Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 26 Jun 1945

Vol. 97 No. 15

Committee on Finance. - Vote 64—Army Pensions.

Minister for Defence (Mr. Traynor)

I move:—

That a sum not exceeding £406,300 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending the 31st day of March, 1946, for Wound and Disability Pensions. Further Pensions and Married Pensions, Allowances and Gratuities (No. 26 of 1923, No. 12 of 1927, No. 24 of 1932, No. 15 of 1937, No. 2 of 1941 and No. 14 of 1943); Military Service Pensions, Allowances and Gratuities (No. 48 of 1924, No. 26 of 1932, No. 43 of 1934, No. 33 of 1938 and No. 5 of 1944); Pensions, Allowances and Gratuities (No. 37 of 1936); Payments in respect of Compensation for Members of the Local Defence Force (No. 28 of 1939); and for sundry Contributions and Expenses in respect thereof, etc.

The explanation for this Estimate for £632,300 is, sub-head by sub-head, as follows:—

Sub-heads A and B provide for the salaries, allowances and expenses of the Army Pensions Board and its administrative staff. This board, set up by the Army Pensions Act, 1927, deals with applications for pensions under the various Army Pensions Acts, and for compensation in respect of injuries to members of the voluntary emergency organisations and for injured seamen. Its main work, however, at present consists in dealing with applications for wound and disability pensions from members of the Defence Forces and with re-examining persons in receipt of temporary pensions. Owing to the large volume of applications made by soldiers who had been discharged medically unfit from the Army during the emergency, it was found that the work of the board was considerably in arrear, and the problem gave rise to much concern.

Up to this time all applicants were examined personally in Dublin by the board, and where they were too ill to attend, the board travelled to examine them locally. In order to get over the problem of overhauling the arrears, it was decided to appoint medical practitioners all over the country as pensions medical officers to examine cases selected by the board and to report to the board the result of their medical examinations. On their reports the board were able to assess the degree of disablement and to decide if the disability was or was not attributable to service. I am glad to be able to report that, through this system of examination and through the speeding up of the work by the board, the arrears have now been overhauled and the work of determining the merits of applications is almost normal. By means of the pensions medical officers examining applicants locally all claims in the counties of Cork, Clare, Tipperary, Limerick, Kerry and Galway have been practically cleared. The increase in this sub-head is a normal incidence of the pay of the administrative staff.

Sub-heads C and D deal with the salaries, allowances and expenses of the Referee and Advisory Committee with their administrative staff. The provision only covers about ten days' employment during the financial year for the Referee and the Advisory Committee, but that, in view of recent events, will not now be adequate. The Estimate was framed before the decision of the Supreme Court in the McCarthy and Cuthbert cases at the end of December, 1944, and, as a result of that decision, 74 cases have to be reinvestigated in accordance with the strict legal procedure prescribed by the Act of 1934. Moreover, as the Minister has, under the Act of 1945, divested himself of powers to review after the 1st January, 1946, it is likely that many applications for review will come to hand by that date, and consequently the Referee may be engaged for some time on such reviews. Further, the date for application under the Act of 1934 has been extended and this again will entail more work for the Referee. In such circumstances it is more than likely that the work of reinvestigating claims and appeals will occupy the greater part of the year, and accordingly a Supplementary Estimate may be required at a later date.

Sub-head E provides for the payment of pensions to members of the Army and the I.R.A. disabled by wounds or disease due to service. The Acts involved are those of 1923, 1927, 1932, 1937, 1941 and 1943. The Estimate provides for 1,296 such pensions already under payment at an annual cost of £99,149 and for an additional number of 414 such pensions during the year 1945-46 at an approximate cost, including arrears, of £71,755. The sub-head also provides for a sum of £270 for gratuities in respect of wounds which do not reach the relevant minimum of 20 per cent. disablement required for the grant of a pension. Hence, for old and new pensions, with gratuities in respect of wounds and disease, there is required a sum of £171,174 to meet statutory commitments for the year, but from that is deducted a sum of £2,174 in respect of deaths which may occur within the year, so that the net sum required for this sub-head is £169,000. The increase under this heading is entirely due to an increase in the number of awards.

Sub-head F provides for the payment of pensions technically called "allowances" to the widows, orphans and other dependents of deceased members of the Army and the I.R.A. The Acts concerned are those of 1923, 1927, 1932, 1937 and 1943. There are 193 widows, 203 orphans and 98 other dependents at present in receipt of these allowances, at an annual cost of £18,036, and it is anticipated that by the end of the next financial year another 64 widows, 246 children and seven other dependents will qualify for them at a cost, including arrears, of £4,503. This sub-head also includes the sum of £300 in respect of educational fees and another of £220 in respect of remarriage gratuities, so that the gross sum required to meet statutory requirements in respect of allowances is £23,059. From this is deducted in respect of deaths a sum of £359, leaving the net sum required £22,700. The increase here is, therefore, also due to an increase in the number of grants.

Sub-head G provides for the supply and repair of artificial limbs, crutches, splints, boots and other such artificial aids for men in receipt of wound or disability pensions at a cost of £350, and the decrease of £50 is due to the fact that requirements under this heading are not as high as in the previous year.

Sub-head H deals with the cost of treating in hospitals applicants for wound and disability pensions and re-examining persons in receipt of temporary pensions. The main expenditure is incurred at St. Bricin's Hospital and the provision here made is to repay to the Army Vote the cost of such treatment. Similar expenses occur when applicants are examined locally by pensions medical officers, and the total cost of all such treatment throughout the year is expected to reach about £1,000.

Sub-head I provides for the payment of military service pensions under the Acts of 1924 and 1934. The Estimate proceeds on the basis of 3,088 pensions under payment under the 1924 Act at a cost of £147,864 and 10,813 under that of 1934, costing £275,536 annually. The Estimate provides for 100 fresh pensions under both Acts at a cost, including arrears, of £6,800. On a previous occasion it was mentioned that a number of service certificates had been granted to members of the I.R.A. who were resident overseas, but who had not claimed the resultant pensions. With the improvement of postal and other facilities, it is expected that a number of these persons will apply for their pensions during the year and for that contingency we are providing a sum of £17,276. The total gross sum provided for service pensions is, therefore, £447,476, but deductions in respect of abatements at £52,716, and in respect of deaths at £2,760, bring that amount down to £392,000. For reasons already given—the extension of the date for applications, the decision of the Supreme Court and the final date for appeals—it may happen that the forecast of 100 fresh cases will not be accurate, and for that reason it is possible that the provision under this sub-head may not be sufficient and that a Supplementary Estimate may eventually be necessary.

Sub-head J deals with the pensions and gratuities granted on retirement to members of the Regular Army and with pensions granted to the widows and orphans of deceased officers. Such pensions and gratuities are granted under the Defence Forces (Pensions) Schemes, 1937 to 1940. At present 45 officers, 80 other ranks, 18 widows and 41 orphans are receiving pensions under the scheme at a cost of £14,131 and provision has been made for new pensions for 34 officers, 84 other ranks and three families at a cost of £8,313. Where persons do not qualify for pensions, gratuities are payable and the sub-head provides £8,750 for officers and £3,850 for other ranks in that respect. Thus the gross sum required is £35,044, but abatements at £1,764 and deaths at £280 reduce that figure to £33,000. The increase of £9,000 here is due to the increase in the number of grants.

Sub-head K deals with the travelling and other expenses of (1) temporary pensioners under the Army Pensions Acts attending for medical re-examination, (2) new applicants under the same Acts attending for medical examination and (3) witnesses—such as verifying officers—appearing before the Referee in connection with the investigation of applications, under the Military Service Pensions Acts. The amount provided £2,000, shows a reduction under this heading of £1,095 on the previous Estimate, and is due to the fact that arrears have been overtaken by the Army Pensions Board and that the number of witnesses before the Referee may not be as high as heretofore.

Sub-head L for incidentals provides for a number of small items such as fees for pensions medical officers, fees for registrars, burials and for travelling expenses of the staff. The relatively large increase of £413 under this heading is due exclusively to the introduction of the system already described of examining applicants for pensions locally by specially appointed pensions medical officers.

Sub-head M deals exclusively with pensions — service and disability — awarded to persons who qualified under the Connaught Rangers (Pensions) Act, 1936. There are 34 service pensions costing £1,027 and one disability pension at £47. There are three other service pensions payable under this Act, but the pensioners for one reason or another cannot draw them during the war. About £420 is, therefore, a contingent liability under this sub-head, but no provision has been made for that amount.

Sub-head N deals with compensation and allowances to members of the L.D.F. injured in the course of their duties. There are 24 persons in receipt of this type of pension at a cost of £776 and we anticipate another 27 costing £1,249 before the end of the year. Travelling expenses and medical fees in respect of this force at a cost of £375 bring this sub-head up to £2,400.

Sub-head O treats of allowances to persons who served during Easter Week and who, through mental or bodily infirmity, or through old age, are totally incapacitated. Some 42 veterans are already in receipt of this allowance at a cost of £2,454 and another 15 are expected to qualify during the year, costing, with arrears, £1,546.

The Estimate as a whole may be summed up as follows:—

	£
1. Cost of 16,970 awards or pensions	619,876
2. Arrears on new pensions and contingencies	50,586
3. Cost of gratuities	13,090
4. Incidentals	5,025
5. Administrative expenses	3,776
Gross Amount:	692,353
6. Less deductions for deaths and abatements	60,053
Net Estimate:	£632,300

Mr. Dillon

Before the debate opens, may I remind the Minister that, at the conclusion of his statement on the Army Estimate, we forebore from a prolixity of questions relating to the business of the Defence Conference on his undertaking to direct the attention of the Taoiseach to the matter? Is it his intention to say anything now, as a result of his having directed the attention of the Taoiseach to the matter? Is there going to be a statement?

Mr. Traynor

I could not give a definite answer to that, but I have already drawn the attention of the Taoiseach to the Deputy's remarks on last Friday.

Mr. Dillon

And the Minister's position is that he leaves the matter to the Taoiseach to be dealt with or not in his discretion on his own Estimate?

Mr. Traynor

That is so.

Mr. Dillon

Possibly the debate on this Estimate may be joined by others shortly, but in the meantime I want to raise one particular matter which I believe is causing considerable anxiety to a number of Deputies and to a number of people in the country. On this Estimate is charged the disability pensions awarded to soldiers compulsorily retired from the Army on the ground that they are no longer physically capable of service as a result of tubercular infection acquired in the course of their duty. I want to suggest to the Minister that we should not impose on this Estimate any charge whatever under that head.

I think most employers who accept the obligations of Christian duty would prefer, when an employee of theirs falls ill, to retain him in their service at full pay until he is cured or called to his heavenly reward; but, in the imperfect world in which we live, and particularly in a comparatively poor country like this, there are few employers who can afford to do that, but the most impecunious amongst employers will strain every effort to supplement the national health insurance allowance by as generous a weekly pension as they can, in order to secure to their sick employee a weekly income approximating as closely as possible to the wages he would be able to earn if he had not fallen ill.

Fortunately, the Minister is in a position to tell us that the incidence of tuberculosis in the Army is not peculiarly high, and in fact does not compare unfavourably with the tuberculosis experience of the population as a whole. Recent propaganda conducted by the anti-tuberculosis branch of the Red Cross has, I think, carried conviction to the minds of all reasonable people in this country that tuberculosis is a disease which, if taken in its early stages, can, in the vast majority of cases, be comparatively easily cured, but if therapeutic measures are postponed until the disease has a grip, then the prospects of the patient are poor and, even if the case is taken early, if the patient is harassed by domestic anxiety, resultant on his impaired earning power, then his prospects of recovery are made proportionately less.

With that knowledge, we have the situation in the Army that we take into it only physically fit young men. We are entitled to assume that every boy going into the Army is not only healthy but strong. As a result of Army service, or at least in the course of Army Service, he contracts tuberculosis. We are entitled to assume—I think rightly—that the Army medical services are as good as the medical services in any other army, and, therefore, we may expect that any tubercular lesion in a young soldier will be discovered as early as, or earlier than, it would be were he in civilian life. When that discovery is made, his employer, the State, has a choice: either to say: "There is a boy who has got sick, who is suffering from tuberculosis, contracted while in our employment, and we intend to look after him and to cure him if it is humanly possible to do so and, if it fails us to cure him, then to ensure that he will suffer no financial loss as a result of his sickness up to the hour of his death"; or they can take an entirely different attitude and say: "This is a nuisance; one of these boys has got sick, and the sooner we can get him off our hands, at the lowest possible cost to the State, the better it will be for Army administration." Now, let me emphasise this at once. I do not believe that there is any man in this House who is more sympathetic to the difficulties of a soldier so situated than is the Minister for Defence, but he has to administer the regulations, and the danger of official life so far as such matters are concerned in this country is that Ministers and officers of State, when they desire to do something and find that their desire is cut across by an existing regulation, tend to shy away from the fact that they should amend that regulation or abolish it, in order to permit them to do what they themselves are satisfied is right and just. I am putting it to the Minister that whatever step is necessary in order to do the right and the just thing should be taken forthwith so as to ensure that the State will not throw on the scrap-heap a young boy who has contracted tuberculosis in its service, in view of the virtual certainty that if he is so thrown on the scrap-heap he is fated, not only to die, but to bring down to the grave with him five or six other people whom he will inevitably affect with the disease while he is in the process of dying.

I feel that we have a duty to ensure that any soldier who contracts pulmonary or bone tuberculosis, and particularly pulmonary tuberculosis, will be guaranteed, and that his relatives will be guaranteed, that he will receive the best treatment that it is possible to secure for him in properly equipped medical hospitals and that he is guaranteed of retention on the strength of the Army until he is completely cured or until he is taken away to his grave. Surely, that is not an unreasonable case to meet, and I do not think I exaggerate when I say that if each individual Deputy in this House were canvassed and given fully to understand the extra cost that that would involve and were given the task of personally defending that added cost, if needs be, by extra taxation in this country, you would not find a single Deputy from any side of this House who would not be prepared to undertake that duty. That being so, why do we longer wait while individuals are caught in the grievous dilemma of lying in hospitals waiting for the fatal decision that they must be transferred out of the Army and that their wives and children can no longer hope for the modest comfort they already enjoy? Now, I do not deny that I am thinking of particular cases at the moment amongst my own friends, because one never faces these problems so earnestly until one has experienced them oneself. I am thinking of a man, now dead, who was in the Army and who had to leave it. I remember well how we used to prevail upon him to go into a sanatorium, and there he would sojourn for a couple of months, but would become gradually more and more unhappy because during that time his wife would have to depend on the comparatively miserable pension that she could draw. Then he would leave the sanatorium and go back to the Army, only to have to leave it again and return to the sanatorium; and that went on until, eventually, we brought him to the cemetery.

I am thinking of another boy, with a wife and four children. He is at present getting the best of treatment in a military hospital. He is getting his pay, and his wife and children are getting their allowances. God knows, their affliction is enough in their present circumstances. They are consoled by the warm sympathy of the medical officer who is responsible for that treatment, and their friends and neighbours give them any help they can, but they are faced with the prospect that regulations require that inasmuch as the prognosis in this boy's case is not good and that there can be very little hope of a permanent cure, they are bound to face the prospect, very possibly, of his early death. For the few remaining months, however, that that boy has to live he must be taken out of the military hospital and leave the Army, and the suffering of those last months will be complicated by the agony of knowing that his wife and children must, in part at least, become a charge upon the public funds.

Now, as I have said, I am not blaming the Minister. I am perfectly certain that if these regulations were not in existence I could appeal directly to the Minister and get a fiat from him that that boy could remain in the military hospital until he was cured or had to leave it for the grave. The trouble is, however, that the regulations are there, and despite the best efforts of the medical officer and of everybody concerned, the pressure of the regulations will ultimately put that boy into a sanatorium or possibly into a county home, because there may not be a sanatorium available for him or because his case is so far advanced that no bed can be provided for him where there are hundreds of cases, not so far advanced, of people clamouring for beds in the hope of being cured. Surely it is no excess of consideration to ask that the Minister for Defence should be given power in cases of that kind to say to the medical officers: "Keep the boy there and do your best for him, so that you can let his people know that up to the end we did all that we could for him, probably more than they themselves could have done for him had he never joined the Army". Surely, if we are not to be moved by considerations of pity and sympathy, it is bad business to say to the people of this country: "If your boy joins the Army and falls ill, he will be thrown out because he is not suitable for cannon fodder any longer".

That is not the approach of this Oireachtas to the men in the Army. There is no intention in any part of this House, so far as I can make out, to look upon the men in the Army as anybody else than the sons of neighbours, who might be their own sons. Why, then, treat them, in the name of regulations, in any other way than we would treat our own relations? Surely, the best thing to do for that man is what we would do for our own children. It is true that, in the case of many employers, their financial position makes that impossible. The State, however, can afford to do its duty in this case, and the stewards of the State, assembled here, so far as I know, would like to do that duty. The Minister responsible, I believe, wants to do that duty. All that remains is to get rid of the regulation. Let us not paint the Department of Finance as the home of ogres. I do not think it is. I believe that if this case was put to it, it would see its force and would facilitate the necessary steps to make my suggestion practicable and effective.

There is one boy dying at the present moment. I am asking that he should be permitted to die in peace, and for that reason I am asking that the Minister should indicate now his intention of getting that regulation changed. I am asking that he should instruct medical officers generally that, in anticipation of that change, they might stretch a point to keep even those who are dying in comfortable surroundings. I think I can depend on the support of every Deputy in making that appeal, and fortified by that I press upon the Minister for Defence not only to act but to act promptly.

Mr. Everett

I rise to support the appeal which has been made to the Minister. I want to bring to his notice two cases out of a number. I have already brought one to his notice, that of a man who was receiving medical treatment in a military hospital. His number is 437842. After being in hospital for a considerable time, he was given the option of either finding a sanatorium or of going home to his mother. He decided to go home to his mother and was discharged from the Army. His mother is an aged woman in receipt of the old age pension. On his arrival home, he found that there was no nourishment there for him. He received no grant or pension, and there was no hope of getting anything for him other than home assistance from the county authority. I have already made an appeal to the Minister in that particular case. That man is at home now as a result of illness that he developed while in the Army. The State ought to be a model and a good employer, and the least to be expected from it is that it should maintain such a man while he is alive.

The other case I brought to the Minister's notice by way of Parliamentary Question. The Minister, in reply, regretted that he was unable to grant him a pension. The Pensions Board held that the disease the man was suffering from was not attributable to Army service, although it is admitted that he passed the medical test when joining the Army. The county medical officer of health certified, prior to his joining up, that he was not suffering from tuberculosis. He was discharged from the Army suffering from tuberculosis and yet was not granted a pension or an allowance. He has nothing to depend on now other than home assistance.

In civilian life, if an employee contracts a disease, and if it can be shown that the nature of his work aggravates the disease, he is entitled to compensation under the Workmen's Compensation Act. I admit, of course, the difficulty that arises in these cases, that while a man on joining may be physically fit he may not be medically fit. But when a man gives service to the State and has to leave because of the disease he contracts in that service, the State should, at least, make provision for him. In one of the cases that I have referred to it was a pity that the boy, instead of going home to his aged mother, was not sent to a sanatorium. There is nobody to look after him now except his aged mother. The most that the county manager will allow in a case of that kind is 10/- a week, and, in present circumstances, that sum is not sufficient to provide a sick person with much nourishment. I remember that, under the insurance code of 25 years ago, a sick person getting domiciliary treatment was allowed much more than 10/- a week. I appeal to the Minister to take these two cases in hand and do something for the persons concerned. I am certain that all Parties in the House, including the members of the Government, are sympathetic. My appeal is that something should be done pending the provision of a sanatorium for the treatment of these cases. The least the Government might do is to maintain the patients in their homes while awaiting admission to a sanatorium or a county hospital.

Mr. Heskin

I desire to support the appeals that have been made by the previous speakers. In one case that was brought to my notice the soldier was sent from the Army to a sanatorium, but whether or not he was completely cured when he eventually came home I cannot say. I know that at certain periods he visits the local hospital for treatment. The Department of Defence has made no provision to supply him with food or nourishment. The man was supposed to be medically fit when he joined the Army. He was discharged when he developed tuberculosis, and his maintenance is now a burden on the ratepayers. I hope that the Minister will bear in mind the suggestions that have been made to him by the Deputies who have already spoken on this matter.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Minister to conclude.

Mr. Traynor

On last Friday, when speaking on the Army Vote, I said that I was in consultation with the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Local Government and Public Health and had asked him to give me a memorandum on this whole subject. He has himself taken a very deep interest in this question of tuberculosis in the Army, and in his discussions with me he showed extreme sympathy and an extreme desire to do something to ease the matters which Deputies have mentioned here to-day. I mentioned on Friday that I was, unfortunately, bound by the regulations as they stand, and it was in the light of that that I had my discussions with the Parliamentary Secretary. I hope —and I can only say I hope — that arising out of whatever Deputy Ward will provide me with, I may be able to convince the Government of the absolute necessity of bringing in some form of legislation to deal with this particular phase of military service. While I am quite aware that at the present moment a man may slip into the service in fact suffering from this disease, I feel that the time is coming when, possibly, we will be able to secure instruments which will enable us, in cases where the disease is latent, to discover that and so prevent men in that state of health from joining the Army. As a result, whatever legislation we may be able to provide in the future, will enable us to deal with genuine types of cases that may develop in the course of service, cases in which there can be no dispute as to whether the disease was developed in the Army or not.

In respect to the question of boys developing this disease, perhaps as a result of their service, we find it very difficult to induce them to go to a sanatorium. On every occasion where we discover the disease developing the case is taken in hand as quickly as possible. We give reasonably prolonged treatment in the hospital until the time comes when we find, not having facilities to treat that type of case, it is desirable to get into a sanatorium. We find it is almost impossible in most cases to get boys to agree to go to a sanatorium and, as a result, they go back to their homes, which is most undesirable, and later the complaint goes about that the Army forced them out when the disease was developing. That is unfortunate for the Army authorities because, naturally, any medical man knowing the virulency of the disease is anxious to get every individual treatment as early as possible. We find it to be a great difficulty—one which we cannot overcome—because we cannot force people to go where they do not wish to go. If a man applies to go home we have to meet his wishes.

Mr. Dillon

Is that not because he is boarded out of the Army?

Mr. Traynor

As I explained, when the disease reaches a certain stage, a boy must be medically boarded out, and the moment a board finds that he is suffering from the disease, which will not permit him to serve as a fit soldier, then he is automatically discharged. The medical board naturally have to recommend discharge when a man is unfit for service, and, as a result, in a short time he is boarded out of the Army.

Mr. Dillon

If the Minister stated that if there was any doubt when a boy was suffering from the disease, and that if he was prepared to fall in with the Army requirements for an effective cure, he could remain in the service, surely there should be little difficulty in getting him into an Army hospital or sanatorium. It is only when the Army takes men off the strength, and states at the same time that they will have to go into a sanatorium, that there is a difficulty, where a soldier prefers to go home. If a case could go to a sanatorium, and remain under Army direction, the man would remain on the strength and his wife would get an allowance. I think in 99 per cent of such cases men would jump at such a chance. There is always hope of a cure.

Mr. Traynor

We have no means of treating tuberculosis cases in the Army hospitals.

Mr. Dillon

I think they do a fairly good job there.

Mr. Traynor

The Army authorities would not be prepared to endanger the lives of other patients. In fact, we had practically completed arrangements for treating cases and these arrangements would be completed long since but for the fact that we could not get certain types of equipment and fittings for St. Bricin's. The hospital was built by the Army authorities with all possible speed, but when it came to a question of equipping and finishing it, owing to the emergency, we were unable to complete it. I hope in the course of a short time that it will be finally completed. When it is completed we will be able to isolate these cases from the ordinary disease cases to be found in hospital wards. At present the military authorities have to take precautions in respect of other patients. From that point of view there is the danger of disease developing. We have to ensure, if there is any likelihood of an individual being cured, that we make every possible effort to get him into a sanatorium in his own district. The difficulties I mentioned are the usual difficulties which we are up against. We find men almost prepared physically to resist removal to some of these hospitals, where, in fact, if they went willingly, they might possibly recover.

Mr. Heskin

Some provision should be made for cases such as I mentioned. In one case the man was getting 6/- a week insurance and a relative was getting 6/- weekly as home help. Periodically that man had to go to a local hospital for treatment, thus endangering the health of the other patients.

Mr. Traynor

If the disease is attributable to military service a man in that position, who is completely disabled, is entitled to a pension of two guineas a week and his wife is entitled to a pension of 10/- a week. I hope in the near future to be able to amend the legislation in that respect, and to make provision for a further increase for children. At present children are not entitled to any allowance but, in the near future, I hope to be able to bring them in. If it can be proved that the disease developed in the course of Army service these cases are generously treated. I think two guineas a week and 10/- a week for a wife is a big advance on the amount formerly allowed and is reasonably generous for that type of case. As I mentioned in my opening remarks, I hope as a result of the discussions I have had with the Parliamentary Secretary to be able to produce something that may lead to amending legislation to rectify a position about which I admit I am concerned.

Mr. Dillon

Would the Minister indicate to medical officers where they have reasonable isolation facilities at their disposal, pending the result of the discussions with the Parliamentary Secretary, that they should liberally interpret the regulations requiring them to board out men suffering from tuberculosis?

Mr. Traynor

I can assure the Deputy that that is the feeling of the medical officers at present. I know that they stretch that sympathy to the limit. Perhaps when we get St. Bricin's sanatorium completed we may be able to do a little more and by that time I hope we will be getting nearer a point, as far as the regular type of soldier is concerned, when we will have that complete type of examination which will exclude any of the possible dangers I mentioned.

Mr. Dillon

And in the meantime the medical officers may assume that they can stretch the regulations in the way suggested?

Mr. Everett

Could the Minister not send a circular to the county medical officers of health suggesting more liberal treatment of men suffering from the disease?

Mr. Traynor

That is not my job.

Mr. Everett

It might have some bearing on their cases. It would do no harm, especially when they are looking for employment.

Mr. Traynor

I suggest that, if county councillors are sympathetically disposed towards that type of case, they should bring pressure to bear on the managers.

Mr. Everett

The amount is only 10/- a week.

Vote put and agreed to.