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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 24 Oct 1945

Vol. 98 No. 5

Lough Corrib Navigation Bill, 1945— Committee Stage.

Question proposed: "That Section 1 stand part of the Bill."

There are several provisions here which bring in County Mayo as a contributing factor and on this section I would like to put the views of the Mayo County Council before the Minister. We object to having to pay anything under this Bill, as we derive no benefit whatever from it. We say that no proper inquiry was held to ascertain who should be responsible for the costs, before the Bill was introduced. The only inquiry that was made by the Department, so far as we are aware, was a letter addressed to the Mayo County Council in 1941, in which the Minister stated that Galway County Council and Galway Corporation did not want to let County Mayo out of its liability under the former legislation.

There is no navigation carried on in County Mayo under this Bill, yet we are asked to pay for something from which we derive no benefit whatsoever. I would ask the Minister to introduce a section, on the Report Stage, or to amend the existing measure, to cut out the liability of County Mayo to contribute anything under this Bill. County Galway derives some benefit from it, as the canal in County Galway serves some purpose to the Galway people, but we are asked to pay money for works being carried on in County Galway and, naturally, we in Mayo object to contributing under those conditions.

There might be some sense in handing over this scheme, or in handing over the rivers affected, to the Drainage Board, as far as the County Mayo is concerned. It might serve some useful purpose to the people of Mayo, but the handing of it over to these trustees under a navigation scheme runs directly contrary to the interests of people concerned regarding drainage in County Mayo, as the water will have to be maintained at a certain level in this navigation scheme. I am sure it is 20 years since the part of Mayo affected by this particular scheme was used for navigation. Some kind of a pleasure steamer used to go up there about once a year, some 15 or 20 years ago, but that has been discontinued for very many years past and Mayo County now has no interest whatever in this particular scheme, though we are being saddled with the cost of it to the extent of one-tenth, under this particular Bill.

We are also left in doubt as to the position regarding the arrears under the old trustees. When we were deriving no benefit under the Bill in the County Mayo, we had no representatives from the County Mayo on the former board of trustees. I understand a considerable amount of arrears is due by the County Mayo under the old legislation and this Bill does not say what is to happen to those arrears. As far as I understand the Bill, it simply transfers to the new trustees all the rights and liabilities of the old trustees, with the exception of their qualifications.

There is another question which might well arise so far as the former trustees are concerned, that is, whether they were proper trustees, whether they had the qualifications under the 1856 Act and whether anything they purported to do was in fact ultra vires their powers under that Act. At all events, if this Bill is passed with this section in it as it now stands, being silent as to the position regarding the arrears, it simply is passing on a burden of litigation between the Counties of Mayo and Galway, without defining the position between them.

The provisions of the Bill as a whole are in direct conflict with the Report of the Drainage Commission. The Drainage Commission, in dealing with this very problem, stated in paragraph 302 of their report:—

"Several of the existing navigations are still nominally maintained, although traffic is negligible and there are no prospects of increased trade as the traffic formerly carried is now more expeditiously dealt with on the roads. To bring some of these navigations to an efficient state would now require a considerable outlay without any compensatory increase in business. The abandonment, however, of these canals or canalised rivers might in some cases leave them available for river discharge and give an increased outlet for floods; in other cases, where interference with existing water rights would not prevent it, the drying out of canals might improve adjacent lands subject to waterlogging."

Under this Bill, it is proposed to keep the canals from the navigation point of view, whereas the drainage report suggested that the canals in this particular area should be dried out, from a drainage point of view. The same report refers to the very canal dealt with under this particular Bill:—

"303. The short canal, 5/8ths of a mile in length, connecting Lough Corrib and the River Corrib with the sea, is a case in point. Over it are five swing bridges built in 1859. Two were renewed last year and the renewal of three more and of the lock gates is contemplated. The total cost of these works is from £40,000 to £50,000, although the only traffic consists of one or two pleasure boats making one passage up or down the canal each year and these boats could easily be lorried to or from the docks at very little expense. If abandoned, the canal will form a very useful drainage channel for dealing with flood discharge."

The Drainage Commission, in respect of the very canal this Bill deals with, suggests abandonment. It suggests that the canal, if used for anything, might be used for flood discharge. Although it is suggested in the Bill that some of the bridges over the canal will have to be taken over by the local authority, the canal will still have to be maintained as a canal. Certain water levels, which will affect drainage and flooding, will have to be maintained.

As far as the County Mayo is concerned, its only interest in this Bill would be on its drainage side. The navigation side of it does not affect the County Mayo at all. If the Bill goes through in its present form it will mean that it will be a hindrance, if anything, to drainage. I would suggest to the Minister that he should provide that the part of the County Mayo affected by the Bill should be transferred to the drainage authority. That, possibly, might meet the position in the County Mayo. As far as the County Mayo is concerned, there is no question of navigation there. There is an old canal that is dry. It was built in the famine times. It forms part of this canal between the Mask and the Corrib. It has been lying there, and there is no water in it. I understand that in those days they had no cement and that when the canal was opened the water disappeared through the fissures. The only time we ever hear about that canal is when somebody's cow falls into it and breaks its neck, and then there is a claim against the county council. That is part of the navigation works under this Bill in respect of which the County Mayo is being asked to make a contribution of 10 per cent. towards the cost. I understand that all the principles in the Bill affect the County Galway solely. If there is a fight between the Galway Corporation and the Galway County Council as to the cost, I do not see why that should affect the people in the County Mayo. There was never a penny spent by the former trustees of the navigation in connection with their functions in the County Mayo, and there never will be a penny spent in it under this Bill. The cost of the bridges that it is proposed to build over this canal is solely a matter for the people of Galway, and it would be absolutely unjust and inequitable if the people of the County Mayo were to be asked to make a contribution for the maintenance of bridges over a canal that is situated in the County Galway, or for the operation of that canal.

The Minister has suggested that, under the Bill, these canal bridges will be passed over to the local authority in Galway. That may be so, but the question of the maintenance of the canal will still be there. We in the County Mayo are being asked to bear 10 per cent. of the cost of the maintenance of the canal, so that if anything arises in connection with the maintenance of it, or if anything falls into it, we in the County Mayo will still be liable under the Bill for 10 per cent of the cost. So far as I know, the people to whom the canal may be of some use and who will derive any benefit from it, are not being asked to make any contribution under the Bill. I refer to the millers who use the canal. I understand there are five or six of them in Galway, and that they use the canal for power and water. There is no mention of them under the Bill. As I see it, the Bill is not wanted either by the Galway people or the Mayo people. If it is necessary to introduce this Bill for the purpose of getting rid of some legal tangle, well and good. The big objection we have to the Bill is that we cannot possibly derive any benefit from it. It does not serve any purpose as far as the County Mayo is concerned. Why, therefore, should we be asked to contribute something under this when we have absolutely no interest in it? Before the Report Stage is reached, I would ask the Minister to make further inquiries as to the old position and, on the justice of the matter, to exclude the County Mayo from the provisions of the Bill. There is no reason why we should have anything to do with it, or why we should be asked to pay anything under it.

I want to say that I will strenuously oppose any provision in the Bill which seeks to place a burden on the ratepayers of the County Mayo. The title of this measure is the Lough Corrib Navigation Bill. In the definition section we find that

"the expression `the Navigation' means the navigation in the District of Loughs Corrib, Mask and Carra in the Borough of Galway and Counties of Galway and Mayo."

There has never been a navigation system, to my certain knowledge, in the County Mayo, or even in portion of it. As the last speaker has said, an attempt was made at one time to link up the Mask and the Corrib, but because of the porous nature of the sub-soil the water went to earth, so that for almost 100 years the canal has been known as the dry canal. Is the Minister proposing to have a navigation system in the County Mayo, linking up Galway with Lough Mask and Ballina? If so, I would remind him that it is only a short time since the House voted a big sum of money to Córas Iompair Éireann for the provision of transport. Therefore, I suggest to the Minister that if he examines the matter properly he will find that a navigation system in our part of the world would be rather a flop, from the financial point of view. Under this Bill the Mayo County Council is being asked to contribute 10 per cent. of the cost of the upkeep of certain bridges. The people in County Mayo will derive no benefit whatever from that contribution, and for that reason I am opposed to this proposal. The Mayo County Council has been making a contribution for some years. I understand there are some arrears due at the moment, the payment of which has been refused by the Mayo County Council, and rightly so I would say. Under the navigation system that was carried out almost 100 years ago, weirs were made, with the result that instead of being any use their existence has caused the flooding of good land and has prevented drainage being carried out. If there was anything in the Bill which made provision for the execution of drainage works, which is a big problem with us, I would welcome the Bill heartily.

I cannot see that the County Mayo is going to derive any benefit whatever from this Bill, and for that reason I am opposed to it. The Bill seeks to place a burden on the Mayo County Council in connection with the navigation of the Corrib. I think that system has been outmoded long ago. Road transport has left it high and dry. I think it is a useless business to try to make County Mayo liable for even a small contribution under this Bill. I agree that the 10 per cent. is small, but I do not see why the County Mayo should be saddled even with that small contribution. This Bill may do a certain amount of good to Galway. This matter is one solely for the people of Galway. So far as this navigation is concerned, we in the County Mayo have been the losers up to this, and, therefore, I do not think it would be right to make us contribute to a work from which we will derive no benefit.

Obviously, Deputy Blowick completely misunderstands the purpose of the Bill. It is not proposed under this measure to construct any works or provide any navigational facilities.

Are not new bridges to be constructed?

The Lough Corrib navigation was provided from a date almost 100 years ago, and there is a board of trustees at present administering the navigation. The Mayo County Council is at present liable for the payment of 32 per cent. of the cost of administering the Lough Corrib navigation. The main effect of this Bill is to effect relief for the Mayo ratepayers. Their present liability for 32 per cent. of the cost is being reduced to 10 per cent. Deputy Moran suggests that some of the works should be abandoned. One of the purposes of this Bill is to provide a means of abandoning works not locally required, without the formality of a provisional Order confirmed by legislation. Deputy Moran suggests that the Mayo County Council contribution should be reduced below 10 per cent. If there is a case for reducing it below 10 per cent., then this Bill provides power to amend further the proportion of the total cost to be paid by the various contributing authorities. The Mayo County Council can make a case at any time that they wish for a further variation in the contributions, but I I think they will find that their locus standi in the matter will be seriously impaired so long as their past contributions are in arrears. The obligation of the Mayo County Council to pay the contribution under the existing navigation award is a legal obligation, and the Mayo County Council cannot escape that obligation merely by deciding not to pay. Most of us would avoid paying our debts by that method if it could be so simply adopted.

It is admitted that the present board of trustees is not constituted in accordance with what would be regarded as modern requirements. The qualifications required for membership are now almost impossible and, therefore, we are proposing in the Bill to alter the qualifications for membership of the board. It is not correct that, as Deputy Moran said, Mayo County Council has no representative on the board. Two of the present trustees are resident in County Mayo. There are four vacancies on the board, and the new board as constituted under this Bill will include, we hope, a representative of the Mayo contributing area.

The Bill provides for the transfer of any portion of the works to a drainage authority. It provides for the transfer of portion of the works to a local authority if that appears to be a suitable arrangement. It provides also for the abandonment of the works if it is clear that they are no longer required. This navigation was at one time more important than it is now, but, until other arrangements for dealing with it have been made, its administration by the board of trustees must be maintained. The purpose of this Bill is to reconstitute the board of trustees with new qualifications and on a different basis, and to provide for a variation in the proportion in which the expenses of the trustees are defrayed by the contributing authorities. The effect of the change is to increase substantially the proportion of the expenses to be met by Galway City, and to decrease substantially the proportion to be met by County Mayo. Galway City in the past contributed 16 per cent; in future the contribution will be 60 per cent. Mayo County Council contributed in the past 32 per cent.; in future they will contribute only 10 per cent.

Deputy Moran stated that there is no mention in the Bill of charges upon persons using the canals for power or water purposes. It is not necessary to have any such mention in the Bill, inasmuch as the board of trustees has power to collect tolls and other charges for services rendered, and its powers in that regard are not being amended by the Bill in any way whatever. I think, therefore, that the objections to the Bill are founded largely upon misunderstanding. So long as the navigation remains there, untransferred to a drainage authority or not abandoned, some provision must be made for maintaining it. The responsibility of maintaining it rests upon the board of trustees. The effect of the Bill is to reconstitute the board of trustees upon a more representative basis, and to vary the extent of the contributions which have to be made to the expenses of the board by the contributing authorities. It operates to relieve County Mayo of its former obligation; it effects a substantial reduction in that obligation, and ensures for them representation upon the board in proportion to their contribution.

Perhaps it will save discussion on other sections if I ask the Minister a further question. Mayo is interested, as I said, solely in the drainage side of this matter. The Bill provides that those works can be handed over to other bodies such as a drainage authority, but the Bill also provides that that must be with the consent of the drainage authority. In the case of a white elephant such as this, it is quite possible that nobody would want to take it over. The drainage authority might refuse to take it over. Could the Minister see his way to make provision cutting out the consent of the drainage authority, so that those works might be transferred to the drainage authority without making their consent, as it were, a condition precedent? The drainage authority might adopt the view—I could quite understand it—that they do not want to take over canals or waterways that might be very expensive and might not fit in with their ideas of national drainage.

If the works or any portion of the works are of interest to the drainage authority, I do not think there will be any difficulty in effecting an agreement for the transfer. If they are of no interest to the drainage authority, and of no interest to the contributing local authority, then provision is made in the Bill for their abandonment. I think no further provision is required.

Question put and agreed to.
Sections 2 to 17 inclusive, and the Title, put and agreed to.
Bill reported without amendment.
Report Stage ordered for to-morrow, Thursday, 25th October.
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