asked the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs if he will state whether the Government have made any regulations as to the standard of political conduct to be required of persons before they will be permitted to broadcast from Radio Éireann either as (a) announcers; (b) comperes; (c) lecturers, or (d) in any other capacity; the date upon which any such regulations were made, the persons making the regulations and the statutory or other authority under which the regulations were made.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Radio Éireann Broadcasts.
asked the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs if he will state for what reason be has intimated to the Irish Tourist Board Association that he will not permit Mr. Noel Hartnett to continue to compere the series of "Question Time" broadcasts from Radio Eireann arranged by the association.
I propose with your permission a Chinn Chomhairle, to take Questions Nos. 7 and 8 together.
Why?
Mr. Hartnett speaking at a recent political meeting——
Why?
Why? On a point of order, Sir, may I ask whether the Minister has your permission to take Questions Nos. 7 and 8 together.
It is not a matter for the Chair to give permission if the two are linked together.
They are not.
If so, I am not asking Question No. 8 to-day, Sir.
It is down for answer to-day. You have no choice in the matter.
Why not answer them separately? He wants to evade the issue.
He need not answer them at all.
It would not surprise me if he did not.
If the Deputy is not satisfied he cannot have his reply.
Mr. Hartnett, speaking at a recent political meeting, defamed the Government of his own country by calling them "Belsen Camp gaolers". If Mr. Hartnett were retained as compere, that defamation could be circulated abroad as having the authority of the Irish Tourist Association. In the circumstances, there was no alternative to the course taken.
It is a well-known rule in the Civil Service that State employees shall not participate in political activities. Announcers being State employees are governed by this rule. As regards comperes and lecturers, the same restrictions do not, of course, apply. But it is obvious that if Radio Éireann is to serve the interests of the country and of its listening public, persons engaging in violent controversy likely to arouse widespread hostility should not be employed. Mr. Hartnett's defamatory and subversive remarks have aroused bitter and widespread resentment.
Will the Minister now answer Question No. 7, which I have intimated is the only one I am asking to-day?
I think I have answered the question.
Not at all.
Question No. 7 asked whether regulations had been made regarding certain matters governing the working of Radio Éireann, and under what statutory, or other authority, such regulations have been made, and the time at which they were made.
The rules governing the station are made under the Act by which the station was established as a Government - controlled broadcasting station.
Arising out of the reply given by the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs, may I, as one who detests the political convictions as expressed by Mr. Hartnett, inquire whether it is proper if a person so conducts himself in public as not to render himself liable to the criminal law, for the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs to go to his employer, because the employee has offended the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs, and that his employer should thereupon deprive such employee of his job? Is that right? I submit, with respect, Sir, that the Minister is under an obligation to answer the query—is that in conformity with the moral law, or with the minimum of civil liberty, to which a citizen of this country is entitled no matter how strongly we may condemn that citizen's views and political activities?
The Deputy is making a speech.
The Deputy's question has really nothing to do with the case. The fact is that we either broadcast or we do not. In this particular instance we said we would not broadcast if Mr. Hartnett compered the programme.
Has Mr. Hartnett ever said anything while broadcasting from Radio Éireann which was of an improper character or a contravention of the established rules of Radio Éireann? If he has done so, I agree with the Minister's action. If he has not done so, then I ask why should he be deprived of his employment and why should his Minister appeal to his employer to dismiss him because he said something which vexed the Minister, but which the Minister himself admits was not a breach of the law? How can you justify that?
I did not ask his employer to dismiss him. I simply said that he would not go on the air.
Did you not say to the Irish Tourist Association, "if you do not dismiss Mr. Hartnett you will not be allowed to broadcast"?
You will not go on the air—that is all.
You will not be allowed to broadcast. I respectfully ask the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs how he can reconcile that with any breach of the criminal law——
The Deputy is repeating himself.
Can he reconcile that with the moral law or with the minimum of civil liberty——
That is a repetition of a Supplementary Question.
Can he answer that? Will he answer that?
Arising out of the Minister's reply, are we to take it that this is a new rule?
It is not a new rule.
Am I to take it that this is a rule governing all State employees? Does it apply to all employees in every Department or only to officials of the Department of Posts and Telegraphs?
It applies to every official in all Departments and it always did. There is a Finance Circular on the matter.
Mr. Hartnett is not a civil servant. On this occasion he was an employee of the Irish Tourist Association.
The Minister would be well advised to take up the matter of these officials particularly in the West.
When the House calms down, Sir, we will raise this matter on another occasion.