with the Department, and particularly with the engineers of the Department, on the part of the local authorities which is necessary if, in those very difficult times, we are going to maintain our roads in the best possible condition we can with the financial and material resources which we have at our disposal.

In the current year, the provision made by county councils out of their rates for the maintenance of main and county roads approximated to the amount raised in the past year, that is about £1,250,000, to which will be added grants from the Road Fund towards the maintenance of main roads, totalling £250,000. Of course, this is not the only provision which is made for the maintenance and improvement of roads. In the past financial year, grants for employment schemes on roads and footpaths were given from the Employment and Emergency Schemes Vote totalling £165,000 odd in urban areas and £207,000 odd in rural areas. These amounts were supplemented by local contributions amounting to £52,000 odd in urban areas, and £47,000 odd in rural areas.

I am glad to say that the general financial position of local bodies has been considerably strengthened by the recovery of arrears of annuities and the consequent repayments from the Guarantee Fund of local taxation grants which had been absorbed in the Fund to meet these arrears. In March last a further sum of £242,890 was issued in respect of arrears of annuities recovered in 1943. There was also a further improvement in the collection of revenue by county councils during the last financial year. The percentage of the rate collected at 31st March last was 89.1 per cent. as compared with 86.8 per cent. at 31st March, 1943. The proportion collected varied from 98.5 per cent in County Louth to 82.1 per cent in County Cork. In seven counties more than 95 per cent. of the warrants was collected within the year.

I trust that this improving trend will continue during the current year, and that there will be no county in which the rate collection will fall short of that which has been attained in County Louth. In present circumstances I can see very little justification for any person who withholds his rates from the local authorities in any county in Ireland. The money is very urgently required to provide for the upkeep of the local services, and where people wilfully withhold payment of the rates or over-hold them they are doing it at the expense of their neighbours. I trust that, throughout the country, we shall have a widespread recognition of the fact that any man who is in a position to pay his rates, even at considerable hardship to himself, and who refuses to meet his obligations in that regard is deserving of no public sympathy whatsoever.

Coming to the public health side of the Department, it is customary to refer to the vital statistics for the preceding year. Taking first the number of births in 1943, it is noteworthy that the number reached almost the level of the previous year. The year 1942, as the House will remember, was remarkable for a very large increase in births, the number being 9,337 over the year 1941. In 1943 the number was 65,702, or only 415 below the number for 1942. The number of marriages in 1943 was 17,350, or 120 less than in the previous year, but, as in the case of births, the year 1942 created a record for the greatest number of marriages registered in the country since 1878. At that time the marriage rate was 4.5 per thousand, as against the present rate of 5.9 per thousand, so that with a relatively smaller population now the present marriage rate is appreciably higher. I should say that the statistics for 1943 are as yet only provisional. They have not yet been fully tabulated. That applies particularly to the mortality statistics, where comparison of the various causes of deaths in 1943 as compared with those in 1942 is not yet possible. The number of deaths registered in 1943 was 43,426. That rate, of course, is naturally affected by many causes; consequently, it fluctuates within fairly wide limits. For instance, as recently as 1937 the rate of 15.3 per thousand of the population was recorded. For 1943 the unrevised rate is 14.7 per thousand of the population.

Taking the year 1942 as a basis, we can say that one-third of the deaths in the country, approximately 15,000, are attributable to diseases of the heart and to senility. The number of deaths from tuberculosis, in the year 1942, showed a very high advance on the preceding years. In the last year's Vote I referred to investigations which had been made to try to ascertain the causes of the increase. No conclusive results could be drawn. Since then, everything possible is being done to extend facilities for treatment and to provide extra nourishment for sufferers from the disease who are undergoing treatment in their homes, and also to provide proper segregation of such patients from other members of their household.

Two other diseases which have a very serious effect on our vital statistics are enteritis and diphtheria. Both have exacted a high death toll among children in the past two years. Enteritis in a most virulent form has been confined mainly to the Dublin area, but diphtheria has been more widespread. In last year's Estimate I referred to a conference of medical experts which had been summoned by Dr. Ward to consider the problem of diarrhoea and enteritis in Dublin City. The investigations subsequently undertaken were carried out under the auspices of the Medical Research Council. In the course of the inquiries, which were carefully conducted, evidence was obtained which indicated that there had been a sharp decline in the amount of breast-feeding of infants in Dublin since 1938. In the case of breast-fed babies the incidence of diarrhoea and enteritis was found to be low in comparison with those artificially fed. The committee of medical experts, having considered the report of the investigations, recommended that every practical means should be employed to stimulate the breast-feeding of infants, the provision of additional nourishment for nursing mothers through dining centres of the voluntary organisations, and the early medical treatment of infants affected with the disease, and attention is being given to the possibility of doing these things.

As regards the principal infectious diseases, namely, typhus, typhoid, scarlet fever, diphtheria, and puerperal sepsis, there was an increase in the aggregate incidence in 1943 as compared with 1942. The total number of cases rose from 6,166 in 1942 to 7,349 in 1943, while the aggregate number of deaths rose from 381 to 414. This was entirely due to an increase in morbidity and mortality from diphtheria.

In 1943, the total number of cases of diphtheria was 4,585, or 1,732 more than in 1942, while the number of deaths rose by 42 to 309. The proportionate increase of cases in the rural areas was much greater than in the county boroughs and urban districts, being 77 per cent., as against 50 and 45 per cent. respectively, in the last mentioned areas. The case mortality in 1943, however, showed a substantial fall, being only 6.7 per cent. in 1943, as compared with 9.4 per cent. in 1942, and 11.4 per cent. in 1941.

Last year I referred to a severe outbreak of acute anterior poliomyelitis, generally known as infantile paralysis. The total number of cases notified during the year 1942 was 361, and the number of deaths was 75. The position for a time seemed extremely grave, but it is gratifying now to be able to state that there was a considerable decline in the disease in the year 1943. The total number of cases reported was 126. The number of deaths attributed to the disease is not yet available. In the first quarter of 1944, only four cases were reported.

Early in the present year, my Department convened a conference of medical superintendent and county medical officers of health. In opening the conference, Dr. Ward, Parliamentary Secretary, referred to some of the practical problems connected with public health administration, such as the recent outbreak of diarrhoea and enteritis in Dublin, to which I have already referred, the increased incidence of diphtheria and tuberculosis throughout the country, the spread of typhoid by typhoid carriers, and the effect on the health of the community at large of high extraction flour. In connection with the last-mentioned matter, Dr. Ward suggested that the disturbance of the calcium balance might be a substantial factor in the increase of tuberculosis, and he mentioned that Professor Dillon, of University College, Dublin, who is a recognised authority on calcium in connection with tuberculosis, had been good enough to undertake further investigations. During the conference, which lasted two days, there were two very important papers read and discussed: one by Dr. J.C. Saunders, Medical Superintendent Officer of Health, Cork, on "Health Education and Propaganda", and the other by Dr. M. F. Daly, County Medical Officer of Health, Wexford, on "The Prevention and Control of Infectious Disease, with special reference to diphtheria, typhoid and typhus." The subsequent discussions by the members of the conference were valuable, and the conference as a whole was most fruitful. It was the general wish of the members of the conference that conferences should be held from time to time, and it is accordingly proposed to hold another conference on medical matters next year.

I now come to building and other constructional works. The pace has slowed up considerably, but when allowance is made for the difficulties which are met with in securing essential materials, the extent of work carried out by local bodies during the past year is remarkable. The actual number of houses completed in the year was 1,686. In Dublin City 911 houses are at present under construction, and plans are being completed for approximately 800 further dwellings. In addition, there is in progress a scheme for reconditioning and converting existing tenement houses into self-contained flats. In many respects the accommodation is equal to that provided in new flats. The experiment, which was begun last year in Gardiner Street, is being extended to other areas. Up to the present, 78 separate dwellings have been provided in this manner. Work is at present in progress on 46 houses, and the reconditioning of 56 further dwellings has been decided upon. Reconstruction work of this nature is slow and difficult, as alternative accommodation has to be arranged for the families who are temporarily dispossessed. The problem is being handled as satisfactorily as possible by the corporation, to whom great credit is due for this work and for continuing house building at the rate at which it has been carried on during these difficult years, is due. In Cork, there are 90 houses in course of construction, and 12 in Waterford. In Limerick, a scheme of 336 houses has recently been completed.

Since April, 1943, local authorities have been engaged in carrying out a survey of housing conditions in their respective districts with a view to getting an up-to-date estimate of future needs. Up to the present about 20 rural areas and 60 urban areas have been surveyed and, on the basis of the returns furnished, it is estimated that about 29,000 houses will be required outside Dublin County Borough, and if the estimate of the Dublin Corporation of 21,000 new dwellings is reckoned, then about 53,000 are required to provide proper housing accommodation through the whole country. The problem, it will be seen, is a large one, and it is therefore all the more necessary to decide upon a definite rate of construction which will ensure its solution within a reasonable time.

The surveys which have been made and the steps which are being taken will harmonise with the arrangement recently made by the Government to ensure the execution on a planned basis of all building activities when the emergency is over and until normal conditions are restored. The planning and co-ordinating of all constructional activities will be undertaken with due regard to the importance of the various projects and to the extent of personnel and materials available. It will be the duty of the Department of Local Government and Public Health to obtain, as far as is reasonably possible, priority for housing schemes for, say, a period of five years. In view of the extent of the housing problem in Dublin it is considered that a five-year programme should provide for at least 11,000 new houses. This is somewhat higher, I grant, than the rate of building contemplated by the Corporation of Dublin but an average of 2,200 houses a year would approximate to the number of houses which were completed by the corporation in the financial year ended 31st March, 1938, namely, 2,336. The estimate is based on the assumption that adequate building materials will be available in the first year of the programme and that supplies will become, and remain, regular for the remainder of the five-year period.

As a measure of the rate of progress which may be expected when building is resumed, it may be of interest to set out the progress made by local authorities in the construction of houses from 1933 to 1939, that is, in the years immediately following the increased State aid provided under the (Housing (Financial and Miscellaneous Provisions) Act, 1932. For the financial year 1933-34 the number of dwellings provided was 3,743; in 1934-35 the number was 6,803; in 1935-36, 6,246; in 1936-37, 6,094; in 1937-38, 4,890; in 1938-39, 6,931; and in 1939-40, 5,383. The total number provided in the seven years was 40,090, of which 23,564 were erected in urban areas and 16,526 in rural areas. It is doubtful if a similar rate of progress can be achieved immediately after the emergency when materials may not be in full supply but, on the other hand, there will be the advantage of having at our disposal fully developed sources of production of native materials which were started subsequent to 1932. I refer particularly to the cement and cement products industries. These should afford ample supplies provided coal is obtainable. Other products which are largely used for house building have also been developed to a considerable extent, such as tiles and slates for roofing, ranges, grates, rainwater goods, etc., but in the case of some of these products their manufacture is dependent upon the import of raw materials.

Before leaving housing, I should mention that the housing surveys which have been made indicate in many cases that there is a large number of houses which could be reconditioned and brought up to a proper standard of fitness at an economic price. In the conditions which have prevailed in past years, local bodies have been somewhat reluctant to avail of their powers to acquire houses that are in process of decay to be made fit for habitation. Grants were provided for this purpose under the Housing and Labourers Act, 1937, but they have been availed of only to a very small extent. The steps which have been taken by the Dublin Corporation show what can be achieved by reconditioning existing houses when taken over by the local authority, and it is proposed to press upon local authorities to give this aspect of the housing problem much closer attention. It is, perhaps, in this direction during this period of limited production that greatest progress can be made.

Where housing surveys have been completed the local authorities have been advised to select suitable building sites and to arrange for their acquisition so that when conditions permit an uninterrupted building programme can be carried out until the housing needs of their districts have been fully satisfied. Where sites have already been acquired local bodies are being encouraged to develop them in advance of building development.

The planning of schemes to be undertaken after the war also includes water supply schemes and sewerage works. The difficulties encountered in carrying out these works have been even greater than in house building. Nevertheless, work is at present in progress on 19 schemes, the aggregate cost of which will be £220,000, while 40 further schemes estimated to cost approximately £2,000,000 have been planned. The position was eased somewhat towards the end of the last year by the import of a limited quantity of asbestos cement pipes for water supplies, together with the necessary cast-iron and rubber joint material. The continuance, however, of the import of such supplies is very uncertain, while plant such as pumps, mechanical filters, etc., is practically unobtainable.

The provision of further hospitals has been under examination in connection with the formulation of a five-year programme of public works. It must be emphasised, however, that the extension of hospitalisation in the post-emergency period will be influenced largely by the ability of the Hospitals Trust Fund to finance the erection of new hospitals. The present position in that respect is very uncertain as the present capital of the fund is almost entirely earmarked for endowment of the voluntary hospitals whose annual deficits still continue to be in the neighbourhood of £200,000. It will be absolutely impossible to proceed with the provision of all the hospital accommodation which has been envisaged and where the needs are most pressing it will be necessary that projects should get absolute priority. The prospect has somewhat improved in the past year by the increased revenue derived by the fund from the proceeds of sweepstakes. In 1943 the receipts from sweepstakes amounted to £61,497 while in respect of the two sweepstakes held in the present year the fund benefited to the extent of £60,944. For that result we are indebted to Hospitals Trust Limited and I would like to express appreciation of their successful effort in continuing to raise further funds for the benefit of the hospitals.

The planning of future road schemes has also been engaging close attention. Special works are being prepared to provide additional employment in the event of any considerable extension of unemployment taking place and there is also what I may call long-term planning of works to secure that the road system will develop according to approved or modern standards.

The Department has envisaged the gradual establishment under a com prehensive plan of modern highways capable of carrying the denser and faster motor traffic that is expected to develop after the emergency. This will involve the widening, realignment and resurfacing, where necessary, of the existing arterial roads, the construction of diversions and so on. To this end the Department has prepared a plan providing for the classification of all public roads into four classes and has laid down standards of lay-out construction appropriate to each class.

Class 1 roads would be of the dual carriageway type, having two 24 ft. carriageways, a 14 ft. central strip and two 14 ft. verges flanked by cycle tracks and footpaths on each side. Class 2 roads would have a 24 ft. carriageway, two 14 ft. verges and two cycle tracks and footpaths; class 3 roads, a 20 ft. carriageway, two verges 10 to 12 ft. wide, and one cycle track and footpaths; and class 4 roads, an 18 ft. carriageway and two 6 ft. verges.

The aim is to secure that the land and rights of way required for the ultimate development of a road to a standard suitable for the traffic conditions which may be expected to develop over, say, the next 50 years, will become known as soon as surveyors have carried out the necessary surveys. The powers conferred by the Town and Regional Planning Acts can be availed of to safeguard the prospective needs of the road authority. The immediate task of the survey authorities will be to produce road plans in accordance with the standards laid down and which have been communicated to them. When these plans are in existence, the rate of progress in making the new roads will depend on many factors, such as finance, material, machinery and labour. Practical difficulties may prevent anything approaching the construction, mile by mile, of a continuous newly-defined road but, even then, the standards will secure that any isolated works which can be readily carried out will form sections which will integrate harmoniously with the whole road when it is ultimately completed.

The Estimate makes provision on the same basis as the previous year for the supply of fuel for necessitous families. A sum of £170,000 is also included in the Estimate for the making of grants to public assistance authorities for the provision of assistance in kind to certain recipients of home assistance. The grant is being administered on the same basis as last year. A new grant has been introduced in the present year, namely, a sum of £230,000, towards the provision of supplemental allowances to certain old age pensioners, to certain blind pensioners and their dependent children, and to certain recipients of disablement benefit under the National Health Insurance Acts and their dependent children. The scheme took effect from the 1st April last. The public assistance authority will be recouped out of the grant to the extent of 75 per cent. of the expenditure incurred. In many cases the necessity for supplementary allowances by the public assistance authority should not exist because of the general economic circumstances of the household to which the pensioner or the person in receipt of disablement benefit belongs. The allowances are to be made on a weekly basis and are not to exceed the following rates:—Old age pensioners, 2/6 a week; blind pensioners, 2/6 a week; dependent children of blind pensioners, 1/6 a week; recipients of disablement benefit, 2/6 a week; and dependent children of recipients of disablement benefit, 1/6 a week.

It is not necessary to go into any detail as regards the other grants in the Estimate except the provision made for the treatment of tuberculosis. As I have already said, every means at our disposal is being used to deal with this problem. A great handicap in fighting the disease is the present shortage of institutional accommodation. The full measure of improvements to which I adverted last year have not yet been achieved, as the difficulties in carrying out constructional works have greatly increased, and some further time is likely to elapse before the position can be fully remedied. Recently, St. Mary's Preventorium, Ballyroan, Rathfarnham, was opened under the auspices of the Anti-Tuberculosis Section of the Red Cross.

What about the 100 persons who are waiting for sanatorium treatment in the city?

The Deputy is not doing anything to help them. He is only cashing in on their needs.

There are 100 persons waiting for sanatorium treatment.

Why does not the Deputy go out and build a sanatorium?

I have a right to draw your attention to that fact.

Why not leave these poor people alone?

Leave them to go round Dublin looking for sanatorium treatment?

We are doing everything possible to deal with that problem, and we got no help in this or any other social service from the Deputy.

I want to draw the Minister's attention——

Acting-Chairman

Order. Deputy Byrne must keep order in the House.

I want to draw the Minister's attention in the best possible way to the facts.

Acting-Chairman

The Deputy must keep silent.

There are 100 persons waiting for treatment in Dublin City.

I want to tell the House that I am well aware of the existence and of the gravity of this problem. We are doing everything possible to find a solution for it. But we are only human. We have got to do the work, not merely talk about it.

Why not buy some of the empty mansions and give these people a chance?

This is the Deputy's old game. He wants to be suspended.

I was referring to St. Mary's Preventorium, Ballyroan, Rathfarnham, when I was interrupted. The preventorium is in charge of the Sisters of Charity, and will deal with cases of primary tuberculosis amongst children.

Extensions and improvements are either in progress or will shortly be begun at the following institutions:— Rialto Hospital, Dublin; Peamount Sanatorium; Teach Ultain Hospital, Dublin; Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital, Dun Laoghaire; Woodlands Sanatorium, Galway; St. Teresa's Sanatorium, County Mayo, and the County Sanatorium, Monaghan. An institution of 320 beds to replace Crooksling Sanatorium is to be provided in Ballyowen, Lucan. An architectural competition is being held to secure the best design available, and the conditions of the competition have been published widely in this country, and in English and American journals. The competition will not be completed until the middle of next year.

In connection with the provision of special foods for necessitous tuberculosis patients awaiting admission to institutions or following discharge after an approved period of institutional treatment, the Department issued in February last a further circular letter urging that immediate steps be taken by local authorities to arrange for as full a working of the scheme as possible. At the same time, the classes of necessitous tuberculosis patients eligible for the grant of extra nourishment were extended, and the present position is that the following categories are regarded as eligible for such assistance:—

(1) patients who are awaiting or who have received institutional treatment and who have agreed to undergo an institutional treatment recommended by the tuberculosis officer from time to time;

(2) chronic patients who undertake to accept institutional treatment when required to do so by the tuberculosis officer;

(3) patients who can be isolated at home and for whom domiciliary or dispensary treatment is considered preferable by the tuberculosis officer.

The allowances which may be made are 3½ pints of milk, 1/2 lb. of butter and seven eggs per patient per week. The allowances in every case are to be regarded as additional to any quantities to which persons are entitled under any State rationing scheme.

Under the terms of the circular issued on the 31st March, 1943, the expenditure on bed and bedding for the purposes of admission to recoupment from the national tuberculosis grant was limited to £4 in any one case, but this figure has recently been revised and the present limitation is £10 in any one case.

There is one other item in the Estimate to which I will refer and that is the sum of £98,000 for construction and maintenance of roads and drains in connection with bogs acquired by county councils. The turf production schemes of county councils are the most important contributors to the national pool under the control of Fuel Importers, Ltd., to meet the domestic requirements of the non-turf areas. Since the inception of these schemes in 1941, the councils have produced approximately 1,500,000 tons of turf of which about 1,250,000 tons have been sold up to the 30th April last. These amounts do not include production in the present year under county council schemes.

The counties which are producing the largest quantities of turf for the non-turf areas are Galway, Mayo, Roscommon, Clare, Kerry, Laoighis, Offaly, Westmeath, Longford and Donegal. Between them, these counties supply about six-sevenths of the total quantities sent by county councils to Fuel Importers, Ltd. Other counties supplying Fuel Importers, Ltd., are Clare, Cork, Meath, Sligo, Tipperary North and Westmeath. The remainder of the counties may be regarded as producing for their own institutional requirements with, in some cases, surpluses for other purchasers.

It had been estimated that a total county council production of about 425,000 tons this year would, after supplying the local institutions, meet the requirements for domestic purposes of Fuel Importers, Ltd., in the non-turf areas and leave a balance for sale locally. On present reckonings, there seems to be little doubt that this quantity would be available but, with the further curtailment of coal supplies for industrial purposes, the fuel position has become very grave and every effort must be made in the next few weeks to raise turf production to a still higher level.

In that connection, I may remind the House that the Minister for Industry and Commerce indicated during the week that it would be necessary for us to find an additional 200,000 tons of turf for industrial purposes. That is a quantity which did not enter into our reckoning when we were preparing our estimates and arranging our plan of campaign for the current season. That is an amount which must be produced over and above the amount for which we were budgeting during the present turf campaign. It represents an approximate increase of 50 per cent. on the figure of 425,000 tons which I have mentioned. It is essential that every effort should be made by every worker engaged in turf production to reach that figure. If we do not reach it, there may be some danger that our existing turf ration in urban areas, meagre as it is, will have to be reduced or, alternatively, that there will be a considerable increase in unemployment. The very existence, not to say the comfort and convenience, of a large number of people depends, therefore, on our getting the fullest possible output of turf from every bog in the country during the few weeks of the turf-cutting season that remain. I, myself, have made personal representations to all the principal officers engaged in this campaign and the Taoiseach has personally written to them impressing upon them the importance of leaving nothing undone to secure the fullest possible output of turf in all our bogs in the few weeks that remain. I know that those engaged in producing turf will regard their task as one of the utmost importance to the nation and I am certain that they will give 100 per cent. of their capacity to ensure that the additional 200,000 tons of turf which we require for industrial purposes will be forthcoming.

I think that the treatment of T.B. cases could be speeded up. I admit that the Minister and his Department have done a great deal of very valuable work. However, I am not satisfied that ample use is being made of the Hospitals Trust Fund. I think that more use could be made of it and, as the disease is so infectious and so dangerous, every effort should be made to have early treatment provided for suspected cases, especially as it is not now possible for patients to go to Switzerland or other such places. It is essential that all the treatment which science has approved as suitable for those patients should be made available to them at the earliest possible moment. I urge that the Minister should allow no obstacle to be placed in his way in proceeding with the work. I am sure that the House would be only too glad to give him all the facilities and help he would require in order to achieve that object.

I listened with pleasure to the Minister's plans for road development. All I shall say is that we must wait and see. What the Minister has said will not happen right away. It would be brought about in patches. It is important that our highways should reach a certain standard. Since the emergency, deterioration has set in in a large number of counties. No matter what anybody may say, I think that it is important that the roads should be maintained, because, if they are allowed to get into disrepair, the expenditure will be all the greater at a later stage and we should be penny wise and pound foolish. I think that I am correct in saying that the allowances to the blind and old age pensioners and under the national health insurance scheme are confined to the urban areas.

No. Those are cash allowances for rural areas.

Do they get them automatically?

No. They must apply to the local assistance authority.

I am glad that they are payable in the rural areas because the cost of living has increased so much that it was very hard for those people to carry on on the amount allowed. On the question of turf production, in so far as the Minister is responsible for the activities of the county surveyors, I should like him to urge upon them and the other people responsible that, where land is acquired under some order by a county council, compensation should be quickly paid. There is great difference in the value of the land and bogs which are acquired. In some districts, it is only high bog, which is not suitable for grazing, which is acquired. In other districts, as in Longford, very valuable grazing land has been taken over—what is known as clover turf, which was excellent grazing and feeding land. It is now utilised as a spread-bank for the drying and winning of the turf and it is left in a very bad and unsightly condition. I regret to say that county council workers are not as careful of the land as they should be. If an ordinary citizen causes waste, he can be adequately dealt with. I think the Minister should give a general direction to county surveyors that they must not cause waste, especially where the land before cutting was suitable for grazing and meadowing.

I know at least five farms that were entered on by the county council much against their owners' wishes. I admit that there was excellent turf on them, and that the county council was right to go in to get it, but, having acquired this turbary under compulsory powers, I think the compensation that was offered for the damage done was totally inadequate. It is all very fine to talk about asking the people to make sacrifices and to play their part in this, that and the other. The position, however, is that neither the county council worker nor the lorry driver will work unless they are adequately paid, and neither will the railway company carry the turf unless it gets ample compensation. Why, therefore, should the farmer be the only one to lose on turf development? I put it to the Minister that very grave losses are being sustained by farmers whose lands have been entered upon. I admit, of course, that owing to the different types of land entered upon it would be hard to make a hard and fast regulation. In cases where the land is of the clover kind, land of good grazing quality, it must be admitted that its value is far in excess of the land from which turf is ordinarily got. My submission is that farmers should not be asked to bear all the loss. In some cases there is a good deal of hurried excavation. It seems to be the plan to cut out all the turf you can, and to leave the bottom in a dangerous condition. I hold that the cut-away part should be properly levelled and not left in a dangerous condition, full of holes, for cattle and horses. Since the consumer in the City of Dublin has to pay 64/- per ton for turf, why should not the farmer be adequately compensated for the loss that he has sustained? I do not want to delay the House further, but I do put it to the Minister that the State should see to it that no wrong is done to farmers who are supplying this particular need.

There are a few matters which concern my constituency which I want to refer to. On this Estimate we have, so to speak, the Minister in the dock, and this is an opportunity that we have for voicing complaints from our areas. So far as hospital accommodation is concerned, I do not think that any county has as much cause for complaint as Galway. I would like to know from the Minister, is there any hope of anything being done to improve the situation there? I hate repeating what I said on this when the Estimate was before the House last year. But in Galway the position as regards hospital accommodation is becoming worse every day. Since I spoke on the Estimate last year, I was a patient in the hospital myself for some time. In my opinion it is a disgrace to civilisation to see the conditions under which the patients have to try to exist and the doctors and nurses to do their work. It is something terrible. I do not think anything like it exists in any other county. You have from 50 to 60 patients herded in wards which have accommodation only for 25 or 30 beds. You have patients on the floor and nurses lying over them trying to take their temperature and attend to them in other ways. The doctors when examining a patient have to shove another patient under a bed. Is there any hope that anything will be done to remedy that position in Galway hospital?

The position as regards T.B. is also very bad. I suppose that what applies to Galway applies also to other counties so far as this matter is concerned. I have had scores of letters from patients in the hospital suffering from T.B., asking if there is any hope that they will be transferred to the sanatorium we have at Woodlands or to some other sanatorium. The county medical officer of health in Galway tells me that there are no beds available. Those patients are in the Central Hospital in Galway amongst other patients. Deputies know how that tends to spread the disease. Some of them eventually go home and the disease is spread amongst their brothers and sisters. That is what is helping to spread the disease in many areas so far as Galway is concerned. I am sure that Deputy Beegan and the other representatives of the county will agree with me that Galway, above any other county, needs looking after in that respect. Something should be done to relieve the position there. As it is it is a scandal. At the present time it may not be possible to do much but I do hope that the Minister will soon be able to do something to relieve the situation in Galway.

There is another matter which interests the County Galway very much—I imagine the same applies all over the country—and that is the condition of the roads. There has been so much said about this that I fear it is useless referring to it again. I am afraid the Minister does not intend to do anything. In the County Galway the roads are tarred in such a way that it is dangerous for horses to travel on them. I have spoken about this to our county surveyor who is an excellent man. Deputies on the Government Benches and myself have asked him again and again to do something. He tells us that he is doing his best, but then the matter is shoved on to the shoulders of somebody else. At the meetings of the county council, the members ask those of us who are members of the Dáil why we do not do something about it with the Minister. I am putting it to the Minister now he should do something, that at least there should be a strip provided on the sides of the roads so that horses can travel in safety. The case made against that is that it is not possible to do it, that it would injure the roads. Deputies, I am sure, realise that so far as transport is concerned, we are getting back to the position when we have almost as much horse traffic on the roads as we had in the old days. The roads, however, appear to be made suitable for the use of everybody except the ratepayers who have to bear the cost of their upkeep.

Deputy MacEoin raised an important point about the cutting of turf. People in my county have to complain about that, too. I know of cases in my county where lea land and, to a certain extent, good grazing land, was taken over because there was a certain amount of turf underneath. The land has been stripped and the turf is being cut. The amount of compensation paid to the owners of the land, on the estimate of the engineers, is some small thing like 3d. per ton. I think that is wholly unfair to the people concerned, not that I want to make the point that the land should not be used for getting turf out of it. No man will try to say that that is what I mean, but I do say that it is wholly unfair to a man who has produced a certain quantity of turf, with his four sons, as private producer, that the council in the area should come in on his bog and use it, with the result that his sons are now working for the council.

As a member of the Galway County Council, I would say that the private producers and the workers for the private producers produce more turf and work harder than those who are working for the county councils or for any combine of that sort. At the least, the private producer should not be prohibited from working and the council should not be unfair where the private producer says that he himself is going to cut certain banks of turf. That is one complaint that there is in Galway. Again, where good grazing land is taken over, the 3d. a ton compensation given is not by any means adequate. It is not fair to the individual concerned. There are also complaints about rights of way and people travelling over the land. It may be strange that I could make that complaint myself, not that I wish to make it a personal matter.

Is that a matter for the Minister?

Yes, as it is a question of county council employees travelling over a man's land, and at the end of the year the council gives him something like £1 compensation. That is definitely a matter for the Minister, though I do not want to make any personal complaint. The Minister rules the county council in matters like that and when we go to the county council they tell us to go to the Minister. When we come here, we meet the Minister and it is then we must try to put these cases before him, so I hope that he will give his attention to the points I have raised.

Deputy MacEoin made reference to those who come into the bogs to get turf and do not care about anything else. So long as they get a year's turf, they do not mind if they leave a big hole in the bog, which fills up with water. Men who have land adjoining find that their stock ramble in and eventually fall into those holes and are drowned. The county council say they are not responsible, so I hope the Minister will see that no bog-holes are left to fill with water and be a danger to stock.

There are two Votes in this House—those for Lands and Local Government—which usually evoke speeches from various sides of the House. I do not wish to deal with the incidence of tuberculosis, nor do I wish to talk about the turf question. I will leave those matters to those who are more conversant with them. I wish to deal briefly with the question of housing, as the Minister has stressed it in his opening speech. Has he in his plans considered the question of raw materials for future building schemes, particularly in our large cities and towns? We, in Cork, are faced with a tremendous difficulty. We have in existence a plan for housing, but there arises the question of the raw materials. The Minister must be aware of the scarcity of cement, timber and other commodities necessary for building. We are very concerned about those plans which the Minister may have in the archives of his Department.

We do not expect wonders from the Government, as it is only a human institution, like all other institutions, and is faced with the same kind of difficulties; but we expect something in the nature of information that, by negotiation with cross-Channel firms or otherwise, any materials that are required will be made available as soon as possible. Under the Cork Corporation, we have a committee dealing with the position in connection with post-war problems, as they will affect our own situation. We want to be able to dovetail any schemes we have into the great national plan and I am anxious, therefore, to have some information from the Minister when he is replying. I do not expect a lot of detail, but I would like to have his assurance that the matter is having the serious consideration of his Department.

I do not intend to deal with the incidence of tuberculosis, as I suppose 50 or 60 per cent. of the speakers during this debate will do so. The gentleman's agreement in regard to the time limit for speeches should be observed on this Estimate. Most of the money we are dealing with has been already spent and we are dealing with what might be called last year's Estimates.

There is one point to which I would like the Minister to give consideration. I raised it here many years ago and intend to keep hammering at it until something is done. I refer to the old age pensions. The means test which is imposed discourages decent employers throughout the country from granting even small allowances to those who have been in their employment over a long period of years. Every member of this House is aware that there is a limit fixed, 16/-, as a means test; and if any person, male or female, who has attained the age of 70, has been a prudent and good citizen and has made some little preparation for the rainy day, perhaps by paying something like 1/8 or 1/10 per week to secure superannuation of 15/- or 16/- per week at 70, that person will not receive a State pension of 10/- a week. That fact cannot be denied.

The prudent and provident citizen who is the back-bone of the State and prepares for the rainy day by way of a weekly subscription to a trade union, a provident society or some other undertaking, thus ensures for himself or herself on attaining the age of 70— or sometimes after 40 years' payment —a superannuation of 15/- a week. Now, on that account, they will not get 1/- in old age pension, although they may have contributed all their lives in taxation, local and national. Let me contrast with that the position of one who has been a nuisance to the local community, who has been a charge on the rates, perhaps a national charge, brought up in the police courts for robbery and other crimes. When that person attains the age of 70, he or she gets a full State pension of 10/- a week.

I move to report progress.

Progress reported; the Committee to sit again on Tuesday, 20th June.
The Dáil adjourned at 9 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Tuesday, 20th June, 1944.
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